@BrianK

Quote:

If memory serves MikeB posted the Ghostbuster's team saying consessions had to be made to the PS3 version due to the 360. They stated they could do so much more on the screen of the PS3 but had to cut back due to the 360. IMO sad to see the PS3, which the team seemingly claimed to be superior, not have the superior version. If the end user received more poor textures that's not a win. So perhaps the 360 did the PS3 version a favor.

There are concessions and there is completely destroying. If anything, the game should have looked the same on both formats. Even if the PS3 was capable of more, this game should not have suffered in the manner it did.

To highlight this, you only have to look at the StreetFighter IV versions. Aside from a few extra little tweaks again that the 360 version had over the PS3, the two games were (for all intents and purposes) identical.

@FLFB

I haven't seen direct comparisons of the games you recently acquired for your PS3 (but as far as I was aware, there weren't the same issues with them as with GB on the PS3).

I do own Fracture myself on the 360, but it is one of many games that I have not actually played yet (aside from a demo ages ago).

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@BrianK

Quote:

This is an example of why people see you as a PS3 zealot. You acknowledge the glitches exist due to a patch being made. You then try to excuse this as if it's not really a glitch. Simply acknowledge PS3 games do have glitches, it's not unheard of.

What are you talking about? Of course PS3 exclusive games have bugs.

I was talking about the Ghostbusters issues, not about the bugs in PS3 exclusives. There was quite a few things in that game on the PS3 which required patching, pointing towards the PS3 version lagging behind in development, needing to catch up (less room for testing).

I often get the feeling we are discussing on different wavelenghts. You too often seem to read something which wasn't stated.

Quote:

Really? Cuz the Ratchet and Unreal bugs were found this way? Certainly they were by the end user.

The problem with Ratchet happened under very specific circumstances, that's why the vast majority of users and all reviewers didn't discover this bug.

Quote:

Such as how it handles textures and shading.

Of course, that's why I highlighted the Cell (for example flexible SPU shading) and Blu-Ray disc capacity (for things like texture streaming), as advantages (also audio streaming, etc of course).

That's why I state the PS3 should be judged as a system, rather than GPU vs GPU specs, especially so as the RSX was designed specifically for taking good advantage of the Cell (and the 360 nor PCs come with a Cell). The RSX is far more useful at what it does well within the PS3 architecture, its tunnel vision weaknesses not a big issue due to the Cell strongpoints for well optimised games.

@all

Nintendo Expected to Cut Wii Price by $50

Quote:

Following price cuts by its two rivals, Nintendo is expected to reduce the price of its Wii video game system by $50 later this week. The widely expected move could help the company reverse the company’s slowing momentum as it heads into the holiday sales period. Numerous leaked retail circulars indicate the Wii’s price will fall to $199. This would be the system’s first price change since it was introduced in 2006.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 24-Sep-2009 at 12:02 AM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Zardoz Quote: A single core is never ever ever dedicated to anything on Windows, sorry. The advantages in Windows of having multi-core improved over time. Multi-threading is needed for that. For the OS itself to take well advantage of multi-cores vs performance in a single core environment must include multi-processing abilities for core processes. A related quote from a few years ago: "Finally, keep in mind that the Windows XP driver model for Direct3D is quite inefficient, to such an extent that in many applications, the OS and driver overhead associated with issuing Direct3D calls approaches 50% of available CPU cycles.Hiding this overhead will be one of the major immediate uses of multi-core." http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2377&p=3 This may also help with regard to what I am pointing at: Why's my single core processor faster than my dual core? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070918204048AAy2WtW (edit, wrong link)

The visual display update interface of Windows was moved to the gpu with Vista. Win7 in particular is quite nice. All "windows" display updates are handled by the gpu instead of soft-rendering on the cpu then copied to the gpu.

Regardless, this issue never affected games as they delt directly with the gpu (via directX) for display at all times.

@_Steve_

Quote:

_Steve_ wrote: @BrianK [quote]Even if the PS3 was capable of more, this game should not have suffered in the manner it did. To highlight this, you only have to look at the StreetFighter IV versions. Aside from a few extra little tweaks again that the 360 version had over the PS3, the two games were (for all intents and purposes) identical.

Again, with a marginally superior cpu, the game engine may be able to handle more objects/enemies(and the data and decision trees/code) than the 360, however, that doesn't mean the gpu can animate them all without taking shortcuts. This is where the PS3 lags. What's the point of the extra cpu power if the gpu is the bottleneck? Now when you use Cell to assist the gpu..then you lose the cpu advantage...or significantly reduce the advantage...and still lag behind a bit visually. He likes to point at certain exclusives like Uncharted 2, but until that game is on the 360, we can't assume it would look better or worse for that matter...which he does.

Mike likes to compare the PS3 and 360 to the Amiga and ST. He fails to see that it's the 360 that has the better custom chips to help the weaker cpu like the Amiga did over the ST(which had a faster cpu than the A500).

Look at the TurboGrafx-16 . TurboGrafx-16 featured a 16-bit custom video color encoder chip, 16-bit video display controller, and an 8-bit CPU with an integrated custom programmable sound generator. A weak cpu allowed it to compete in the 16 bit era because of the custom chips. The RSX in the PS3 was behind the times when it launched. Xenos was ahead of the pack.

@MikeB

Quote:

I often get the feeling we are discussing on different wavelenghts. You too often seem to read something which wasn't stated

I appreciate the feedback and preceive you have the issue with others here too.

Quote:

The problem with Ratchet happened under very specific circumstances, that's why the vast majority of users and all reviewers didn't discover this bug.

A fair explaination. A bug none the less.

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especially so as the RSX was designed specifically for taking good advantage of the Cell

The Cell + RSX was a less integrated design than the Xenon + Xenos.

Quote:

its tunnel vision weaknesses not a big issue due to the Cell strongpoints for well optimised games

And there's the rub. As developers have stated over and over again the PS3 is animal of a different color. The result is a different programming model. This results in more time to learn the system (read labor) , and games that take longer to produce (read longer time to market). The result of this is the economics of game development is tighter. If one doesn't get a good majority of PS3 owners to buy one's game the chances are better the profits won't be made, or worse losses. So yeah it is a big issue to developers bottom lines.

EDIT: If Sony had made a compelling enough story with the PS3 out of the gate their position wouldn't be last in console sales. Due to this it makes LOTS of sense to go cross-platform with the 360. One has a wider audidence to sell their games and a better chance to recover investments and make a profit. IMO Sony decided their own fate and we see the results. Less exclusives and more cross platform. Who knows how the $300 price point will play out in the long term. Ideally sales should be better. The Wii and 360 simply need to drop their price a bit more. The result is Sony is again the high priced option in a world wide recession.

Last edited by BrianK on 24-Sep-2009 at 12:39 PM.

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: This is an example of why people see you as a PS3 zealot. You acknowledge the glitches exist due to a patch being made. You then try to excuse this as if it's not really a glitch. Simply acknowledge PS3 games do have glitches, it's not unheard of. What are you talking about? Of course PS3 exclusive games have bugs. I was talking about the Ghostbusters issues, not about the bugs in PS3 exclusives. There was quite a few things in that game on the PS3 which required patching, pointing towards the PS3 version lagging behind in development, needing to catch up (less room for testing). I often get the feeling we are discussing on different wavelenghts. You too often seem to read something which wasn't stated. Quote: Really? Cuz the Ratchet and Unreal bugs were found this way? Certainly they were by the end user. The problem with Ratchet happened under very specific circumstances, that's why the vast majority of users and all reviewers didn't discover this bug. Quote: Such as how it handles textures and shading. Of course, that's why I highlighted the Cell (for example flexible SPU shading) and Blu-Ray disc capacity (for things like texture streaming), as advantages (also audio streaming, etc of course). That's why I state the PS3 should be judged as a system, rather than GPU vs GPU specs, especially so as the RSX was designed specifically for taking good advantage of the Cell (and the 360 nor PCs come with a Cell). The RSX is far more useful at what it does well within the PS3 architecture, its tunnel vision weaknesses not a big issue due to the Cell strongpoints for well optimised games.

On a gaming PC, there's very little need for CELL i.e. Crysis PC says hello..

Care to start Uncharted 2 vs Crysis?

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@MikeB

Quote:

Dedicating for instance 1 or 2 processors (SPEs) to enhance graphics potential I don't see as a waste.

