@Lou

Quote:

The PS2 isn't even counted in NPD sales anymore. However, didn't Sony finally start selling it in Korea or something. It's like to manage 1k sales in Japan each week as well and those are probably just to replace broken units.

There will continue to be a market to replace broken PS2 units until back compatibility is re-implemented on the PS3!

I have just bought Wipeout Pulse on the PS2 and it rocks! I still have an SD TV although soon to have a 720p capable one when we move. I was disappointed that Wipeout Pulse has not advertised or marketed at all as it has some great tracks and could have bolstered Sony Liverpool if it had been a success! There is no incentive to 'upgrade' to a current gen console unless;

A) There's a particular game I want that badly!
B) The price comes down to a stupidly low price!
C) The PS3 re-implements backwards compatibility, in which case its current price is a steal!!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

There will continue to be a market to replace broken PS2 units until back compatibility is re-implemented on the PS3!

There is a market for the PS2 even with a PS2 emulator for the PS3 available. The PS2 sells well in areas of the world where the PS3 (and HDTV, surround audio, etc) is out of reach for most.

Software sales wise the PS2 is still a factor, but it's decreasing. In many countries piracy plays an important role.

@MikeB

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Software sales wise the PS2 is still a factor, but it's decreasing.

It's decreasing because even quality releases like 'Wipeout Pulse' are not given shelf space or internet prominence, whereas 'Ben 10 Alien Force' and cheap rubbish is still promoted! Ghostbusters was the last interesting PS2 game I saw given prominence in a games shop and that was a fairly lazy and glitchy port of the Wii game! Still fun though

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BigD There is a market for the PS2 even with a PS2 emulator for the PS3 available. The PS2 sells well in areas of the world where the PS3 (and HDTV, surround audio, etc) is out of reach for most.

MikeB, that's the whole planet.

PS2 is selling in new obscure Asian markets now and Latin America. It doesn't sell significantly in the major markets any more. These markets don't have Wii/360 there. It's an empty victory to claim the PS2 still sells well world wide.

For someone who *only cares about the PS3* you sure do mention PS2 alot...

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Lou Quote: I don't understand...does someone serve you games and only casual ones at that? You know when you used to play on your mates A500 and it made you want one? That was my experience; it became obvious to me around the time of Lemmings that the Amiga had something that my Atari ST just didn't! The Wii is a PS2 on steroids. The problem is I don't need the steroids especially when they are served up with the sort of dross I'm exposed to when I go round my friends' houses in 2009/10 and they don't have World at War (WaW) or Red Steel 2 but only Wii Sports and Rabbids! I know these are different times but I have not been won over by my experience of the Wii! I would also love to try Metroid but don't know anyone that owns it! 'WaW' was fun as was Mario Kart but they are not killer apps and my interest has waned. Bring on Twisted Metal on the PS3 and I'd be sold on the Sony console (if the game is anything like TM:Black) The majority of Wiis ARE used to entertain kids and sadly their owners have no interest in hard-core games! Less interest/sales = less shelf space for decent games and less decent games! Not interested!

Would it be such a bother to actually spend a handful of dollars to rent a quality Wii title and play it at a friend's house?

I think you might be afraid you'll enjoy it. Do your friends even have composite cables and a widescreen TV?

Perhaps you need new friends?

@Lou

Quote:

PS2 is selling in new obscure Asian markets now and Latin America. It doesn't sell significantly in the major markets any more.

With the success of the Wii, Sony should have done more to ride on its coat tails and courted 3rd party developers to continue developing for the PS2. There is no reason why Lego: Harry Potter PS2 version was canned for instance. PS2 level hardware can easily handle those graphics.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Lou

Quote:

MikeB, that's the whole planet. PS2 is selling in new obscure Asian markets now and Latin America. It doesn't sell significantly in the major markets any more. These markets don't have Wii/360 there. It's an empty victory to claim the PS2 still sells well world wide.

