@BrianK

Quote:

(SnIp for space) Hirai trying this is silly. Ken's back! @Hammer got his way Ken's back!

I thought they (Sony) "killed Kenny" (TM)(1).

1. “Crazy Ken” aka Ken Kutaragi. Some of His quotes are classic.
http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/11/vote-the-ken-ku.html
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3159047

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@MikeB

In relation to Alan Wake
http://www.digitalbattle.com/2006/09/28/stunning-alan-wake-screens-video/
The PC demo runs on Intel Core 2 Quad @3.1Ghz and NVIDIA Geforce 7900 GTX.

http://www.yougamers.com/articles/4489_remedy_interview_-_part_3_the_power_behind_wake-page4/

YouGamers: A lot of people will be wondering whether there will be a significant difference in the, for example, quality of the shadows and textures or volumetric effects between the PC and Xbox 360 versions.

Jarvilehto: The PC version will definitely be scalable - that means every PC experience will be a bit different depending on your setup, whereas the 360 is a fixed platform. So there are some differences obviously but at this stage in the development, both platforms are pretty much identical.

YouGamers: So - last two questions, we promise! The biggest things with PCs at the moment are Windows Vista and DirectX 10. Anything special for DX10?

Maki: [puts on a formal-sounding voice] We haven't announced anything for DX10 yet...

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@Hammer

Quote:

- "Can use different color space (LogLuv)".

Doesn't this comment from the 2007 presentation imply Killzone 2 probably has LogLuv HDR?

Quote:

but at this stage in the development, both platforms are pretty much identical.

Probably at a lower potential frame rate and resolution like all multi-platform 360/PC games so far. I liked Remedy's past games a lot, I hope Alan Wake lives up to expectations. But it has PS3 heavy weight competition from Uncharted 2 and Heavy Rain to worry about.

I think Killzone 2 and God of War 3 may set a new benchmark for what's expected from a high definition console game, I think this may hurt Alan Wake in terms of actual wow factor.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: Having GPU on the CPU is the future, the writing is on the wall. The question is how well will the GPU/CPU chip perform? Likely seperate CPU and GPU will perform better. If I had to bet I'd bet the Wii2 comes out with a unified GPU/CPU on day 1. If I had to bet on the Xbox3 it's these are likely to be still seperated but with plans to unify quickly to reduce costs.

The Wii already has an ARM9 in it's Hollywood 'gpu', however it's main processor is based on the PPC740CL.

What Nintendo will do next is anybody's guess. The GC/Wii architecture has been pirated to hell and back and has a large homebrew following. Nintendo will probably come up with something completely different for it's successor and offer backwards compatibility via optimized emulators like what you get with the virtual console.

@Hammer

Thanks for the quotes. The think I liked on the first link was that it linked to other quotes from Sony. Seems like Ken hasn't been the only one but Phil Harrison seemed to have his own quotes as well . "360 2SKUs confuse the consumer." Yeah confused consumers in the #2 market position. "Rumble is so last gen." Sony introduces rumble add-on.

As you said Sony "killed Kenny" they must have needed someone to fill his shoes.



@Lou

Thanks for the Wii info. It's not a platform I follow so the info is always welcome. We have way too many game consoles here already to throw a Wii into the mix. Perhaps the Wii2 depending on what that turns out to be.

@MikeB

Quote:

Doesn't this comment from the 2007 presentation imply Killzone 2 probably has LogLuv HDR?

Note "Can use different color space (LogLuv)".

Remember both LogLuv HDR and deferred rendering consumes pixel shader resource.

Quote:

Probably at a lower potential frame rate and resolution like all multi-platform 360/PC games so far.

Most likely.

Remedy was talking about the need for optimizations when targeting the Xbox 360, while PC only development promotes sloppy/lazy coding. Forced optimizations from Xbox 360 also benefits PCs with mainstream GPUs. This is important since laptops dominate the PC unit sales and most laptops can't upgrade its GPU.

The techniques like LogLuv HDR + MSAA would also benefit PCs with DX9c GPUs.

Last edited by Hammer on 27-Jan-2009 at 06:24 AM.

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@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @BrianK Quote: BrianK wrote: Having GPU on the CPU is the future, the writing is on the wall. The question is how well will the GPU/CPU chip perform? Likely seperate CPU and GPU will perform better. If I had to bet I'd bet the Wii2 comes out with a unified GPU/CPU on day 1. If I had to bet on the Xbox3 it's these are likely to be still seperated but with plans to unify quickly to reduce costs. The Wii already has an ARM9 in it's Hollywood 'gpu', however it's main processor is based on the PPC740CL. What Nintendo will do next is anybody's guess. The GC/Wii architecture has been pirated to hell and back and has a large homebrew following. Nintendo will probably come up with something completely different for it's successor and offer backwards compatibility via optimized emulators like what you get with the virtual console.

