@Lou

Quote:

No but this was a minor issue with only 2 incidents

Even Microsoft admits the the risk was about 1 in 10,000 and with over 14 million cables replaced (as a bandaid but not a root fix to prevent further damage such as the console catching fire), so that's more than 2 incidents. Microsoft also admitted dozens of people suffered from injuries including skin burns and burnings of walls/carpets.

I don't understand why you and BrianK are so overly protective of Microsoft, they don't make many consumer electronics but so far their hardware projects have overall been not any better than their operating system efforts. Read the testimonials during the antitrust cases and ask yourself is this really a company with management that is worthy of your defense?

They ship anyway despite knowing problems ahead of launch without knowing exactly the cause, IMO that means profits >>>> safety / quality for Microsoft management!

And here you two guys are tag teaming on the way I word my messages and believe me you two don't set a good examples at all of how it should be done instead...

BrianK if you want me to reword many years for several years of denial, then I hereby eat those words and make it several instead of many. Jesus.

Last edited by MikeB on 09-Jul-2010 at 09:11 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 09-Jul-2010 at 08:58 AM.

@Lou

Quote:

If he doesn't own stock, he must be a distributor or retailer heavily invested in Sony products in some way, nothing else makes sense...

Nope, none of that. I am more a science / tech enthusiast type of person. Sony is one of various good consumer electronics companies.

I also don't claim Sony can do no things wrong like you claim (in fact I can provide proof of that while you can't back up those claims). Would that even make sense when employing well over 100,000 people worldwide (every single one of them with their personal flaws and everyone has his or her's unlucky moment in life)?

What I did do is try to put things into perspective (you guys demonizing Sony while glorifying Microsoft simply makes no sense), the reality is what Sony has done wrong as a company (and no releasing a 500/600 dollar console is not one of them ) is minor compared to Microsoft. Also what Sony has done good is major compared to the good things Microsoft has done as a company. I think this has to do with the management of both companies over the years and overall company mentality (which in part may be due to cultural differences).

Last edited by MikeB on 09-Jul-2010 at 10:15 AM.

@Lou

Quote:

If he doesn't own stock, he must be a distributor or retailer heavily invested in Sony products in some way, nothing else makes sense...

Maybe in your mind. I understand that sadly money is of great influence on power, the power to do good and evil.

I believe there is ability in all healthy people to do good. I don't need to be wealthy to be happy, I am more a socialist and a person who values greatly the world's environment. It makes me happy to make other people happy, especially my family and close friends. But I feel everyone is equal and everyone should ideally have equal oppertunities to pursue happiness in their lifes. I am not afraid of dying on a personal level, only of how this may effect other people.

I don't think making much money per se makes people happy, despite it can help especially if you use this to do good, but personally I can lead a modest life. I am a science/tech enthusiast due to my curious nature, I would like to know how stuff works down to the inner arrangements of atoms, up to the arrangements of distant galaxies. The meaning of life and the roots of our soul/being.

Now you know a little about me personally, I am not of the stockholder type.

Last edited by MikeB on 09-Jul-2010 at 10:50 AM.
Last edited by MikeB on 09-Jul-2010 at 10:11 AM.

@MikeB

Quote:

by MikeB on 9-Jul-2010 3:53:29 @Lou Quote: No but this was a minor issue with only 2 incidents Even Microsoft admits the the risk was about 1 in 10,000 and with over 14 million cables replaced (as a bandaid but not a root fix to prevent further damage such as the console catching fire), so that's more than 2 incidents. Microsoft also admitted dozens of people suffered from injuries including skin burns and burnings of walls/carpets. I don't understand why you and BrianK are so overly protective of Microsoft, they don't make many consumer electronics but so far their hardware projects have overall been not any better than their operating system efforts. Read the testimonials during the antitrust cases and ask yourself is this really a company with management that is worthy of your defense? They ship anyway despite knowing problems ahead of launch without knowing exactly the cause, IMO that means profits >>>> safety / quality for Microsoft management! And here you two guys are tag teaming on the way I word my messages and believe me you two don't set a good examples at all of how it should be done instead... BrianK if you want me to reword many years for several years of denial, then I hereby eat those words and make it several instead of many. Jesus.

When this was an issue, I can only recall 2 actual documented cases of an Xbox catching fire due to a power cord. The probability is just theory.
Now, the probability of someone turning on a PS3 and doing a system update and losing 'Other OS' is exactly 100%. Also, as I recall, Sony-made laptop in the field also numbered in the millions and the actual incidents were enough to get the US government involved.

Quote:

They ship anyway despite knowing problems ahead of launch without knowing exactly the cause, IMO that means profits >>>> safety / quality for Sony management!