The PS2 is still played on a lot in the western (+Japan) world, although there is a shift to a second hand gaming market. I don't think it's wise to belittle the rest of the world that easily. At some point it may well be China makes our markets seem small, would you then belittle your own country (United States) as an insignificant factor?

Quote:

For someone who *only cares about the PS3* you sure do mention PS2 alot..

Who said I only care about PS3?

I think the PS2 is a good example here as it's still a popular and well sold system despite its now old no more leading edge technology (comparing to the Wii).

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Jun-2010 at 05:15 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: MikeB, that's the whole planet. PS2 is selling in new obscure Asian markets now and Latin America. It doesn't sell significantly in the major markets any more. These markets don't have Wii/360 there. It's an empty victory to claim the PS2 still sells well world wide. The PS2 is still played on a lot in the western (+Japan) world, although there is a shift to a second hand gaming market. I don't think it's wise to belittle the rest of the world that easily. At some point it may well be China makes our markets seem small, would you then belittle your own country (United States) as an insignificant factor?

We were talking about hardware sales.
The only thing I'm belittling is your claim of great PS2 sales. It's insignificant enough to not be counted by NPD. I watch the weekly Japanese charts, if PS2 sells 4k in a month, that's a good month for PS2 sales. You call that significant?

Quote:

Quote: For someone who *only cares about the PS3* you sure do mention PS2 alot.. Who said I only care about PS3?

You did when BrianK was going into you about Sony dropping PS2 BC among other features removed from the PS3 since launch... You then went on a minor tirade about how all you really care about is how great the PS3 experience is as a gamer and everything else could never measure up.

Vanguish producer:

"The PS3 is kind of like a sports car that's very high-performance"
"whereas the 360 is more like a car that everybody's driving"

I don't agree, the PS2 and Wii are currently played the most and the PS3 install base is set to overtake the XBox 360 install base very soon.

IMO Nintendo is golden, PS3 is platinum and the XBox 360 is like scrap metal, although the most recent version has a golden looking bronze coating.

@Lou

Quote:

If PS2 sells 4k in a month, that's a good month for PS2 sales. You call that significant?

That's similar to the XBox 360 sales for Japan. No that's not very significant, but Eastern Europe and Asia (minus Japan) should IMO not be discounted.

Quote:

You did when BrianK was going into you about Sony dropping PS2 BC among other features removed from the PS3 since launch... You then went on a minor tirade about how all you really care about is how great the PS3 experience is as a gamer and everything else could never measure up.

You better quote me in proper perspective. You seem to lack this ability as with regard to rumble a couple of post ago.

Tirade? You mean as in poetry?

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Jun-2010 at 05:58 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: If PS2 sells 4k in a month, that's a good month for PS2 sales. You call that significant? That's similar to the XBox 360 sales for Japan. No that's not very significant, but Eastern Europe and Asia (minus Japan) should IMO not be discounted. Quote: You did when BrianK was going into you about Sony dropping PS2 BC among other features removed from the PS3 since launch... You then went on a minor tirade about how all you really care about is how great the PS3 experience is as a gamer and everything else could never measure up. You better quote me in proper perspective. You seem to lack this ability as with regard to rumble a couple of post ago. Tirade? You mean as in poetry?

On page 19 or 20 you said you don't care about PS1, I intepretted over time as pre-PS3. Still you do mention PS1 emulation as a feature... I really don't understand what the delay is with PS2 emulation... PC's have been emulating the PS2 for years now. I still think it's a scheme to continue selling over-priced hardware.

Or perhaps the PS3 isn't as versatille as a PC?

@Lou

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http://www.edge-online.com/news/kinect-technology-coming-to-pc-and-tv Everything ends up on PC eventually.

One step closer to Minority Report. Wave your hands holding nothing and control your TV and PC. Microsoft did announce last year that the tech would come to the PC. It'd be great for a Media Center interface. I bet the layout is 'ready' it's simply a matter of hooking in the controller.

