@MikeB

Quote:

"Right now, Kinect only works when you stand. This includes menu navigation. All the cool options to grab a slider and advance through frames of a movie you are watching only work when you are on your feet." If true I they are further behind with development than I thought. (let allone the MIA Milo stuff). What's your perspective on this?

Microsoft Executive Aaron Greenberg confirmed that the Kinect is playable sitting down or standing up. "Yes you can sit or stand with Kinect, depends on the game or experience. "

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Lou The Wii has its place as a casual family device but how much use are these Wii machines actually getting? I have been depressed at the lack of software that Wii owners have. I would love to play Red Steel 2 and World at War but instead they offer Wii Sport and Raving Rabbids! The Wii to the majority of people is a family orientated gimmick with cutsey party games and this is unlikely to change as the huge hardware profits have given Nintendo and excuse to release less software! Bring on the Move and Project Natal (Kinetic my ####).

What does that mean?
If you want to play Red Steel 2, then go right ahead. Same with WaW.
There's plenty of good games on the Wii, despite the picture MikeB paints.

I don't understand...does someone serve you games and only casual ones at that?

Did you know CoD:Black Ops is also being released for Wii?

I don't understand why the majority of games being family-fun oriented should turn you off. The Wii's library is over 500 games. I could name 50 hardcore titles off the top of my head. However, I can't afford 50 titles...nor have the time to play them all. So again, I don't see a problem with the Wii's library.

Other than some Sony-made games, most PS3 games are cross-platform or better on PC/360.

With the 360, most games are FPS. There are some that are not that are really well, then there's some 3rd person action adventure games that are over the shoulder and practically FPS anyway. It's a platform that lacks diversity and is countering that with Kinect, which targets strictly casuals.

Too me, Wii offers a diverse library, and that's why it continues to sell. It can please all gamers. Most people have PC's and can get their HD-gaming fix from that.

Now that Sony and MS are catching up with diversity by catering to casuals, I still see them as costing too much. A Wii is $150 and $200 is you want the WiiSports Resort + Motion Plus bundle. Still way cheaper than 360+Kinect and PS3+Move.

Good games like Red Steel 2 do not look like PS2 games at all. Not even close.
Red Steel 2 really shows what the Wii is capable of when developers actually spend 2 years developing a title for the Wii. Monster Hunter 3 as well.

@Lou

Quote:

With the 360, most games are FPS. There are some that are not that are really well, then there's some 3rd person action adventure games that are over the shoulder and practically FPS anyway. It's a platform that lacks diversity and is countering that with Kinect, which targets strictly casuals

I'd add this is a preception more so than reality. A few pages back MikeB made a similar charge. In the top 25 best selling games the 360 has 2 more FPS than the PS3, according to NPD. NPD doesn't count online Arcade game sales. Uno and one other by sales would fall into the Top 25 best sellers which in turn drops off 2 FPS and equals the PS3. According to Microsoft's webpage the 360 has 1314 games. The causal gamer has lots to choose from, especially in the Arcade area. Including some excellent board games such as Catan, Ticket to Ride, and Hasbro Family area. I see 'casual' as something Microsoft has failed to market well.

Quote:

Now that Sony and MS are catching up with diversity by catering to casuals, I still see them as costing too much.

I agree. Casual gamers don't want to spend big dollars on their games. $299 is the Arcade bundle w/ Kinect and the lowest entry price of the HD consoles.. It's 50% more than the Wii. If HD exists in the home I can see that being fairly attractive. If no HD, the Wii is going to win out for the casual gamer.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: [...] I agree. Casual gamers don't want to spend big dollars on their games. $299 is the Arcade bundle w/ Kinect and the lowest entry price of the HD consoles.. It's 50% more than the Wii. If HD exists in the home I can see that being fairly attractive. If no HD, the Wii is going to win out for the casual gamer.

Not only for the casual gamer... I consider myself an hardcore gamer, but I still have a PAL TV. If I ever wish to put a Playstation3 near my Wii I have to think about purchasing a HD TV and switching my Sky (Sat. TV) subscription from normal to HD.
That scores around 1000-1200 ¤ for a good (not excellent, just good) TV.
From then on I'll most probably be tempted to buy BlueRay movies instead of DVD ones (You can find DVD movies below 10¤ in Italy) to better use my new TV... another increased cost.

