@MikeB

PSN Network 'down' for GTA IV. Or more properly perhaps it's GTA servers...

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote: @Samwel Quote: Samwel wrote: @Lou What's wrong with giving users the option of using sixaxis motion control if they like??? It's not like they have to if they don't want to. That's just it, I don't believe the motion controls for the helicopter and such are an option...I could be wrong...the review didn't mention being able to switch to analog... This is a mistake alot of early Wii games made as well...

As well as PS3 games. If a game has both - use normal controls or motion, no problem, but abuse of 6-Axis is sole reason I completed 99% but not 100% of Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

First impressions after a couple of hours play...

The quality of the scripting and character development is the best bit about it right now. They may have set a new benchmark for gaming with the subtlety and depth of Nico's character. It shows up the storylines in most games for what they are - cliche-ridden sub-movie fare which falls neatly into genres like fantasy, sci-fi, etc. This game has an adult storyline in the best sense of the word.

Vehicle handling is little bit better and requires a little bit more restraint on the accelerator. Shooting is much improved. Sound is as always the really defining characteristic of the atmosphere in GTA, right back to GTA 1.

Graphics are a bit disappointing. I don't know whether it's just me, but there seemed to be a difference between the really early glimpses of GTA4 and what they showed after announcing the 6 month delay.

If my mate buy a PS3 for this, I'll have to get him to try it on my TV. I suspect this game isn't going to wow in the way that I hoped. I was disappointed to see that grass had the familiar repeated squares of grass pattern that was in the original GTA4. When you see the quality of the water in the bay, it's a shame they couldn't have stopped the grass looking like a MacOS 7 desktop pattern.

One thing about Liberty City in GTA 3 is that they started you in the most interesting part of the city. In this game, I suspect that's going to be the Manhattan island, so that's a big incentive to keep playing....

Which is what I'm going to do right now!

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 29-Apr-2008 at 10:28 PM.

@wegster, Lou

I read that GTAIV has the option to set each type of vehicle and weapon to to
use sixaxis motion control or analog. So if you like some things with motion
control and not others, then fine no problem.
So best of both worlds..

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote: @wegster, Lou I read that GTAIV has the option to set each type of vehicle and weapon to to use sixaxis motion control or analog. So if you like some things with motion control and not others, then fine no problem. So best of both worlds..

Sure, no problems there, that wasn't aimed at GTA, just any game that offers only motion controls where regular controls would do fine...are annoying as Hell, and usually 'gimmicky' and annoying.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

just any game that offers only motion controls where regular controls would do fine...are annoying as Hell,

LAIR has been patched.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @wegster Quote: just any game that offers only motion controls where regular controls would do fine...are annoying as Hell, LAIR has been patched.

Yep, but the game still, well, sucks.
The controls bothered some, they were fine for me, just lacking gameplay. I'll try it again at some point, maybe.

I still think it's a good move by them, because there are people who enjoy the game, but hate the controls. Actually, I think most that like the game don't have control issues, but mostly new users...so maybe a few new buyers will like it? It's a bit late, but at least maybe they'll remember that for Lair 2, if there is one.

Last edited by wegster on 30-Apr-2008 at 07:40 AM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster & Samwel

I agree, I just didn't get that analog controls were an option from the early reviews I read...

Here is a Nega-review of the game:
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/29/nega-review-grand-theft-auto-iv/
Some remarks:
Quote:

"It's not like previous GTAs, or most other sequels, where there are new stand-out features that you can easily discuss and rate." (4) "GTA IV [actually] reduces the amount of activities when compared to the previous game, San Andreas. You cannot go the gym to beef up Niko's muscles. And eating a ton of cheeseburgers won't turn you into a massive, wobbly mound of lard." (3) "You'll probably be surprised to hear GTA IV has noticeably fewer weapons and vehicles on offer than GTA: San Andreas did. ... Yes, this means San Andreas' more unusual vehicles like fighter jets, hovercraft, go-karts and jetpacks are all absent. Don't expect to be wielding chainguns, flamethrowers or chainsaws either." (4) "The world itself is smaller than the state-sized San Andreas" (7) and in general the game has "a feature list that's a step back from its predecessors." (4) "Combat can be troublesome. ... When you're duking it out with enemies in confined spaces ... it can be easy to get disoriented when the camera moves around." (5) "The sometimes problematic auto-aim shooting" (1) means "you'll still die thanks to the odd lock-on screw up that has you looking at pedestrians instead of the policeman aiming up behind you." (1) Yes, the "lock-on can be a little finicky." (2) In general, "combat controls could be tighter." (1) "Cover mechanics don't always work the way they should" either. (3) There's definitely "the occasional stickiness of cover points when trying to maneuver quickly." (7) and "times when attempting to take cover behind narrow objects (such as columns) will occasionally result in Niko attaching himself to the wrong side." (5) No, "taking cover may not always work the way you want it to." (3) "Some of the control mapping is a little bit odd as Rockstar chose to do things its own way in some respects." (2) There's "some clunkiness in ladder-climbing and vaulting objects" (7) and "some of the other interactive features, such as shopping for clothes in several clothing stores, have an awkward interface, making it a chore to try on different looks." (8) "The lack of analogue running." is also off-putting. (4) "The analogue stick is there for a reason and having to hold the A button to run and tap it to sprint, stands out as a little archaic." (4)