Fixed that for you.

@Lou

Quote:

Now, the probability of someone turning on a PS3 and doing a system update and losing 'Other OS' is exactly 100%

Not exactly 100% if we want to be exact. But of course if you agree to the update OtherOS will be disabled, the reason being a hacker found a way to take control of the hypervisor, releasing the exploit to the public and discussing how it can be used for piracy. This exploit could also make the the PS3 vulnerable to viruses, trojans and other malware (so by disabling the PSN for un-updated consoles, risks are greatly reduced).

Quote:

Fixed that for you.

I thought Sony actually lost hundreds of dollars per console sold for a couple of years.

No, there's enough evidence that Sony including many other companies don't place profits above safety / quality. Of course they are a company and need to stay in business, it's not a charity. This is in the best interest of consumers as well as in the best interest of its employees.

@MikeB

Quote:

BrianK if you want me to reword many years for several years of denial, then I hereby eat those words and make it several instead of many.

MikeB we simply want a semi-realistic reflection on a product. What shows is you, for whatever reason, have a clear hatred of Microsoft. I know you love the Amiga like all of us. What I view is not so much that Microsoft beat the Amiga. It's that Medhi Ali and his cronies didn't know how to manage a company. Great Engineering, bad Management. It takes both working well to make a successful product.

Even this Quote:

they don't make many consumer electronics but so far their hardware projects have overall been not any better than their operating system efforts

Their OSes have a roughly 80% marketshare. Clearly there is something people like about these products. What Microsoft knows is software. IMO the consoles displayed this. 360 OS and online services, the software components, were way above the PS3. PS3 on the other hand was half baked at launch. After the best part of a year to a year and half it finally came into something that didn't feel like beta. (I'll even exaggerate a bit and say alpha.)

We all agree Microsoft has had their problems. It's not like Sony hasn't had theirs. Keeping on the software vein how about the OS updates that caused 'RRoD' of the PS3. Or how about the OS Updates that caused people to lose saved games from the PS3. That isn't good quality control either.

I think you misinterprete Lou and I. It seems you view showing you how Sony hasn't been the perfect player either as a defense of Microsoft. It's an attempt to get you to take two steps back and realize that neither company is perfect.


Quote:

the update OtherOS will be disabled, the reason being a hacker found a way to take control of the hypervisor, releasing the exploit to the public and discussing how it can be used for piracy

So let me understand you. You claimed removing Linux was good as it prevented hacking. Only to have the diabling of the OS hacked to ensuring hacking? The result here is Sony had no impact on hackers and gave legit users a headache. Another example of Sony's poor customer service.

Quote:

Of course they are a company and need to stay in business, it's not a charity.

Well, except for the PS3 ate the profits of the PS2 and helped push them closer to a charity

@Lou

Quote:

When this was an issue, I can only recall 2 actual documented cases of an Xbox catching fire due to a power cord. The probability is just theory

Insurance industry calcuates the probability of damage. It doesn't always match reality. And it doesn't mean it will happen to you. So yes the 1:10,000 was a likelihood of possible problems.

Again MikeB is exaggeration man. He states replacing the faulty product a band-aid?

The Sony battery problem is taking "many" years to weed out. In 2006 Apple forced Sony to take back a bunch of batteries. Toshiba was impacted that same year. In 2008 Acer and Dell had a Sony battery recall. Now in 2010 there's yet another battery recall.

Here's one example of what an exploding laptop battery can do. LINK

@Thread

A week to go before the glossy 'stealth' XBox 360 250Gb is on sale!! I've just bought a 2nd hand TV the has a DVI socket but might not be HDCP compliant. I've heard the XBox VGA cable does a great job of displaying HD resolutions without having to worry about HDCP compliance!! A VGA to DVI cable is easy to source so this could be my best gaming option. Has the PS3 got this option?

I watched 'Alice in Wonderland 2 weekends ago on Blu-Ray and although sharper on a 40' TV it probably wouldn't benefit me on my 32" so I'll stick with DVD tech. HD gaming via a VGA cable would be cool though!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BrianK

Quote:

Again MikeB is exaggeration man. He states replacing the faulty product a band-aid?

Because the original power cords weren't faulty according to experts.

Quote:

The Sony battery problem is taking "many" years to weed out.

It's not only a Sony problem and rechargeable batteries are risky to begin with. I trust Sony far more with regard to producing batteries than I would Microsoft.

Again this does not relate to home consoles or the bulk of Sony consumer electronics. Sony covers a lot of bases. For some reason mostly the US media and consumers concentrate a lot on a few controversies surrounding Sony, but one could also focus on their many success stories, innovations, award winning products and excellent general reputation including environmental accomplishments.