@MikeB

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The PS2 outsold the XBox 360 worldwide last quarter, so it's a current gen console from the sales perspective.

Last point first the PS2 is not a current gen console as much as you'd like it to be. Why is the PS2 selling? Two reasons.. First popularity it was the most popular gaming system ever, soon to be passed by the DS. Second, SDTV -- it's still highly popular. Most won't give the kids a HDTV and HD consoles. Third, quality it's still having it's share of reliability problems. Okay 3 reasons. The 2nd I see important for Sony to note. Pressing lots of money into 3DTV when they are taking their profits out of SDTV is a losing proposition this early.

I think we can all see the effects of cutting the PS2 out of the PS3. First, Sony saves cost which means they can bring their PS3 price down to a bit more realistic amount for the market. Second, by denying PS2 games to play on a PS3 you cut off the consumer upgrade path. The business thusly keeps consumers on the profitable console, read PS2, longer. The business also sells less PS3, which is sold at a loss, reducing losses which are already astronomical. And Third, the more popular games you can repackage online gaining pure profit as gamers buy the same item a 2nd time. Did Sony think of all this? It's anyone's guess none of us are in the Board Room. None-the-less it does appear these are what the effects have been.

@MikeB

Quote:

I think the PS2 is a good example here as it's still a popular and well sold system despite its now old no more leading edge technology (comparing to the Wii).

Where you seem to be misguided is applying the positives of the PS2 to the PS3. It's yet to be proven the heir apparent to the PS2 crown. In fact the Wii looks to steal that title.

@BrianK

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Where you seem to be misguided is applying the positives of the PS2 to the PS3. It's yet to be proven the heir apparent to the PS2 crown. In fact the Wii looks to steal that title.

Depending on the next few months, it could be the XBox Slim that finally sheds the image of the 360 as an unreliable console and shoots it to new heights as the true successor to the PS2. It looks better than the PS3 Slim IMO and has a larger and arguably better back catalogue and a motion gimmick without the need for a controller! The Wii is a different beast plus too similar to the PS2 to be a true successor. I also doubt Wiis are used as regularly as PS2s were last generation. The Wii seem to be wheeled out as another option instead of Trivial Pursuits .

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @BrianK Quote: Where you seem to be misguided is applying the positives of the PS2 to the PS3. It's yet to be proven the heir apparent to the PS2 crown. In fact the Wii looks to steal that title. Depending on the next few months, it could be the XBox Slim that finally sheds the image of the 360 as an unreliable console and shoots it to new heights as the true successor to the PS2. It looks better than the PS3 Slim IMO and has a larger and arguably better back catalogue and a motion gimmick without the need for a controller! The Wii is a different beast plus too similar to the PS2 to be a true successor. I also doubt Wiis are used as regularly as PS2s were last generation. The Wii seem to be wheeled out as another option instead of Trivial Pursuits .

Please define "Too similar to the PS2"

Are you so sure so many people don't use their Wii regularly? If so, why Wii games continue to sell?

Last edited by ErikBauer on 25-Jun-2010 at 10:17 AM.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@ErikBauer

Quote:

Are you so sure so many people don't use their Wii regularly? If so, why Wii games continue to sell?

Tired parents buying cheap and cheerful Wii party games for their children in order to keep them quiet

Almost all charting AAA Titles at the moment seem to be Nintendo! It's great to see 'Just Dance' doing well and also the masterpiece 'Big Catch: Bass Fishing 2'

Other than that the UK All format Sales charts feature the following Wii games:

1) Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Wii)
5) Just Dance (Wii)
6) Wii Fit Plus (Wii)
10) Wii Sports Resort (Wii)

Exciting!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Yet you have to explain me the "Too similar to Play2" thing.