I have the original GTA3 on the PC and it was fun, but perhaps too huge for it's own good. To me it's good that they shrunk the game down some...even though I know "smaller" games are really just a "next-gen" side-effect...

@clebin

Okay I picked this game up for the 360. A friend has it on the PS3 so in a couple of weeks I'll borrow his copy and see if I made the wrong choice. Reading reviews it seems each has their plus and minuses.

GAME REVIEW : About 2 hours into game play.
Driving well kinda stinks. Do all these cars have no ball joints left in their front suspensions? The only real difference in cars was when I stole a convertible sports car, the steering got worse then the big huge caddy type car I had before that. Other cars seem about the same.

Scripting is very good. Story may well be strong winner.

Water vs Grass -- I agree the water looks good and the grass is well crappy.

I went on a date and saved Roman's butt. I did a lot of running around doing stupid stuff. One thing that's annoying is why can't I pick anything up? Perhaps I didn't figured it out but I can kick chairs and garbage cans but not use them for weapons? Perhaps it comes later? I forget the name of the game right now. It was weak on story but it was a hero type of character where initally you can pick up some chairs but as your power grows you pick up cars. It's a similar sandbox type of game. I'd think in GTA IV I should be able to pick up a chair or open a refridge.

@BrianK

Quote:

PSN Network 'down' for GTA IV. Or more properly perhaps it's GTA servers...

More inital problems are being reported on the PS3.

There are numerous reports popping up on video game forums that claim that the PlayStation 3 version of Grand Theft Auto IV is experiencing some freeze errors. There's already a thread in the official PlayStation forums covering the "cutscene video lockup".

First off it is not only the Collectors Edition, so far though I have only heard of 60 GB version freezing. Although thing which is the latest I have heard from Tech Support is that it may be a Shotty Batch of games that have been sent to GameStop. If you are having this problem and did not get at Gamestop Please let Tech Support know at the following Number(s) America: 1-866-405-5464 or Canada: 1-800-269-5721

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @clebin Okay I picked this game up for the 360. A friend has it on the PS3 so in a couple of weeks I'll borrow his copy and see if I made the wrong choice. Reading reviews it seems each has their plus and minuses. GAME REVIEW : About 2 hours into game play. Driving well kinda stinks. Do all these cars have no ball joints left in their front suspensions? The only real difference in cars was when I stole a convertible sports car, the steering got worse then the big huge caddy type car I had before that. Other cars seem about the same. Scripting is very good. Story may well be strong winner. Water vs Grass -- I agree the water looks good and the grass is well crappy. I went on a date and saved Roman's butt. I did a lot of running around doing stupid stuff. One thing that's annoying is why can't I pick anything up? Perhaps I didn't figured it out but I can kick chairs and garbage cans but not use them for weapons? Perhaps it comes later? I forget the name of the game right now. It was weak on story but it was a hero type of character where initally you can pick up some chairs but as your power grows you pick up cars. It's a similar sandbox type of game. I'd think in GTA IV I should be able to pick up a chair or open a refridge.

Follow the link to the Nega-review I posted. This game took away features just to up the detail level...just like most "next-gen" titles when compared to last-gen counter-parts... Artists are making more money, but programmers are making less it seems as far as budgets are concerned...

@Lou

Quote:

Artists are making more money, but programmers are making less it seems as far as budgets are concerned...

Well, no, they are making the same while they need more development time and money to get up to the new detail levels while keeping the same features. I guess that'll balance out once all engines are established, tested and well understood.

_________________

@Lou

Quote:

Follow the link to the Nega-review I posted. This game took away features just to up the detail level...just like most "next-gen" titles when compared to last-gen counter-parts

Boo Hiss!
Sandbox type of games should allow maximum interactivity with that Sandbox. Crackdown was the game I was thinking of. It is similar to GTA in feel and action. The story wasn't great. However, what you could do with the environment was lots of fun. That creator is making the game APB for the 360. It's GTA crossed with an MMO. Sounds ambitious and could be interesting if pulled off.