Refer to Dolphin GC/Wii emulators (for Win32 X86/X64).

With the right blue-tooth drivers, you can connect Wii-mote (a Blue-tooth device) to the PC. Wii-mote can be use as a pointer device for MS PowerPoint presentations or mouse based Win32 applications.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: @Lou With the right blue-tooth drivers, you can connect Wii-mote (a Blue-tooth device) to the PC. Wii-mote can be use as a pointer device for MS PowerPoint presentations or mouse based Win32 applications.

I am well aware of http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/



Genius!

@Hammer

Quote:

Note "Can use different color space (LogLuv)". Remember both LogLuv HDR and deferred rendering consumes pixel shader resource.

I have only read forums speculation about this so far.

Remember the RSX is more powerful than the Xenos with regard to pixel shading and the flexible Cell competent as well.

In any case one thing is for sure, Killzone 2's lighting looks amazing!

@MikeB

Quote:

Remember the RSX is more powerful than the Xenos with regard to pixel shading and the flexible Cell competent as well.

What I find interesting is real world performance vs the paper. Certainly on paper the RSX would seem to have the advantage. However, the G70s when partnered with high end CPUs proved to be in the 60-70% efficency. Likely the RSX is around this level. Reports I've read about the Xenos is that due to the more customized nature it can reach into the 90-95% efficency. In many ways the Xenos+Xenon pairing is like the 68K+paula+denise+agnes pairing.

Just an observation: Both MikeB and BrianK feel the current HD consoles somewhat compare to the Amiga (MikeB compares it to PS3, BrianK to the Xbox 360), and funnily neither are really wrong. The advances in the 360 CPU/GPU chips, as well as the vastly different Cell architecture certainly reminds one of the custom chips in the Amiga.

We have come a long way from the CPU-centric PC, that's for sure! A good thing.

Last edited by jtsiren on 28-Jan-2009 at 09:35 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Hammer Quote: Note "Can use different color space (LogLuv)". Remember both LogLuv HDR and deferred rendering consumes pixel shader resource. I have only read forums speculation about this so far. Remember the RSX is more powerful than the Xenos with regard to pixel shading

Multi-platform proves otherwise. RSX is actually weaker since G70 has a lower shader program limits, it has!@#$ shader branch unit, lack of Early-Z-Cull, lack of decoupled hardware threads dispatch unit.

Again, read http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_37100.html
Acrobat PDF's Pages 31,39, 32
Note why any peek theoretical numbers for G7X are flawed.

Even with Geforce 7900 GT's higher peek GFLOPS, my Geforce 8600 GT GDDR3 smacks it in complex shader programs.

Quote:

and the flexible Cell competent as well.

Again, it's also less specialised. Only 896 registers from 7 SPEs vs thousands for ATI Xenos, 7 SPE hardware threads vs Xenos's 64 hardware threads.

Last edited by Hammer on 28-Jan-2009 at 10:00 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 28-Jan-2009 at 09:58 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 28-Jan-2009 at 09:54 AM.

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@jtsiren

Quote:

jtsiren wrote: Just an observation: Both MikeB and BrianK feel the current HD consoles somewhat compare to the Amiga (MikeB compares it to PS3, BrianK to the Xbox 360), and funnily neither are really wrong. The advances in the 360 CPU/GPU chips, as well as the vastly different Cell architecture certainly reminds one of the custom chips in the Amiga. We have come a long way from the CPU-centric PC, that's for sure! A good thing.

PC’s GPU centric architecture started from 3DFX and Quake GL. The arrival of nVIDIA’s Geforce 256 (NV10) has shown the way on how the GPU is done.

The NV10 triggered the GPU wars between NVIDIA vs ATI and anyone else is just road kill e.g. Matrox, SIS, S3, Cirrus, 3Dlabs, ST-Micro/PowerVR, SGI and etc (add to the list).

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@BrianK

$339.99 USD Sony PS3 from Dell (click on "Click to see YOUR Price" link)

Last edited by Hammer on 28-Jan-2009 at 09:46 PM.

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@Hammer

http://www.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/sonys-slow-motion-ps3-price-cuts-sne

Quote:

Update: Sony's Slow-Motion PS3 Price Cuts (SNE) by Eric Krangel | January 27, 2009 9:47 AM Sony (SNE) cutting the price of its PS3 in slow-motion? Two weeks ago, Dell (DELL) offered the PS3 on its website for $340, including shipping, a substantial discount from the console's standard $400 price tag. Then the sale ended. Now it's back: Same terms as before, PS3 for $340. Other PS3 price cut mini-moves: A PS3-Bravia bundle at Best Buy (BBY), and we hear reports Wal-Mart (WMT) is offering a $50 gift card with a PS3 purchase. (Can anyone confirm? We don't have Wal-Marts in New York City.) We're still not sure whether the cuts are coming from Sony's side or the retailers. Sony traditionally exercises a lot of control over what it allows retailers to charge, and when we asked Sony reps about the Dell deal we never heard back. It's good Sony (appears) to have come around to the idea the premium-priced PS3 needs a price cut in a recession, but this is the wrong way to do it. With these "$50 or $60 off if you act right now!" incentives, Sony might be able to whip up a few additional sales from people who really wanted a PS3 for the holidays and didn't get one. But big-picture, Sony seriously lags behind the Xbox 360 in sales, and is getting crushed by the Wii. To use a football metaphor, Sony seems to be making an all-out ground push for another five or six yards, to get a first down and breathing room in the way of remotely respectable January sales figures. But it's already third quarter and the PS3 is several touchdowns in the hole: Sony needs to throw long with dramatic and permanent price cuts. UPDATE: An eagle-eyed commenter notes: The PS3 is $50 off at Amazon (AMZN) too. The evidence these small price cuts are a Sony initiative is piling up.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-Jan-2009 at 11:48 PM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

$339.99 USD Sony PS3 from Dell

Possibly early signs of the Sony price cut coming.

Another item may be the need to make adjustments of inventory. If I were Dell and I knew of an upcoming PS3 price cut it might make better sense to take a slight loss now. This reduces Dell inventory by getting their stock in consumer hands before other businesses post the price cut. In a downturned economy you need to do what you can to improve your business situation. Taking an early price cut may well improve Dell's position by reducing inventories before others get the chance. The other businesses are therefore less likely to move their PS3s off the shelves.

Sold to retail figures indicate at current gap between the 360 and PS3 of 6.7 million units. Not bad for the PS3 considering pricing and the 360's 1 year to several years headstart and its most anticipated games already on the market.

@MikeB

Quote:

Compared to the same quarter for 2007, PlayStation 3 sales were 4.46 million, a decrease of 44,000 units, while PSP sales were 5.08 million units, down 68,000 units. Sales of the stalwart PlayStation 2 were also in decline, down 2.88 million units to 2.52 million.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/playstation-hardware-hit-by-sales-decline

Blame the yen if you want, sales are down for the entire quarter.

@BrianK

Or Dell (and a few others) has a special deal with SCEi i.e. discount volumes.
Dell usually bargains hard with its ODM suppliers.

Last edited by Hammer on 29-Jan-2009 at 10:39 PM.

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@all

Quote:

No, Not Just America: Global PS3 Holiday Sales Down From Year Earlier (SNE) Eric Krangel | January 29, 2009 9:23 AM This blog came in for some flak from fanboys when we called Sony's (SNE) PS3 "a sinking ship" based on 2008 US sales results than were down from the same time in 2007. The criticism: America is only a slice of the world gaming pie, and we should be looking worldwide. Fair enough. But unfortunately for Sony, the PS3 is having trouble everywhere. For Q4, Sony sold 4.46 million PS3s worldwide, down 9% from the year prior, Reuters reports. In fairness to Sony, the recession is hurting everyone. Even market-leader Nintendo (NTDOY) is cutting its Wii forecasts, and the PS3 as the premium console (with premium pricing) would naturally be expected to be harder hit. But it's indulgence to wonder how the PS3 would have done better had the world economy not tanked. The recession is the reality for the forseeable future, and Sony needs to adjust. And that's means being competitive on price.

http://www.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/no-not-just-america-global-ps3-holiday-sales-down-from-year-earlier-sne

Quote:

No, Not Just The PS3: Sony's Q4 Profits Plunge 95% (SNE) Eric Krangel | January 29, 2009 9:53 AM Sony's (SNE) vaunted PS3 may be having trouble, with global Q4 sales down 9% from last year, but that's only part of Sony's worries. The company reported its Q4 net profit is down 95% from the year before as all units struggled. Particularly troublesome for Sony (other than the PS3): Bravia HDTVs, which are overpriced relative to the competition and selling poorly.

http://www.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/no-not-just-the-ps3-sonys-q4-profits-plunge-95-sne

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 30-Jan-2009 at 02:37 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 30-Jan-2009 at 02:35 AM.

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