You see, I think another reason of success for the Wii is that HD TV is not yet the in every home and not everybody is willing to change TV in order to properly view Playstation3 games.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@ErikBauer

Quote:

You see, I think another reason of success for the Wii is that HD TV is not yet the in every home and not everybody is willing to change TV in order to properly view Playstation3 games.

I agree that both the 360 and PS3 have oversold the HD gaming. It has indeed given Wii an advantage from a marketing perspective. I know various people that use the 360 and PS3 on SDTV. It works and the gaming experience is good.

I think your post highlights further why 3DTV marketing today isn't as advantageous. The HDTV is making inroads into the mainstream. 3DTV is barely out and only the Tech Elite are going to fork over the extra $2K for a capable set and glasses. This puts marketing of 3DTV gaming to a sector which Sony has already wrapped up. I think the ROI is very low if not negative for Sony to pursue this option at this time.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: With the 360, most games are FPS. There are some that are not that are really well, then there's some 3rd person action adventure games that are over the shoulder and practically FPS anyway. It's a platform that lacks diversity and is countering that with Kinect, which targets strictly casuals I'd add this is a preception more so than reality. A few pages back MikeB made a similar charge. In the top 25 best selling games the 360 has 2 more FPS than the PS3, according to NPD. NPD doesn't count online Arcade game sales. Uno and one other by sales would fall into the Top 25 best sellers which in turn drops off 2 FPS and equals the PS3. According to Microsoft's webpage the 360 has 1314 games. The causal gamer has lots to choose from, especially in the Arcade area. Including some excellent board games such as Catan, Ticket to Ride, and Hasbro Family area. I see 'casual' as something Microsoft has failed to market well.

The Wii also has plenty of good FPS games and I prefer FPS games on the Wii just because of the controls as I feel mouse movements can overcompensate where as direct Wii-pointing is way more accurate. Also, no carpal-tunnel syndrome in my wrist from too much mouse action.

However, I don't play many FPS games anymore. Did on the GC and got bored with the same old - same old. Metroid series, Deus Ex(PC) and Red Steel (1&2) have held my attention. I did finish a couple of Medal of Honor games on the GC. Started CoD2 on 360 but it didn't grab me right away.

I think I did beat Medal of Honor:Heroes 2 on the Wii as well. That game had great graphics and controls. I should ebay it now...

Last edited by Lou on 23-Jun-2010 at 04:15 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @ErikBauer Quote: You see, I think another reason of success for the Wii is that HD TV is not yet the in every home and not everybody is willing to change TV in order to properly view Playstation3 games. I agree that both the 360 and PS3 have oversold the HD gaming. It has indeed given Wii an advantage from a marketing perspective. I know various people that use the 360 and PS3 on SDTV. It works and the gaming experience is good. I think your post highlights further why 3DTV marketing today isn't as advantageous. The HDTV is making inroads into the mainstream. 3DTV is barely out and only the Tech Elite are going to fork over the extra $2K for a capable set and glasses. This puts marketing of 3DTV gaming to a sector which Sony has already wrapped up. I think the ROI is very low if not negative for Sony to pursue this option at this time.

Yes, exactly

Last edited by ErikBauer on 23-Jun-2010 at 03:42 PM.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@MikeB

It's great that PS3 is selling more, however, 360/PS3 simply fight over the same consumers.

Since we all love pictures:

@Lou

You may be right about the Wii being characterized as casual even though it has some AAA FPS games.

What I find interesting is the chart you posted by Nintendo. I think it does illustrate the pull of SDTV. Does 'other home' include PS2 as well? Either way I think it's clear that SD is winning the 7th Gen war. Pulling past HD to 3DTV is certainly is only of interest in the tech elite crowd which more often then not already has one of the two 7th Gen consoles.

One marketing push the 360 and PS3 haven't done is push how they are SD capable. Now that they are gunning for the casual gamer with the Move and Kinect perhaps they should throw in, we can do this on your SD set too.

@Lou

Quote:

There's plenty of good games on the Wii, despite the picture MikeB paints.

You better quote me on this instead, because I think your imagination is running wild yet again.

I have indeed said the Wii is specced more like a last gen console (please don't mix the two up like that). Although I admit the bulk of Wii games out there aren't interesting to me personally (they aren't geared towards my age group or type of gamer, so that's no surprise at all). I never stated such games aren't any good and actually the PS2 also has a good games library.

Actually I think the Mario series is probably the best and most popular game series out there, some really awesome games geared at all ages.

I don't understand why you continue doing this.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: There's plenty of good games on the Wii, despite the picture MikeB paints. You better quote me on this instead, because I think your imagination is running wild yet again. I have indeed said the Wii is specced more like a last gen console (please don't mix the two up like that). Although I admit the bulk of Wii games out there aren't interesting to me personally (they aren't geared towards my age group or type of gamer, so that's no surprise at all). I never stated such games aren't any good and actually the PS2 also has a good games library. Actually I think the Mario series is probably the best and most popular game series out there, some really awesome games geared at all ages. I don't understand why you continue doing this.

You just insulted the Wii right there saying it's specc'ed like a last gen console, yet last gen consoles didn't have 802.11g, motion controls, built-in flash memory, USB ports, IR cameras built into controllers, wireless controllers from launch or a Virtual Console.

I said it's a picture you paint...and continue to paint. There is far more quality stuff to the console than Mario.

The fact of the matter is the Treyarch-developed CoD games are on Wii, Infinity Ward refused to do Wii development. The Wii is capable of any genre and only 3rd parties' incapable hands have hurt its image, not it's system specs whatever you may think of them.

I don't understand why you continue to do this.

Last edited by Lou on 24-Jun-2010 at 12:47 PM.

@BrianK

http://www.edge-online.com/news/kinect-technology-coming-to-pc-and-tv

Everything ends up on PC eventually.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou You may be right about the Wii being characterized as casual even though it has some AAA FPS games. What I find interesting is the chart you posted by Nintendo. I think it does illustrate the pull of SDTV. Does 'other home' include PS2 as well? Either way I think it's clear that SD is winning the 7th Gen war. Pulling past HD to 3DTV is certainly is only of interest in the tech elite crowd which more often then not already has one of the two 7th Gen consoles. One marketing push the 360 and PS3 haven't done is push how they are SD capable. Now that they are gunning for the casual gamer with the Move and Kinect perhaps they should throw in, we can do this on your SD set too.

Wasn't it CliffyB that said less that half of Gears owners played it in HD?

On another note...
I'm looking forward to TGS in Sept so see what Nintendo left out of E3. They already said Pikmin 3 and Vitality Sensor will be shown in 'another venue'. I'd like to see some tweaked Wii hardware with:

-802.11N upgrade
-16GB flashram (up from 512MB)
-REL-036 controllers
-perhaps even a DSi-like upgrade with a faster processor and even more internal frame buffer ram to dispay things like Netflix in HD.
-HDMI port

I've been using Netflix on my Wii and the quality is great. It looks just like a true DVD image... Which means the Wii is capable of good visuals.

@Lou

Quote:

You just insulted the Wii right there saying it's specc'ed like a last gen console

OK if you think that's an insult, the PS2 is even less powerful and let's not get starting with the PS1 (such a Playstation basher I am...).

Just provide me credit where due. For example for calling the Wii last-gen-like specced with for example its lowly clocked single core CPU. I'll gladly take credit for that, but claiming I claim Wii (or PS2/PS1/etc) games suck, you're being dishonest. Please stop that.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: You just insulted the Wii right there saying it's specc'ed like a last gen console OK if you think that's an insult, the PS2 is even less powerful and let's not get starting with the PS1 (such a Playstation basher I am...).

But the PS2 IS a last gen console. So once again an insult.
The PS2 isn't even counted in NPD sales anymore. However, didn't Sony finally start selling it in Korea or something. It's like to manage 1k sales in Japan each week as well and those are probably just to replace broken units.