Wii Ghostbusters sounds cool w/ the optional DS being a PK Meter.

@Zardoz

Quote:

Zardoz wrote: @Lou Quote: Artists are making more money, but programmers are making less it seems as far as budgets are concerned... Well, no, they are making the same while they need more development time and money to get up to the new detail levels while keeping the same features. I guess that'll balance out once all engines are established, tested and well understood.

I was speaking with regards to budgets, not individual salaries...

My quip is that detail levels have gone up where as feature lists have gone down, as well as the size of the environment and the length of single-player "campaigns". The excuse is multi-player mode which is supposed to provide infinite replay value (until they shut down the servers) and then you get to pay for downloadble content that was gimped from your original $60 investment or $80 investment if you got the limited edition super XXX gold version of the game...

@BrianK

Crackdown was great fun as an ultra-modern throwaway platform game. I've got high hopes for APB, but anything with the David Jones seal of approval has serious potential! I hope that there's no subscription on top of Xbox Live though.

If I had a 360 and a PS3, this would be the one game where I'd be tempted to own both versions. If the graphics are better on the PS3, I'd use that for the story, but then I'd be able to go online and play against my friends on Xbox Live. It's an expensive way to do it, but then it's a one of a kind title and that's a win-win!

I think they took out the right things in GTA4. The gym and eating were just distractions - better to just play lots to up your ratings. I'm also glad they cut down the size of the play area, although I think they could've cut it down even more. I always go back to GTA3 on this. Turn a corner and you have the hospital, or the station, or Chinatown, or a phone box, or a jump, or the car showroom.

In that sense it's disappointing. They could've been much braver in their decision to cut down the play area. I'd like to see streets and houses develop and change with the story. New shops open, characters buy bits of property, areas fall into disrepair or gangs drive the locals out, building sites become buildings. The easy thing to do is make the game world bigger to accommodate locations that will only be used once. GTA4 a step in the right direction, though. Maybe as I play it more, I'll discover all the hidden jumps and nuances of each street.

I know what you mean about not being able to pick things up. There was one mission where you have to throw something through the window of a laundrette and I was surprised I could just pick up the bins. That's a shame, but at least lots of things are satisfying destructable...

One thing that struck me after a while was that nobody was shooting it me. There's no gangs patrolling the streets, so in that sense it's a much more real environment. I remember playing San Andreas when my young nephew came over. He was enjoying watching me drive around, buying food and so on, but it was difficult to avoid all trouble. I couldn't leave him with GTA4, obviously, but I could spend all day playing it without him knowing it had any mature content at all.

But I already like it more than Vice City or San Andreas and I'm sure it'll keep growing on me as I familiarise myself with it. Sadly I won't get chance to play it again properly until Tuesday, aaaaagh!

Chris

@clebin

Crackdown was great. It was a game to just play around in and see what things you can do. Great sandbox game.

Quote:

I'd like to see streets and houses develop and change with the story. New shops open, characters buy bits of property, areas fall into disrepair or gangs drive the locals out, building sites become buildings

None of the games have this sort of time element to them. Supposedly Fable2 will have cities which will rise and fall. We'll see.

Also I come to the game with little experience in any of the preceeding stories.

Ok, I bought it (GTA4 PS3). While the PC version will look better, I couldn't resist playing on the big screen HD projector with nice surround setup.

I played for several hours so far - saved Roman a few times, went on the first date and second, played pool, darts, stole a few cars, etc.

Initial thoughts, sort of random:
- Yes, the grass is unimpressive, but the water is nice.
- Apparently Roman can't swim as well as you - he wound up in the hospital when we were being chased and I went for a long swim

The City:
It's certainly seems 'big enough' right now. Nice toll, though- $5 or run the bridge and gun it. Graphics are decent. But, see 'things to do' below.

Cars: (haven't tried motorcycles yet)
Read somewhere about poor controls. They seem pretty decent. No, you can't do 90* hand-brake turns when flying, and the turn radius is somewhat annoying. Then again, I drive a small car than I can turn around in _any_ road easily in real life, so..I may be biased, but it is a pain to juggle back and forth to do a U-turn in some cases.

Good variety, and some nice touches - the cars do handle noticeably different, at least going from a truck or generic Camry to other cars. You can power-brake and do smoke shows, and the car behavior with suspension is pretty nice when you're doing that - ease off the brakes with tires spinning, turn the wheel, and you'll see what I mean..that behavior, at least, is fairly accurate, nicely so, and some cars can't do it at all.