Relative to current gen GPUs, it just fixes the design issues of RSX/Geforce 7.

Quote:

The Cell has 8 processors,

6 SPEs are usable by the game.

Quote:

although graphics are just one of many aspects with regard to designing complex games. Graphics are relevant and the SPEs are much more flexible than the GPU for many tasks.

Funny that Fold@Home GPU2 has more work types than Fold@Home CELL...

Last edited by Hammer on 24-Sep-2009 at 01:30 PM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

- The PS3 is well more powerful, this before we had games like Uncharted.

Not supported by the lead designer for both CELL and Xenon.

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@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: And of course for cost reasons. The PS3 was already a cost bloated console. Moving up a generation to equal or better the Xenos would have meant more costs, read losses, for Sony. Of course, cost is a major consideration. But still Cell + RSX >>> Xenos + Xenon and that's what matters as well. In addition to this default harddrive, Blu-Ray capacity and other extras enlarges the technical advantage and yes those extras results into extra costs. But the PS3 with all that is truly an amazing deal at $299. Uncharted 2 will certainly drop jaws, also people with mega expensive PCs.

One can build a $499 USD GPU centric PC that can play Crysis at high details that blows away PS3 and Uncharted 2.

Do you seriously want to start Crysis vs Uncharted 2?

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@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Zardoz Quote: A single core is never ever ever dedicated to anything on Windows, sorry. The advantages in Windows of having multi-core improved over time. Multi-threading is needed for that. For the OS itself to take well advantage of multi-cores vs performance in a single core environment must include multi-processing abilities for core processes. A related quote from a few years ago: "Finally, keep in mind that the Windows XP driver model for Direct3D is quite inefficient, to such an extent that in many applications, the OS and driver overhead associated with issuing Direct3D calls approaches 50% of available CPU cycles.Hiding this overhead will be one of the major immediate uses of multi-core." http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2377&p=3

The context was 2005 era X86 CPU. Times has changed with the arrival Intel Core 2/ Core i7 and AMD Athlon II/Phenom II. Regardless of this issue, Crysis still blows away Uncharted 2 in graphics department.

Quote:

This may also help with regard to what I am pointing at: Why's my single core processor faster than my dual core? http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070918204048AAy2WtW (edit, wrong link)

Intel Core 2 Duo T7500 has auto-over clocking feature (refer to Intel Dynamic Acceleration) during single CPU core usage.

Last edited by Hammer on 24-Sep-2009 at 01:40 PM.

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@Lou

Quote:

The visual display update interface of Windows was moved to the gpu with Vista. Win7 in particular is quite nice. All "windows" display updates are handled by the gpu instead of soft-rendering on the cpu then copied to the gpu. Regardless, this issue never affected games as they delt directly with the gpu (via directX) for display at all times.

Games like FarCry 2 PC deals with NVAPI i.e. 4 code path, NVAPI (NV CUDA), DX10.1(ATI CAL), DX10 and DX9c.

Last edited by Hammer on 24-Sep-2009 at 01:38 PM.

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@all

Nintendo cuts the price of Wii

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@fairlanefastback

The Wii is so overyped it's untrue. Admittedley a round of golf on Wii Sports is fun but when you actually play 'proper' games like World at War the motion controls are gimmicky and don't add that much! No doubt Resident Evil 4 is better but it's an old game! Light gun/Eye Toy/Dancing Stage/ Sing Star offer more and are more fun! Nintendo have made a killing and as normal its the gullible that will pay through the nose that have given them their profits! WHERE IS THE LIGHT SABER GAME WE WERE ALL PROMISED!!! Red Steel is no replacement and nor is Lego Star Wars!!! This is the most kiddy console since the N64!

P.S. Mario Kart gets dull very quickly!!! Random weapons, over powered weapons and severe penalties lead to a crazily chaotic experience - KEEP IT FOR THE KIDS BUT BUY A PROPER CONSOLE FOR THE ADULTS!!

Last edited by BigD on 24-Sep-2009 at 03:30 PM.

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@BigD
I agree. None-the-less the kiddy console rakes in the $$. Which is why businesses are in business.

@Thread
Larabee was shown this week. 25FPS real-time ray-tracing. Impressive. But, still not quick enough for gaming purposes. If Larabee makes it I'd hope that the 2nd gen Larabee would make ray-tracing games accessible. IMO if Larabee is to make it they'll need a console, but I don't see this until the 2nd gen Larabee. Intel has deep pockets so they could acheive that.

Of course to steal some thunder AMD released the 5870 processor which as 2x the performace of their 4870s and at nearly the same power usage. Impressive in it's own right.

Speaking of next-gen consoles. Early projections are that development costs will double with the complexities that lie in the future.


With the drop of the Wii pricing and the PS3 pricing 'drop' the market has changed a bit. If I were Microsoft I'd remove the Arcade and drop the Elite permanenty to $229-$249 area.

@BigD

Wii is a kiddy console due to Kiddy and crappy games being programmed over it.
But times are changing:
Monster Hunter Tri, Mad World, No More Heroes II, Star Wars Force Unleashed, Red Steel II adn Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles are more adult games and are technically start to push Wii towards it's true potential.

Btw: Who promised a LightSabre game with 1:1 controls? Nintendo not for sure. I think this is an urban legend grow up by people's excitement abotu Wii controls.
I mean, even if Wiimote could do 1:1 motion controls right from the start what would have been the point of having a 1:1 motion control lightsabre game?
Are you ACTUALLY capable of wielding a lightsabre (or even a sword) and properly use it?
If the answer is not, then that game would have been unplayable for you.

Let's face truth: what ruined Wii was the overhype of people that was expecting such games, games that are technically not feasable unless engineers find a way to realize a force back system that sops your blows in mid air when you hit something in the game.

But if you look at the innovation and immersion side, you'll find that Red Steel, Resident Evil 4, Mad World, Metroid Prime Corruption (now trilogy!!!), Force Unleashed and even Quake 1, played with Wii controls give you a whole new gaming experience, completely different from the usual Mouse+Keyboard or Joypad.

Even rail shooters are gaining new life with this console, take this for example:
http://www.nwiizone.com/nintendo-wii/nwii/resident-evil-the-darkside-chronicles-wii-tgs09-gameplay-trailer/

Damned kikass graphix if you think theya re coming from a lowly Wii...
Hey, Capcom! What about Re5 Wii edition?

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@all

Terminal Reality explains why the lead platform version ended up less attractive than the 360 version in the end:

Quote:

Instead of leaving it up to internet Matlocks, we asked Terminal Reality to comment on the controversy. A spokesperson for the developer told us, "For the record, the PS3 version [of Ghostbusters] is softer due to the 'quincunx' antialiasing filter and the fact we render at about 75% the resolution of the 360 version. So you cannot directly compare a screen shot of one to the other unless you scale them properly. The PS3 does have less available RAM than the 360 – but we managed to squeeze 3 out of 4 textures as full size on the PS3."

Quote:

is Terminal Reality's engine – despite comments to the contrary – just not up to snuff on the PS3? With most recent multiplatform titles performing comparably, if not identically, on both the Xbox 360 and PS3 consoles, we'd be inclined to agree with Mr. Leadbetter: it's like "time-warping back to the dawn of PS3 development" when PS3 games were routinely outperformed by their Xbox 360 counterparts.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/06/17/ghostbusters-on-ps3-lags-behind-360-version-developer-explains/

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@all

PS3 Ghostbusters is 56% Xbox resolution, not 75%

Quote:

although its nice for the developers to pick up on our originally false headline, the PS3 version of the Ghostbusters is not actually 75% the resolution of the Xbox 360 game. We were at first thrown by the three-quarter steps cited in the source screenshots, when a Gamezine reader, Morac, corrected us. Since 960 by 540 is 518,400 pixels and 1280 by 720 is 921,600 pixels, the PS3 game is actually 56.25% the resolution of the Xbox 360 game. Quite a drop and a little more extreme than we had at first believed.

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@ErikBauer

Cursed Mountain seems interesting too!

http://cursedmountain.deepsilver.com/us/index.php

http://wii.ign.com/objects/142/14270799.html

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@fairlanefastback

Yeah, of course. I just cited the ones that are most hyped.
We also have Dead Space Extraction promising very well and even Samurai Warriors 3 does not look that bad.

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