@wegster

I believe Microsoft called their service campaign as retrofitting. They change some components I guess. It had to do with overheating of some FF components or something.

Removed post, Off Topic.

This thread is about PS3, XBox360 and Wii, so stay on topic !

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/tomazkid

Last edited by tomazkid on 22-Dec-2007 at 12:19 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 21-Dec-2007 at 08:41 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 21-Dec-2007 at 08:30 PM.

Removed post, Off Topic.

/tomazkid

Last edited by tomazkid on 22-Dec-2007 at 12:19 AM.
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Removed post, Off Topic.

/tomazkid

Last edited by tomazkid on 22-Dec-2007 at 12:20 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 21-Dec-2007 at 08:53 PM.

Removed post, Off Topic.

/tomazkid

Last edited by tomazkid on 22-Dec-2007 at 12:20 AM.
Last edited by Zardoz on 21-Dec-2007 at 09:41 PM.

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Removed post, Off Topic.

/tomazkid

Last edited by tomazkid on 22-Dec-2007 at 12:20 AM.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

PS3 Blu-Ray vs Toshiba HD DVD players

PS3:

"I've been using the Blu-ray movie player in my PlayStation 3 game console for about a year now and have been invariably thrilled with both the quality of Blu-ray discs and the ability of the device to sharpen the image on regular DVDs. "

Toshiba HD DVD players:

"Both players are atrociously slow at powering on and launching playback on their discs. "

link

According to US data from Nielsen, the PS3 leads in HDTV and surround sound adoption amongst its userbase, 71% own a HDTV and 54% a 5.1/7.1 surround sound audio setup (24% 7.1 audio, 30% 5.1 audio setup).

@MikeB

PS3 vs HD DVD stand alone is a bit interesting. First they compare a console to a stand-alone. Then the hiccups are noted as fixed. But, they appear to not have applied the fixes to the HD DVD player. Did they apply the fixes to the PS3? If yes why would someone compare the latest patched unit to a unit that wasn't patched? Also the headline doesn't seem to match the article. HD DVD has a few hiccups is the headline. But, the author states at the end of the article that Blu-Ray has firmware fixes too and he doesn't think stand-alones should need to be updated.

I'm not sure what to make of this article. I guess one can take away that the PS3 is a good player. But, this is something anyone could quickly gain from reading a myriad of other reviews out there. I think a comparision of stand alones would have been more valuable.

@BrianK

The Toshiba HD-A30 is a relative new product, so they probably reviewed the device as available in the shops.

Quote:

First they compare a console to a stand-alone.

Nomatter that you get cool gaming and multimedia features thrown into the package the PS3 is one the best (if not the best!) Blu-Ray movie player on the market today.

Quote:

Did they apply the fixes to the PS3?

The PS3 has been an excellent Blu-Ray player ever since release.

@MikeB

Quote:

Nomatter that you get cool gaming and multimedia features thrown into the package the PS3 is one the best (if not the best!) Blu-Ray movie player on the market today.

Okay and no one is arguing it's not.

My statement is that the article didn't do a good job. What's the goal? It seems undefined. The title indicates problems are with HD DVD players. While that's true and mentioned later in the article Blu-Ray players have problems and they too need patching. The title excludes this and ends up indirectly skewing in favor of Blu-Ray due to lack of problems. It should indicate both HD formats need updating of players. He doesn't even mention the PS3 receiving updates for Blu-Ray, it has and it appears he has them applied.

I think some would read this article and it appears the idea was to bias in favor of the PS3 and Blu-Ray from the get go. For myself the article is lacking journalistically or comparitive wise.

Quote:

The PS3 has been an excellent Blu-Ray player ever since release.

I disagree the PS3 hasn't been excellent since day one. Early on the PS3 had some High Defn scaling issues. If I recall correctly early movies came out 1080p or 480p only. This impacted some 720p TVs a small group appeared to only upscale 480p. So, 720p output for these users was a problem. It's since been fixed but those users probably wouldn't call upscaled 480p as excellent High Def output. Also, didn't 2.10 update our PS3s with BDj? So then yes the PS3 has been patched to be better then it's original release. The PS3 has always been very good at Blu-Ray, if not the best, but it has had improvements since launch. Again the article fails to mentions the PS3 had patching too and the title lays the blame only on HD DVD players.

Last edited by BrianK on 22-Dec-2007 at 03:08 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

While that's true and mentioned later in the article Blu-Ray players have problems and they too need patching.

Is a firmware update for the slow load times available? Why didn't it ship with a better firmware considering it was recently released.

Quote:

He doesn't even mention the PS3 receiving updates for Blu-Ray, it has and it appears he has them applied.

Most (if any) PS3 firmware updates didn't relate to Blu-Ray load times at all, only with the most recent update has the PS3's Blu-Ray capabilities been extended.

Quote:

Early on the PS3 had some High Defn scaling issues.

Only with some of the earliest HDTVs, the Blu-Ray playback on newer TVs was already excellent since day one.

Quote:

This impacted some 720p TVs

I think this problem related mainly to early 1080i-only HDTV, TVs which didn't support 720p nor 1080p. It affected only a very small minority of people, I think likely to upgrade to a flat panel TV anyhow soon enough (pricing has come down considerably since those days and a flatter TV is nicer).

@MikeB

Quote:

Is a firmware update for the slow load times available?

Good question. But, from what I read stand-alone Blu-Ray have slower load times then the PS3 too. This doesn't impact the play back of the video or audio in either case. What happens is it simply takes longer to the inital menu. This is one reason why a stand alone to stand alone would be a better comparison.

Quote:

Why didn't it ship with a better firmware considering it was recently released

To answer this we'd have to look at ship dates, delievery dates, receive dates, and dates on newer firmware. Many products now need to be updated when one brings them home. The reviewer knew of a fix available and didn't apply it? I say poor reviewer is partial to blame.

Quote:

Only with some of the earliest HDTVs, the Blu-Ray playback on newer TVs was already excellent since day one.

Yup and that's what I said too. But for early HDTV owners is the answer buy a new TV? Nope it's PS3 fix your outputs to include more then 480p and 1080p. They've done a good job fixing it. Your point was the PS3 was excellent. It was IF your AV equipment matched it's requirements. Remember 1080i and 720p is High Def too. When the PS3 didn't do those it wasn't fully high def compatible. That's why I disagreed with your statement that the PS3 has been excellent since launch. Again it's fixed and much better.

Also, it's hard to tell what exactly he compared. The Blu-Ray for Invincible on my PS3 is probably the fastest loading I've seen a few seconds I'd say under 15 total. 300 however is slow to load, well over a minute. Even the same movie may be different. The latest Harry Potter for example has HDi on the HD DVD and they didn't translate those features into BDj for the Blu-Ray. I bought the HD DVD because I wanted the interactivity to play with, very cool BTW. I should go rent the Blu and see if the load times vary. (Not a huge priority with Xmas) My guess is the Blu may be quicker because it doesn't have to cache up the additional interactivity. So, load times are not consistent. If the reviewer used a slower HD DVD and a faster Blu-Ray they may inadvertently create a situation that's exaggerated by the choice of movie.

@MikeB

PS3 UT3 launched this week. The #s at VGChartz for 12/15 show the 360 beating the PS3 by 10K units worldwide. 513K 360 and 503K PS3. I agreed with your expectation that UT3 would push the PS3 over the 360 again this week. Seems like we were both wrong.

@MikeB

Quote:

"Both players are atrociously slow at powering on and launching playback on their discs. "

I bought a Toshiba HD DVD player. I had no intention of going hi-def or choosing HD or Blue Ray at this point, but fell into the $98 deal on the day after Halloween. We needed another DVD player for a while, but had been puting it off and then this deal came up.

It's an HD-A2 and it functions no different and at no different speed than any other DVD player I've ever owned. Moved the Sony we had in the living room to a bed room.