Oh yes, and you have GPS..depending on the car, it might or might not talk to you. Pretty cool touch.

mini-games:
So far, have played Pool, darts, and bowling.
Each is..interesting. They're done well, IMHO, for what they are, which is tough to model properly.
The problem is I'm not so sure they'll be amusing for more than a few times through.
Pool:
I used to play quite often, and have done a few local tournaments. I suck nowadays, but 'know how to play.' It's modelled pretty well; you can use English/masse, and control the force of your shot. Ball movement is _mostly_ well done.
The interface is decent, and tough to do properly, IMHO, but is a bit cludgy. You can use a 'tble view' sighting down your cue stick view, or an overhead view. The problem is you can't rotate to somewhere in between. A line is drawn via dotted line to adjust your stick angle, and is helpful, but without an added view or rotation of view, it's not as useful as it should be.

No force indicator really exists in the game, so I'm frequently trying for a moderate force shot, but it barely moves the ball, or slams it.

It's still fun, but gets monotonous at times. The people you play seem to have their own skill levels, which is cool.

GTA5, if it includes pool, should have it' right,' right now, it's sort of, almost there, not quite.

Darts:
Again, have played in real life on dart leagues.
It's 'not bad, but sort of annoying.' No force indicators exist; instead the aiming cursor 'shakes' as you move it, somewhat unpredictably. You can 'steady it' for a second via the R2 button, then shoot. It's an interesting way to model this, and not terrible, but again, it feels 'not quite great.'
I have only played one game of darts right now, using analog controls; maybe I'll change my mind down the road.

Oh, so far, you can only play 301 with Double Out.

Bowling:
Not bad. Kind of fun. Unsure I'd want to play more than a single 10 frame game at a time, however.

Things to Do/Misc:
This is the biggest annoyance so far.
So far, it seems that you can only 'find new activities' by having hem 'assigned' as part of a mission, eg Roman shows them to you. It doesn't seem like you can explore and 'find a new store or activity.' Maybe that's not the case later in the game, but right now, it's really a negative for me. One of the appeals of an 'open ended' world is it's non-linearity, so don't force the 'discover new stores and activies' to effectively be linear. Missions, fine, but I'd like to drive across the bridge, head for bright lights or interesting sights, and then be able to find a new place to explore.

Also, there is little environmental interaction. Yes, stuff gets in your way, but you can't pick any of it up. What good are garbage cans if you can't pick one up and beat someone with it? Maybe in GTA5..hopefully.

You of course, always have the original standby - go mess with people, mug them and steal cars, mess with the cops, but they had the chance to go beyond that, just seemingly didn't.

Fighting is sort of cludgy. It's not bad, but it's not great, at times being right next to someone and not hitting them, like when they're n the ground. I'm unsure if there's any indication happening between 'beat someone profusely' and 'killed them.' Some $ pops out when you beat them 'enough,' but there's no health indicator for them.


Radar:
Works pretty well and intuitive. You have a zoom mode, however, I'd prefer to be able to go out one level of LESS zoom, instead.

However, the colors used when you set a waypoint, can suck on a big screen and blend in. My PJ is calibrated, unprofessionally, but over many iterations of test patterns (Avia, DVE) and tweaking against movies and stills. Part of that generally results in a bit less brightness overall, for 'cinema effect,' but the contrasting colors don't work all that well for GTA4 for a few parts - radar routes, cell phone, and in some cases, night time trying to find the entrance to something.

The radar should be improved a bit once you're 'very close to your target' but aren't quite spotting it yet, and the colors changed to red or similar contrasting color for waypoints and targets.
Cell phone:

Mission objectives/coloring:
Mostly covered above; it can be annoying to find 'where do you REALLY want me to go?' with the radar at times. A 3d indicator arrow with distance would be good once you're within 1000 feet of it.

Saves vs auto-saves:
Argh. The only place I've found to save is Romans. However, it auto-saves at different points, and you're not often near Romans apartment, and the save point is only inside.

Suffice it to say, I wound up with 5+ hours played, and only a single save point I could revert to.

Annoying. Maybe make bus stops a point you can save at, not have to go only to a single save point.

Overall/Summary
Is it fun? Yes.
Is it perfect and deserves a '10' score? Probably not. I suspect IGN got some $ directly, or indirectly.
Multi-player could be very cool though, better than 'yet another fps or hack n slash'
Graphics: I'd give an 8. Some part are nicer than others, it's solid, haven't had framerate problems, but it's not amazing.
Sound: Good soundtrack. Haven't been overwhelmed by sound effects in surround, though.
Story - good and fun so far.

