@clebin

Quote:

For 99% of people, a games machine because unlike the Amiga in its day, there are better tools for every other job.

I don't have exact figures but the best sold Amiga, the Amiga 500 was bought by many people for its games.

Quote:

The world has moved on and isn't interested in hacking hardware.

It's an official supported feature, no hacking involved. You can boot straight into Linux from a CD without ever installing the OS.

Why you wouldn't an AmigaOS fan want AmigaOS4.x on this device? AmigaOS 1.0 wasn't very useful yet in 1985. I don't know the exact figures but the Amiga 1000 sold less than half a million units, the PS3 install base is already more than 24 times bigger after little over a year after worldwide release.

Last edited by MikeB on 07-May-2008 at 09:28 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

No one is arguing that the 360 isn't above the industry average. But it's not the 60% you make it out to be either.

I guess about 30% per year on average, more for launch units, less for later units. So for launch units most units failed at least once within 2 years after purchase.

The collected data regarded 6-10 months of tracking, no info provided on if warranty was claimed elsewhere instead. They didn't call these people to provide any information on this.

@MikeB

Quote:

The collected data regarded 6-10 months of tracking, no info provided on if warranty was claimed elsewhere instead. They didn't call these people to provide any information on this.

True there's depth showing exactly how every statistic was collected. It's very dubious that 16% turned them in for the extra warranty they paid for and another 45% went direct to Microsoft, to make your 60%. This was a sampling of their own users. IMO it's more interesting to see what % of problems made up the issues. At this point Microsoft isn't stating #s of issues. IMO they should. Or at least advertise -- launch consoles X% failures, revised models are Y% failures and how they've shown marked improvements. Of course Microsoft wants to move on and talk about their kick butt games. Overall, I too think 16% is likely low but again no where near 60%.

Quote:

Unless the 360 sold nothing since then and the PS3 sold half a million in a little than 2 months, your hardware ratio is wrong. Relatively GTA IV sold much better on the PS3 for the UK and rumours are it's pushing far more hardware sales since release as well.

That's for the info. That's one reason I used ~ it means in the area of. It seems I gave the PS3 more credit then actual. Damn me should I ever favor the PS3. BTW I did state the game has sold more per console on the PS3. As for pushing console sales -- Microsoft is claiming a 125% increase for the 360 during the launch of GTA in the UK. I haven't come across the PS3 increased rate.

@MikeB

I didn't mean hacking in the sense of installing Linux. I know you can run Linux from CD. I just don't think that a Linux installation or Live CD is unique or interesting feature, and doesn't warrant comparisons with the Amiga.

I don't remember saying I didn't want OS 4 on PS3, but since you brought it up... I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, if ever. By the time it comes out, I dread to think what shape the community's going to be in. I don't think OS 4 would stimulate much new development or sell that many copies. The *official* AmigaOS is basically dead. There, I said it.

None of this is the main part of my argument, but you've ignored that twice!

Chris

@Amiboy
Thanks for the links. Pretty much same thing, just 'new version' of what was previously shown.

And because of that perhaps, I still question if any of it is actual gameplay.

Bear in mind, 9 months is a pretty long time with a real commercial dev team if all that's remaining is creation of 'levels' etc..so, still looking forward to it, but somewhat skeptical until I see third party real play footage, and it's released.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

And because of that perhaps, I still question if any of it is actual gameplay.

What? 25 minute developer walkthrough from last year:

http://au.gamespot.com/video/928377/6177600/videoplayerpop?rgroup=leipzig07_videos

@BrianK

Quote:

Microsoft is claiming a 125% increase for the 360 during the launch of GTA in the UK. I haven't come across the PS3 increased rate.

The PS3 was already outselling the 360 for the UK, hardware sales according to Chart Track went up 127% for the PS3. Just recently Sony announced the PS3 has overtaken total 360 sales for Europe, this couldn't have been achieved if the 360 sold more hardware.

For the UK GTA IV sold 55% of GTA IV copies, the PS3 sold 45%. So a much higher attach rate for the PS3.

Last edited by MikeB on 08-May-2008 at 10:13 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

The PS3 was already outselling the 360 for the UK, hardware sales according to Chart Track went up 127% for the PS3. Just recently Sony announced the PS3 has overtaken total 360 sales for Europe, this couldn't have been achieved if the 360 sold more hardware

Scratches head at Mike's math and statements?
125% 360 increase in UK for the 360 is < 127% increase in the UK for the PS3. Assming the PS3 was outselling the 360 already the net result is the PS3 sold more in the UK. Also UK != Europe. Being the PS3 was already selling more in all other EU nations and beating the UK mathemathically the sales of the PS3 in Europe would of course beat the sales of the 360 in the UK. Then your last statement, according to the maths, is confusing. No one ever said the 360 sold more hardware in Europe. It seems you're creating a strawman and arguing with yourself that the PS3 won Europe. Was that intended?

Quote:

For the UK GTA IV sold 55% of GTA IV copies, the PS3 sold 45%. So a much higher attach rate for the PS3.

Again I've already said this. You've already said this. I agreed and denoted I said this. Now you've said it again? Was this redundancy of your redundancy intended?

Last edited by BrianK on 08-May-2008 at 11:16 AM.

@BrianK

Quote:

Again I've already said this.

You said the 360 version outsold the PS3 for the UK version by about 100k, I provided percentages which better reflects the actual sales ratio which can then be compared to the install base ratio I provided information on within an earlier post in reply to your comment.

Regarding your harddrives and DVD drives comment earlier on, drives are the moving parts of the console normally more subject to wearing. That's why I referred to this as drive related problems within an earlier post.

IMO everything I said made sense, puts things more into perspective than what you said and some things you state actually sound like strawman arguments to me. I didn't see a reason to point this out, but considering your comment I just did.

The 360 is half the entry price of the PS3 in Europe (399 vs 199 Euro and, the PS3 is significantly outperfoming the 360 in Europe. You said you didn't have figures on the PS3 hardware sales boost for the UK and I provided you with this information. You're welcome...

Last edited by MikeB on 08-May-2008 at 11:41 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 08-May-2008 at 11:40 AM.

@MikeB

Thanks for that link, I had forgotten about those sets of vids!

I have heard that they are shoing the 3rd level of the game it those vids.

@wegster

I have just realised that one of the two last links is a duplicate of the second link I posted!

The link I ment to put on was showing actual footage of one of the people who was able to play on the game at the PS Day in London.

This is the one I was supposed to put

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUrqVA-cc5g

As far as I am aware this is the bit of the game that people who attended the PS day were able to play on. (Its supposedly the second level of the game).

I got most of these links from the US Playstation forums as there is more Killzone 2 discussion on there compared to the EU forums

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board?board.id=killzone2

If this is how the finished games looks (and I think it is) then it is deffinitly on my wants list.

Last edited by Amiboy on 08-May-2008 at 11:59 AM.

_________________
Live Long and keep Amigaing!

A1200, Power Tower, TF1260 128MB RAM, 68060 Rev 6, OS3.9 BB2, HD-Floppy, Mediator TX+ PCI, Voodoo 3 3000, Soundblaster 4.1, TV Card, Spider USB, 100MBit Ethernet, 16GB CF HD, 52xCDRom.

@MikeB

Quote:

Why can't you go into more depth and provide some specific example?

The results speak for themselves. RSX(or for G70/G71 that matter)'s paper advantage didn’t translate into practical advantage over other mid-range unfied shader based GPUs.

Refer to http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_37100.html
for G8x vs G7x

Xenos itself has its own issues when compared to Radeon HD 3650 let alone against Radeon HD 3830 (RV670 on 128bit bus).

Quote:

So this means the PC is fixed hardware and every consumer should be expected to own one specific version of Intel Core 2?

Intel’s Core 2 architecture is the dominate X86/X64 micro-architecture.

Last edited by Hammer on 08-May-2008 at 12:09 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 08-May-2008 at 12:05 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 08-May-2008 at 12:04 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3A+/Emu68)

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: Again I've already said this. You said the 360 version outsold the PS3 for the UK version by about 100k, I provided percentages which better reflects the actual sales ratio which can then be compared to the install base ratio I provided information on within an earlier post in reply to your comment.

My reading of the sentence was more that you were disagreeing then supporting. Thanks for that clarification.

Quote:

Regarding your harddrives and DVD drives comment earlier on, drives are the moving parts of the console normally more subject to wearing. That's why I referred to this as drive related problems within an earlier post.

Sorry if I was being pedantic post #742 refered to "drive related" and as there was no S at the end for drives (DVD + HDD) I assumed you meant HDD only.

Quote:

everything I said made sense, puts things more into perspective than what you said and some things you state actually sound like strawman arguments to me.

I made points of fact and didn't argue anything with those. The end I made a statement on how those points relate to the importance in financial terms for companies to do multi-platform so that was a bit of an arguement. The rest just points of fact.


Quote:

You said you didn't have figures on the PS3 hardware sales boost for the UK and I provided you with this information.

And thanks.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/05/08/report-xbox-360-jasper-chipset-contracted-for-production/
I wonder if these lower cost 360's will lead to the viability of a BR-equipped 360 from a price-point-of-view...

@MikeB/amiboy

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @wegster Quote: And because of that perhaps, I still question if any of it is actual gameplay. What? 25 minute developer walkthrough from last year: http://au.gamespot.com/video/928377/6177600/videoplayerpop?rgroup=leipzig07_videos

Lol, good job GameSpot - movie play link doesn't work with firefox or safari on OSX.

Downloaded (300+ MB!) and viewed. I hadn't seen that one before, only the usual trailers.

Looks fine, if quite dark. Doesn't seem to be > Crysis, which some people are arguing on us.playstation.com endlessly, but it looks fine. Of note is even the level being shown 'isn't yet complete' per the interview, so at least at time of video, maybe the engine was '> 50% done,' levels etc were not.

I do hope the wait is worth it.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

GTA : We covered the UK a bit... Now the US is rolling out their GTA #s.

According to retailers more than 60% of all GTA games sold in the first week were the Xbox 360 version .

Note VGChartz shows 11.7M 360 and 4.9 PS3 in the USA. This makes the market 70% 360 and 30% PS3. Again the PS3 penetration rate as higher. But a high number of sales moving a Sony exclusive to multiplaform again demostrates to companies multiplatform is worth the time for the sales and profits.

40% of new 360s sell w/ a copy of GTA. Retail sales of 360 increased by 54%.

Xbox Live record reached of 1M concurrent users playing 1 game. This game again is GTA.


What does Sony think of the PS3?
Hirai - "The true test of the console, in terms of the install base race, is really when you look back at the end of the life cycle....we will have the install base that we're looking for and that is to be obviously in the leadership position."
Comment: Sony said PS3 will last for a decade? I guess then we'll need to check back in 8 years and see how they're doing against the next gen Nintendo and Microsoft boxes. Clearly the PS2 held it's own for a while...

@BrianK

Regarding UK sales.
VGChartz shows week ending with 26 April less than 2000 units difference between
360 and PS3. Week ending with 3 May shows about 4000 units difference.

EDIT:
In PS3's favour I forgot to mention.

EDIT2:
Or did you mean GTAIV sales?

Last edited by Samwel on 09-May-2008 at 12:22 AM.
Last edited by Samwel on 09-May-2008 at 12:07 AM.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

In Japan week ending May 4th:

01. Mario Kart Wii (Wii) - 173,000 / 1,120,000
02. Monster Hunter Portable 2nd G (PSP) - 102,000 / 1,909,000
03. Link's Crossbow Training (Wii) - 93,000 / NEW
04. Wii Fit (Wii) - 52,000 / 1,986,000
05. Meccha! Taiko Drum Master DS: 7-tsu no Shima no Daibouken (DS) - 42,000 / 98,000
06. Pokémon Ranger: Batonnage (DS) - 31,000 / 508,000
07. Boura wa Kaseki Holder (DS) - 27,000 / 84,000
08. Valkyria Chronicles (PS3) - 24,000 / 102,000
09. Deca Sports (Wii) - 24,000 / 186,000
10. Wii Sports (Wii) - 22,000 / 2,959,000

MKWii breaks 1M, Monster Hunter P2G on PSP approached 2M...wow! Wii Fit also approaches 2M, no suprise there...

In the US, the Stephen Speilsberg (sp) & EA produced game Boom Blox received a 93 metacritic review score. It should sell buckets in Japan if they ever release it there...

Edit:
Hardware
PlayStation Portable - 100,870
Nintendo Wii - 71,518
Nintendo DS - 52,542
PlayStation 3 - 10,177
PlayStation 2 - 8802
Xbox 360 - 1725

Last edited by Lou on 09-May-2008 at 12:09 PM.

Wow - stong words from Microsoft:
http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=10388&Itemid=2
Quote:

Microsoft's Aaron Greenberg says “the days of Sony snowing the consumers and the press are over,” that the company has failed to deliver on numerous promises, and challenges Sony’s latest European PS3 sales figures. “We have been fighting Sony's promises from the day we entered the market,” Greenberg told Destructoid. “Three years ago at E3 they showed what PS3 games would supposedly look like with the Killzone 2 video, that we are now learning will ship four years later. That means that we will have shipped Gears of War and Gears of War 2 before they can even get Killzone out the door. “Think back to GDC 2007 when Sony promised to leap ahead in online with the Sony Home unveil. Here we are two years later and multiple delays for a product that appears to have little to no buzz. Where are the achievements? The friends list integration across all games? Where is the long-promised video store? Where are all the other products using and networking with their CELL chip? How come Blu-ray did not result in better games? What happened with Sixaxis and rumble? Where is the complete 1080p game library we were promised? If Blu-ray as they said would be such a catalyst to PS3 console sales, then why have PS3 sales over the past couple of months not seen any lift since the format victory?” According to Greenberg, “Xbox 360 is leading this generation” with a greater installed base, more than double the software library, the most exclusives and the leading online service and community. He said that Microsoft has more up its sleeve to reveal later this year and that he’s confident Xbox 360 will extend its lead over PS3 during 2008. Greenberg said Microsoft’s Xbox 360 currently commands a five million unit lead over PS3 on a global basis, has double the installed base in the US, based on NPD data, and over a one million unit lead across Europe, based on figures from ChartTrack and GfK.

But he fails to see the Wii "slowly" catching up in online services...
Nintendo just released the Nintendo channel this week where you can preview videos and interview and look at upcoming games...
Thanks to some new engines, hopefully Wii games will start to look closer to 480p rendered 360/PS3 games soon...

@Lou
They need a movie -- Nintendo eats Japan....

Thanks for the Microsoft smackdown comments. IMO they realize they're going to not be #1 so are attacking the eventual leader, typical marketing slinging. (MikeB please post your picture of the crying baby and integrate the MIcrosoft logo.) One item they missed talking about was the promise of TV Capture for the PS3.

I agree with you both the 360 and PS3 are ignoring the Wii. Both camps have made statements that the Wii makes a nice 2nd console. I believe MIcrosoft even said at one time users should prefer a Wii+360 over a PS3. Sony quelled that by cutting price on the PS3. Though the biggest thing I see the Wii lacking is a large harddrive. Rumors have been floating that it may be an add-on this christmas. But clearly the lack of Blu-Ray or DVD isn't hurting their sales, something Sony does claim Blu is necessary.

Blu's necessary for Sony for another venue of Sony profits. Sony gets fees from the licensing and media. And if consumers to rebuy their Sony Video collection in Blu, then Sony brings extra cash. For this reason of course Blu-Ray is necessary PS3. Blu-Ray bundling in the PS3 is an attempt to leverage their leadership position into another marketplace.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou They need a movie -- Nintendo eats Japan.... Thanks for the Microsoft smackdown comments. IMO they realize they're going to not be #1 so are attacking the eventual leader, typical marketing slinging. (MikeB please post your picture of the crying baby and integrate the MIcrosoft logo.) One item they missed talking about was the promise of TV Capture for the PS3. I agree with you both the 360 and PS3 are ignoring the Wii. Both camps have made statements that the Wii makes a nice 2nd console. I believe MIcrosoft even said at one time users should prefer a Wii+360 over a PS3. Sony quelled that by cutting price on the PS3. Though the biggest thing I see the Wii lacking is a large harddrive. Rumors have been floating that it may be an add-on this christmas. But clearly the lack of Blu-Ray or DVD isn't hurting their sales, something Sony does claim Blu is necessary. Blu's necessary for Sony for another venue of Sony profits. Sony gets fees from the licensing and media. And if consumers to rebuy their Sony Video collection in Blu, then Sony brings extra cash. For this reason of course Blu-Ray is necessary PS3. Blu-Ray bundling in the PS3 is an attempt to leverage their leadership position into another marketplace.

I believe MS will release a BluRay equipped 360 and end that advantage with a quickness. Pre-ordering customers will be able to order BR versions or DVD versions of games.

Heck, don't be suprised if a Special Edition GTA4 with extra content is remastered onto a BR disc for the 360 when it comes out...

All Nintendo has to do is make the SD card's files viewable AND runnable from the main channels menu and they suddenly have up to an extra 4GB of storage which should be plenty for the Wii. The Wii has USB 2.0 ports as well. Iwata has stated that he is aware of the issue. Something will probably be done by the holidays as Reggie announced something to satisfy the "hardcore gamer" for the holidays...

E3 should be interesting. IGN just revealed that a Wii version of Kid Icarus is coming for the Wii from Factor 5. I imagine you'll fly him like the dragon in Lair and use the Lair engine that they ported to the Wii. I think the Wii's accelerometers are better than the early Sixaxis ones so it should control fine as reported by "some" PS3 users whom I suspect had the higher quality ones...