Just by chance I found the "1" huge advantage I didn't even realize or would have considered when going BlueRay or HD-DVD is that all the HD-DVDs I have bought (only a few so far) also play on my other DVD players in the home. Which is great. Had I choosen to go BlueRay and I would have been stuck watching new movies in only one room and or buying the movie twice, one on BlueRay and once on DVD for the rest of the family to watch in other rooms. Now not all HD-DVDs are dual format, but lots are and it's pretty awsome way to slowly switch for now, if the format does win and if we end up getting more players down the line. If not, then at least I didn't waste money on these movies and have to throw them out They play in a BlueRay player too

Last edited by AmigaHeretic on 23-Dec-2007 at 07:03 AM.

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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@BrianK

Quote:

But, from what I read stand-alone Blu-Ray have slower load times then the PS3 too.

Could be, but there are so many different Blu-Ray players out there I am unable to confirm, but this and also high specs including HDMI 1.3 and 7.1 surround audio makes the PS3 one of the best (if not the best) Blu-Ray player out there.

I once read the HD DVD player for the 360 has bad load times as well.

Quote:

Yup and that's what I said too. But for early HDTV owners is the answer buy a new TV? Nope it's PS3 fix your outputs to include more then 480p and 1080p.

Quote:

Remember 1080i and 720p is High Def too.

AFAIK, 720p wasn't really a problem for Blu-Ray playback. They fixed the problem for 1080i sets merely to have this selectable for the end user. The PS3's priority was 1080p, if not supported it would default to 720p, if not supported 480p.

Anybody played Alien Syndrome for the Wii yet? Didn't get good reviews, but looks a damn lot like Alien Breed on the Amiga. Think it will be pretty cool with Wii controls and upto for 4 players. Can't wait to open up that Wii on Christmas!

I think the Wii might bring back some of that old Amiga and TurboGrafx/PcEngine fun of the old days. Can't wait!!

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A3000D (16mhz, 2MB Chip, 4MB Fast, SCSI (300+MB), SuperGen Genlock, Kick 3.1)
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Back in my day, we didn't have water. We only had Oxygen & Hydrogen, & we'd just shove 'em together

@BrianK

Quote:

PS3 UT3 launched this week. The #s at VGChartz for 12/15 show the 360 beating the PS3 by 10K units worldwide. 513K 360 and 503K PS3. I agreed with your expectation that UT3 would push the PS3 over the 360 again this week. Seems like we were both wrong.

Sadly Epic only made available a very limited supply for UT3's US launch. And the 10K is too small of a difference to come to conclusions, especially considering the following two reasons, VGChartz has been significantly overtracking the 360 for October by a much larger margin in comparison to NPD (161K, so about 40K a week) and although last month they did much better, they undertracked the PS3 by 27K and overtracked the 360 by 24K (so 51K difference combined, that's 12K per week difference).

Also VGchartz data is 10K less to the PS3's advantage than MediaCreate's data for Japan:

63,720 (MediaCreate PS3 ) vs 52,765 (VGChartz PS3)
8,561 (MediaCreate 360) vs 9,825 (VGChartz 360)

So a difference of 12,219 units, too close to call.

But one thing is certain the PS3 is enjoying excellent christmas sales like I predicted, I think the PS3 will win Christmas 2007 versus the 360, we will have to wait for NPDs figures for December to get a better view on things.

Last edited by MikeB on 23-Dec-2007 at 10:20 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

Sadly Epic only made available a very limited supply for UT3's US launch. And the 10K is too small of a difference to come to conclusions,

Too bad I hoped UT3 launch would be better. The PS3 isn't going to get the big boost right before Christmas.

@MikeB

NPD doesn't track all types of retailers or online sales.

"NPD, which collects its data primarily from retail sources and excludes most online and all direct sales".

Reference.
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9033302

Also Adobe has a while paper on NPD.
http://www.adobe.com/macromedia/ir/macr/whitepapers/npd_pos.pdf

Last edited by Hammer on 23-Dec-2007 at 09:46 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 23-Dec-2007 at 09:38 PM.

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@Hammer

I know, but NPD is probably the most reliable 3rd party source. I think the PS3 sales may well be most difficult for them to track as it's not only sold at just gaming orientated shops but also at more consumer electronics orientated retailers. Hopefully Sony will share their internal tracking data for December as well.