Oh yes, I have experienced the 'freeze,' once. It lasted 15 seconds or so, then game continues normally. Some claims were made this was a bad batch of media sent to GameStop - doubtful this is the case; bought mine at Circuit City.

Final so far: Good game, likely on the order of 60-100 hours of single play for first time, will at least have fun occasional replay value causing mayhem in the streets, multiplayer could be very cool, but haven't tried yet. Definite thumbs up, but not 'the perfect game,' either. More free-form like Oblivion would improve it in respect to 'finding things to do.'

Last edited by wegster on 01-May-2008 at 08:30 PM.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

Fighting is sort of cludgy. It's not bad, but it's not great, at times being right next to someone and not hitting them

A tip. Lock onto your target by pressing the left trigger, then punch, alt punch, kick and/or block. While holding the trigger you should be able to do much better. Also while moving around the camera will keep pointed towards your target.

I did some sailing (very nicely done) and then jumped onto a passing speedboat. Shot the guy in the head and his wife jumped overboard. Lots of cool stuff in this game! People being dragged over the street when they hold onto the car-door while sprinting away. Jumping over ledges is almost like in Uncharted. Still lots of things to do before I can write a proper summary/review. But it's fun.

The guys over at Beyond3D are discussing the minor differences between the two versions (both are good and receive raving reviews!), with regard to graphics rendering the PS3 is generally agreed to sport better filtering (AF) resulting in better anti-aliasing / cleaner look for far the environment in the distance and better lighting creating a more realistic look.

360:



PS3:



Other differences are less prevalent pop-ins and less loading times on the PS3 due to the harddrive install. Some nearby graphics may look a little sharper on the 360 due to the PS3 version's slighly lower rendering resolution 640p, but side by side screenshots don't really show this.

@ Wegster

For me while bowling SIxaxis controlls works best, hold the controller up and pull dowards to trow the ball, then tilt left or right for affect.

Last edited by MikeB on 01-May-2008 at 10:40 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 01-May-2008 at 10:07 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 01-May-2008 at 09:25 PM.

@MikeB

Yes, I know about the target lock-on, and have been using. It may be one of those niggles that sorts itself out with more time playing (now at most 6 hours).

The PS3 vs 360 graphics and resolutions - don't really care about, I'd added that simply as a data point more than anything. From what I've seen, they both look 'good enough' with the resolution differences or not. I think we're seeing more 'next gen' in number of moving items on screen and other areas moreso than 'best graphics ever' in either case, but they're 'good enough.'

I will give Six-Axis controls a try on bowling, and maybe darts, if it can be enabled for that. I think they're neat, all of them, just not sure that they're 'quite good enough' to warrant going to play them when you 'don't have to' etc. They are close, though (pool at least).

Load times. Can't compare to 360 obviously..ps3 isn't blazing fast, but it's ok. I am debating on upgrading the HD to a 7200 SATA-2 drive, and will be interesting to see what happens with load times. The PS3 HD has always seemed 'quite slow' to me 'by feel,' with a fair idea of how much data is similarly loaded on PCs with specific hard drives, etc - I'm not sure if the SATA bus on the PS3 is slow, the HD is slow, or if a much larger data set than expected is being loaded. Nothing Linux on PS3 and bonnie++ can't determine, but.. just my impression to date RE: PS3 HD speeds.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@MikeB

Quote:

Other differences are less prevalent pop-ins and less loading times on the PS3 due to the harddrive install. Some nearby graphics may look a little sharper on the 360 due to the PS3 version's slighly lower rendering resolution 640p, but side by side screenshots don't really show this.

Wow, I'm blown away by the graphics of the PS3 compared to the 360 or vice versa (see fanboy shades for explanation) Hang on a minute isn't the PS3 version £5 cheaper? Swings and roundabouts my good man!

Hey hang on, the graphics on the GameCube/Wii version of Resident Evil 4 are better than the PS2 therefore I'll get the 'Ninty' version and a new console just to experience a few less jaggies and nicer lens flare!!!??!!! I don't think so!

@THREAD
IT'S GAMEPLAY THAT COUNTS!!!!! THE PS3 AND 360 BOTH HAVE GOOD AND BAD POINTS. QUITE SIMPLY YOU GET BETTER GTA GRAPHICS ON THE PS3 BUT ADDED CONTENT IN THE AUTUMN ON THE 360. YOU CHOOSE! REST ASSURED ROCKSTAR MAKE GOOD GAMES (OTHER THAN MANHUNT 2) AND YOUR LIKELY NOT TO BE DISAPPOINTED WHATEVER VERSION YOU BUY!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios