@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @MikeB On the new 360 250GB model's new sound it is slightly less. Here's one test . The unit saw a 5dB drop, fairly good. Certainly still not PS3 level which is about 10dB queiter still. Nor at the Wii level which is even quieter than the PS3. BTW - Microsoft should come up with a clever name for this unit. They are just calling it the 360. I suppose it makes sense since it is now the only unit being produced. Slim makes no sense it's not really slim. Perhaps short? I like the 'StealhXbox' that some have been using. I don't know if the new 360 will be more sturdy. How are you measuring this? Typically a curve is a stronger structure than a square. Though placing weights on a curve is tricker as it requires more even balancing of the object. Under what weight does your PS3 collapse?

How about XBox-mini?

Sony exec makes another dumb statement along the lines like "rumble and motion controls can't co-exist" when Sony left out rumble on Sixaxis...

http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-portable-3d-is-imprecise

Says "portable 3D is imprecise"...

Fail.

Tech demo of the 3DS gpu.
http://kotaku.com/5568456/meet-the-3ds-graphics-chip

Seems the rumors MikeB posted were true. Either way, I'm suitably impressed.

Sucker Punch comments on the Cell's SPUs:

Quote:

Fleming described the SPUs that make up the much-lauded Cell processor that powers the PS3 as "unbelievable". "The SPUs kick ass," he said. "Move your #### there! The SPUs are just total monsters. You just have to move more and more and more and more and more stuff there. We have post-processing graphics passes going on in the SPUs. We have more particle stuff, more collision and physics stuff going on in there. They're unbelievable." And there's more to come from the PS3, according to Fleming. "At some point everybody figures out most of the big stuff," he said. "But we're still figuring out big stuff. There was a check-in today - I sent a mail about it - that was great. There was a big improvement in the performance of our light renderers - that was another thing we figured out, today. Bill Rockenbeck [programmer] back at the office - kudos to Bill by the way - he made a great check-in today taking advantage of some new stuff that we hadn't figured out before."

source

Related: Infamous 2 trailer

@Lou

Quote:

Sony exec makes another dumb statement along the lines like "rumble and motion controls can't co-exist" when Sony left out rumble on Sixaxis... http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-portable-3d-is-imprecise Says "portable 3D is imprecise"...

First of all Sony stated rumble interferes with the motion controls, that's not the same as what you claim here. It's not impossible, but requires more design R&D.

I am looking forward to the 3DS, but what he clarifies in your link seems to be correct. For some people the 3DS will not work at all, for all others the 3D effect will only work while keeping still in a certain position.

Also the 3D effect is somewhat different, you probably won't see things floating far infront of the screen, but ratherlooks like the screen provides more depth (like looking through a window).

@Lou

Quote:

Sony exec makes another dumb statement along the lines like "rumble and motion controls can't co-exist" when Sony left out rumble on Sixaxis... http://www.edge-online.com/news/sony-portable-3d-is-imprecise Says "portable 3D is imprecise"... Fail.

Seems that Nintendo tackled this problem using KISS methodology. A simple slider adjusts the depth of the 3D.

The other thing Sony was right about was someone inventing 3D TV w/o the glasses. The Kinect was discussed by Microsoft as being able to determine distance and head movements in such as way they could track glassless 3D. Though this feature is one I doubt will be perfected or we'll see this console generation.

@BrianK

That's not the same as stereoscopic 3D (for example snowflakes in front of the display), you are referring to the 3D effect experienced by head tracking (output relative to your position). There was a tech demo I linked to early with regard to this on the Playstation eye. Gran Turismo 5 is thought to be using such tech.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: First of all Sony stated rumble interferes with the motion controls, that's not the same as what you claim here. It's not impossible, but requires more design R&D.

No, it was just another similarly flat out dumb statement Sony makes when it lacks a feature it's competitors have. We all remember the lawsuit regarding licensing of rumble. Please don't paint a different picture of the situtation. Once the pie was in their face, they paid up and included it in the DS3 controller.

Quote:

That's not the same as stereoscopic 3D (for example snowflakes in front of the display), you are referring to the 3D effect experienced by head tracking (output relative to your position). There was a tech demo I linked to early with regard to this on the Playstation eye. Gran Turismo 5 is thought to be using such tech.

As the 3DS has a camera facing the user, head tracking is possible with facial/head recognition software.

The Wii can do head tracking using a 2nd Wii Remote and 2 LED's mounted on a pair of glasses as Johnny Lee demonstrated. Recall the WiiRemote is an infra-red camera. It was supposed to be a feature of BoomBlox but was cut at the last minute.

Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2010 at 03:34 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 21-Jun-2010 at 03:31 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

That's not the same as stereoscopic 3D (for example snowflakes in front of the display), you are referring to the 3D effect experienced by head tracking (output relative to your position). There was a tech demo I linked to early with regard to this on the Playstation eye. Gran Turismo 5 is thought to be using such tech.

The Kinect was discussed as being part of the system that would enable glassless stereoscopic 3D. It would track the angle of your your vision to the screen. In turn the system would calculate the proper angle for each eye to create the 3D picture and in turn output the 'dual' image. As I said I don't expect it this gen.

The Kinect may form part of the hardware layer for the foundation of stereoscopic 3D in the 9th Gen Microsoft console.

EDIT: Found one article on this LINK "The 3D display uses a camera to track viewers so that it knows where to steer the light; the idea isn't new, but the required CPU power is now affordable and small enough to pull it off on a large scale. " -- The Natal, now Kinect, was used to acheive this.

Last edited by BrianK on 21-Jun-2010 at 04:44 PM.

Some good infomation on 3D. A good read if one wants to understand how this all works.

EDIT: How much content is out there? In 2008 5 3D Movies were released in theaters. In 2009 - 17. In 2010 - 21. (via www.3dmovielist.com) This doesn't include IMAX or short films.

The number of titles is way below what the first 3 years of HD-DVD had available. I believe LaserDisc had more titles too in their first 3 years. Luckily 3D doesn't have a competitor.

Last edited by BrianK on 21-Jun-2010 at 10:31 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 21-Jun-2010 at 08:45 PM.

Quote:

“I have to refrain from talking specifically about the price point,” he said. “What I can confirm is that, in terms of the production costs, it will cost more than the costs for the Nintendo DS today. Having said that, we believe we will produce enough value worthy of the production cost. We do not think we have to sell the products below cost.”

In an interview with Venturebeat, Iwata says the 3DS will not be sold at a loss and in all territories by March 2011.

So figure $200-$250.

Interesting:
http://kotaku.com/5569435/why-is-nintendo-doing-3d-now

Quote:

The GameCube, which launched in 2001, actually had 3D capable internal circuitry. "We did experiment with 3D games being shown on a [separate] 3D LCD display and it was working. But the display was very expensive, so we did not think it practical or reasonable to offer this as a product," Nintendo president Satoru Iwata told the Nikkei.

This means the Wii may contain the same circuitry since they are practically the same hardware...

Nice to see the PS3 playing catch-up to the Gamecube with regards to 3D.

@BrianK

In any case the 3D effect for me is far superior on LCD 3DTVs compared to in the cinema. It feels far more natural to me. The brightness is a lot better, things pop out better and when you move your head the perspective changes.

I think it will rock to play Killzone 3 in 3D standing in front of the screen with a Playstation move controller.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK In any case the 3D effect for me is far superior on LCD 3DTVs compared to in the cinema. It feels far more natural to me. The brightness is a lot better, things pop out better and when you move your head the perspective changes. I think it will rock to play Killzone 3 in 3D standing in front of the screen with a Playstation move controller.

I bet it will be!

Now Imagine DOOM4 played this way...

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK In any case the 3D effect for me is far superior on LCD 3DTVs compared to in the cinema. It feels far more natural to me. The brightness is a lot better, things pop out better and when you move your head the perspective changes. I think it will rock to play Killzone 3 in 3D standing in front of the screen with a Playstation move controller.

For atleast the last couple of years, LCD's have been supporting an *over-bright* mode and this may be why Sony's method of 3D is now plausible, because the brightness is indeed halved. But hey, if the TV's can be twice as bright then 3D will look normal.

PC graphics cards have been supporting this *over-brightness* as well and that's how they make my weapon enchants in World of Warcraft glow.

@MikeB

Quote:

In any case the 3D effect for me is far superior on LCD 3DTVs compared to in the cinema. It feels far more natural to me. The brightness is a lot better, things pop out better and when you move your head the perspective changes.

Perhaps compared to the red/blue glasses 3D I agree. Did you see Avatar, for example, in 3D using the polarized lenses in a movie theater? Or IMAX in 3D? I'd put IMAX above any LCD.

I find little positives in 3D. Having to wear glasses myself then putting on a 2nd pair of glasses makes this an uncomfortable venture. When friends view movies it's a social event. We've noticed the red/blue glasses somehow put up a mental wall that the group doesn't feel as much together. Sure "Cloudy with a chance of Meatballs" may be killer in 3D and I have the PS3, but my 4 year old will live if I don't spend $4K on a 3DTV and glasses for the family . There needs to be a killer app for the technology. IMO it's too early for one to exist. Outside of Avatar every 3D I've seen is gimmicky.

I don't believe I'm the only one. Gizmodo had a poll on which is less interesting to their readers 3D or new controllers (move/kinect). Better than 75% of respondents said 3DTV.

Bringing it back full circle to your LCD is superior comment. The reason it might be is as your head goes out of alignment the 3D effect is lost and even worse blurring occurs. A big screen has lots of people in various distances and angles to try and accomodate. Living rooms are much smaller and thus there's less to accomodate. Taking this one step further the handheld is even closer, with an audience of 1, and people aren't moving about as much. Thusly, I suspect the 3DS will do a fairly good job at it's 3D.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/100616qa/index.html

This E3 investor Q&A is interesting. With no B.S. it shows why Nintendo is always ahead of the game.

Oh and this:

Last edited by Lou on 22-Jun-2010 at 08:03 PM.

@Lou

Worldwide the Wii is tracking behind the PS2. Not only that the PS2 still sells well today, I think its going to be on the market much longer than the Wii will be.

And of course worldwide the PS3 is tracking well above the XBox 360 and the PS1 at this point.

@Lou

The Wii has its place as a casual family device but how much use are these Wii machines actually getting? I have been depressed at the lack of software that Wii owners have. I would love to play Red Steel 2 and World at War but instead they offer Wii Sport and Raving Rabbids! The Wii to the majority of people is a family orientated gimmick with cutsey party games and this is unlikely to change as the huge hardware profits have given Nintendo and excuse to release less software! Bring on the Move and Project Natal (Kinetic my ####).

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

The Wii has its place as a casual family device but how much use are these Wii machines actually getting? I have been depressed at the lack of software that Wii owners have. I would love to play Red Steel 2 and World at War but instead they offer Wii Sport and Raving Rabbids! The Wii to the majority of people is a family orientated gimmick with cutsey party games and this is unlikely to change as the huge hardware profits have given Nintendo and excuse to release less software! Bring on the Move and Project Natal (Kinetic my ####).

Interesting BigD. It seems to me the Move and Project Natal both are positioned to as you call it move the 'family orientated gimmick with cutsey party games' to their respective consoles. For the price getting a Wii might be the more cost effective option.