Looking at the chart:
Indeed the notion of "VideoGamer" has to be rewritten, what we define a Core Gamer is no more somebody that plays "Proper Videogames" but also things like "Just Dance" and "Wii Fit Plus".
Surely not exciting titles to you, but for some they surely are if they keep selling like that. Or maybe you're trying to tell that games in positions below 6 are so bad they are outselled by non games?
Because let's be clear: as long as titles like Just Dance and Wii Fit sell, Software Houses will produce them and even if they are a bit out of your videogame definition, they still ARE videogames played on a videogaming console that alone has 4 titles in the top 10, one of which is settled at position #1.

Now, speaking clearly, this is telling us something about the true competing value of those "New Gen Giants" that are named Playstation3 and XBox360, if they can barely keep behind what you define a "Last Gen Console", there must be something wrong in Sony's and Microsoft's decisions and something right in Nintendo's, do you agree?

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

@ErikBauer

Quote:

Yet you have to explain me the "Too similar to Play2" thing.

Similar technology. Graphics are similar, PS2 has DVD playback out of the box and Wii can play DVDs if hacked etc. The Eyetoy is just as functional as the Wiimote IMO and in many ways makes the distinction between the PS2s hardcore and casual games that little bit more clear. I actually like 'Just Dance' however I prefer the 'Dancing Stage' games (DDR in the USA) on the PS2 and find Singstar and Buzz are about the limit of my casual/party game tolerances!

The Wii just doesn't hold my attention. I'm good at REAL tennis but can still get beaten by a 6 year old on Wii Tennis, because it isn't to do with skill but familiarity with the twitchy controls! It seems it can be just as easily controlled from the sofa with a flick of the wrist than if controlled standing up! To be able to complete Star Wars: The Force Unleashed with waggling is very disappointing and developers other than Nintendo have been very lazy up until this point.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @ErikBauer Quote: Yet you have to explain me the "Too similar to Play2" thing. Similar technology. Graphics are similar, PS2 has DVD playback out of the box and Wii can play DVDs if hacked etc. The Eyetoy is just as functional as the Wiimote IMO and in many ways makes the distinction between the PS2s hardcore and casual games that little bit more clear. I actually like 'Just Dance' however I prefer the 'Dancing Stage' games (DDR in the USA) on the PS2 and find Singstar and Buzz are about the limit of my casual/party game tolerances!

GotchYa! So in your opinion New Gen means More Power and Better Resolution. That's not evolution, Dinosaurs extinguished because of that.
As somebody told you before, find another last gen console with integrated WiFi connection (Heck, even the X360 didn't have!), Motion Controls, IR pointer, Downloadable games/contents, Upgradable IOS, ALL INCLUDED!

DVD Playback? Well, X360 also has only DVD Playback, great improvement.

Let's stop thinking computing power and GFX power as being the only mean of console gaming evolution, market is proving that there are other ways.

That said, I'd not consider the Wii too similar to Play2 in order to be the new "King of the Show"

Quote:

The Wii just doesn't hold my attention. I'm good at REAL tennis but can still get beaten by a 6 year old on Wii Tennis, because it isn't to do with skill but familiarity with the twitchy controls! It seems it can be just as easily controlled from the sofa with a flick of the wrist than if controlled standing up! To be able to complete Star Wars: The Force Unleashed with waggling is very disappointing and developers other than Nintendo have been very lazy up until this point.

That is maybe because you expect too much from motion control. Really, nobody is going to write a game that behave exactly as the real thing, it would become a mere simulation for real practicers.
Motion control has to be taken as a new, immersive and more immediate way of controlling your game, once your mind is settled on that, there is no excape, I guarantee.

I assure you there is much less waggling in Force Unleashed than you think and surely less than the button bashing involved in playing God of War
And I don't think ALL 3rd party developers are "Lazy" abou this, UbiSoft did a great job with bot Red Steel games, Capcom did an Excellent job with Resident Evil 4, The motion control of MadWorld is excellent, so is the one of Force Unleashed. And I could continue.

But maybe Wii jus is not for you.... and I can understand this. The thing I cant' understand is all that Wii bashing and the telling "Wii is not the real deal" when the market, and hence a userbase numbered with several zeros behind tell exactly the contrary.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!