What cracks me up is you come here and state you don't care about PS2 backwards compatibility, all you care about is PS3, but every chance you get, you chime in with how the PS2 is still selling and that helps Sony and the Wii has PS2 graphics.

Yes, the Wii gets PS2 graphics because they were using the same art assets for cross-platform Wii/PS2/PSP ports. PS2/PSP is the lowest common denominator. Heck, the PS2 can't even play RE4 in widescreen format and it's simply ugly compared to the Wii version.

PS2 could not run Red Steel 2, Monster Hunter 3 in all their graphical fidelity and framerate along with numerous other Wii games.

Quote:

Just provide me credit where due. For example for calling the Wii last-gen-like specced with for example its lowly clocked single core CPU. I'll gladly take credit for that, but claiming I claim Wii (or PS2/PS1/etc) games suck, you're being dishonest. Please stop that.

'lowly' huh? I never said that you said they suck. I said you paint a bad picture, which you continue to do with such snide remarks.

You're being dishonest. Please stop that.

Further proof that Move doesn't have pointer functionality:

http://kotaku.com/5571555/resident-evil-5-with-move-controls-better-than-youd-think

Quote:

The controls are reminiscent of the ones for the Wii version of Resident Evil 4. Players aim and shoot with the Move controller. While aiming (holding down the Move controller's trigger), players can fire by pressing the Move button and reload by shaking the controller. Shaking the controller while out of aiming mode produces a melee attack. The Nave controller controls character movement. Of course, the "standard" Resident Evil 5 controls offer more precise aiming, so I'd be hesitant to take them into a multiplayer situation

The reviewer claims that the standard RE5 controls are more accurate.
Everyone knows the Wii version of RE4 was praised for it's pointer-perfect controls.

I mean, surely the almighty PS3 can do everything the Wii can and more, right?

Sony dropped the sphere with Move. Err, I mean ball.

Reminds me of a song...
"Here it comes to save the day! It's Gyro-mouse on it's way!"

@Lou

Quote:

I don't understand...does someone serve you games and only casual ones at that?

You know when you used to play on your mates A500 and it made you want one? That was my experience; it became obvious to me around the time of Lemmings that the Amiga had something that my Atari ST just didn't!

The Wii is a PS2 on steroids. The problem is I don't need the steroids especially when they are served up with the sort of dross I'm exposed to when I go round my friends' houses in 2009/10 and they don't have World at War (WaW) or Red Steel 2 but only Wii Sports and Rabbids!

I know these are different times but I have not been won over by my experience of the Wii! I would also love to try Metroid but don't know anyone that owns it! 'WaW' was fun as was Mario Kart but they are not killer apps and my interest has waned. Bring on Twisted Metal on the PS3 and I'd be sold on the Sony console (if the game is anything like TM:Black)

The majority of Wiis ARE used to entertain kids and sadly their owners have no interest in hard-core games! Less interest/sales = less shelf space for decent games and less decent games! Not interested!

Last edited by BigD on 24-Jun-2010 at 03:54 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Lou

Quote:

The PS2 isn't even counted in NPD sales anymore.

I don't care what the NPD does or doesn't do. The PS2 outsold the XBox 360 worldwide last quarter, so it's a current gen console from the sales perspective. They are still sold everywhere around here.

From a tech perspective both Wii and PS2 are IMO lastgen technology. Someone may get the bright idea to relaunch a c64 (already done in the form of an all-in-one controller) or Snes, it may even sell extremely well if bundled with a new game like a 'Super Mario World deluxe', but still I won't consider the specifications current gen.

Wireless controllers, we had them in the distant past. I had two with antennas a very long time ago (though I mostly used extension cables due to battery usage). Motion control gaming, headtracking, stereoscopic 3D, etc were pioneered in the late 80s for gaming.

In the past generations were often clasified by 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit CPUs, nowadays this is a lot more blurry as many new factors such as multi-CPU design, storage media, etc play an important role technicaly.

@MikeB

Do you ever post to any other thread except a consoles one?

_________________
Amiga A1200, 3.1 ROMs, Blizzard 1230 MKIV 64MB & FPU, 4GB DoM SSD, Workbench 3.1

@A1200

Yes, but I keep a low profile for now with regard to Amiga topics.