The true full picture lies somewhere in between.

@BrianK

Quote:

Their OSes have a roughly 80% marketshare. Clearly there is something people like about these products.

There aren't many viable options today. It's not that hard to understand why I buy a Windows powered laptop, the bulk of people use one. It allows me to be compatible with almost everything, this does not mean I like Windows at all as a product.

Microsoft got big due to IBM picking them for MSDOS (a product the author, the called Quick & Dirty OS, copied from CP/M down to the source codes). It was not a good product, but computers were new to many people. IBM and later endless amount of clone makers did massive marketing. This is how MIcrosoft got big.

Linux lacks proper standards and isn't that different. Apple is a bit different as well, but is overpriced for many people. Ans Apple isn't tat much better. It's 2010 but desktop computers today are a far cry I imagined them to be at this point during the 80s.

Year-to-date Japanese hardware sales:
DS - 1,180,325
PSP - 1,101,666
Wii - 818,945
PS3 - 756,325
Xbox 360 - 105,969
PS2 - 45,372

@BigD

Quote:

I've just bought a 2nd hand TV the has a DVI socket but might not be HDCP compliant. I've heard the XBox VGA cable does a great job of displaying HD resolutions without having to worry about HDCP compliance!! A VGA to DVI cable is easy to source so this could be my best gaming option. Has the PS3 got this option

HDMI is a descent of DVI. HDMI adds audio to the cable and tighter HDCP.

I've had the same Samsung DLP TV the whole time with my 360. I have used component, VGA, and this year HDMI to DVI. There is basically nothing to worry about with the 360 and HDCP compliance. HDCP comes into play for HD content not games. Downloaded movies from Zune or Netflix don't use HDCP, AFAIK, and therefore aren't a problem. (or if they do they work fine on my HDMI to DVI setup)

As for the PS3 you can use HDMI to DVI. Games should work without a problem, again no HDCP. HD content is a slightly different story. If you use Blu-Ray it seems more movies desire HDCP compliance. If the PS3 has properly implemented the standard you will need a proper HDCP setup for these movies. Assuming your TV is DVI/HDCP you'll need to ensure the HDMI to DVI converter can properly transfer the HDCP between the different connectors.

As for VGA on the PS3 there are 3rd party adapters. If worried about HDCP you'll, of course, need to ensure your TV is VGA/HDCP compliant. Many monitors, for example, aren't. Then of course the VGA cabling to PS3 setup will have to ensure that HDCP is properly transferred. Again gaming on the PS3 shouldn't be a problem. You might have some Blu-Ray issues. I'd recommend borrowing a friend's PS3 and getting some HDCP compliant Blu-Rays and giving it a shot.

In case you were wondering what I used for HDMI wiring it comes from Monoprice.com. I have their HDMI switcher with toslink audio out to my receiver. I bought some of their cables, because they're inexpensive and good quality. I also have a DVI to HDMI adapter on the back of my TV.

@BrianK

Thank you! The second hand market is a nightmare!! Good thing I haven't invested in Sky HD or anything. I'm tempted by the XBox 360 now. The PS3 would onlt be worth it if I was able to utilise BluRay and from this thread I'm limited to 480i with component leads and the included DVI socket isn't HDCP!!

LG RZ-32LZ50 is not HD Ready!!!

Last edited by BigD on 09-Jul-2010 at 03:24 PM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: When this was an issue, I can only recall 2 actual documented cases of an Xbox catching fire due to a power cord. The probability is just theory Insurance industry calcuates the probability of damage. It doesn't always match reality. And it doesn't mean it will happen to you. So yes the 1:10,000 was a likelihood of possible problems. Again MikeB is exaggeration man. He states replacing the faulty product a band-aid? The Sony battery problem is taking "many" years to weed out. In 2006 Apple forced Sony to take back a bunch of batteries. Toshiba was impacted that same year. In 2008 Acer and Dell had a Sony battery recall. Now in 2010 there's yet another battery recall. Here's one example of what an exploding laptop battery can do. LINK

He has blinders on.
Somehow MS killing babies >>>>>>> Sony killing babies...

@BigD

You are welcome. Quite often HDCP was not implemented on DVI. Companies got together to enforce HDCP on the replacement of DVI, HDMI. HDCP does nothing for the consumer but give us headaches like the LG TV scenario. It was made to make digital content harder to copy.

I know the PS3 has had issues with 720p sets in the past. At one point the PS3 wouldn't scale to 720p. Some games and Blu-Rays would be 1080p or downscale to 480p. The TV set would then scale the 480p up to 720p. I believe Sony has since patched this issue. My PS3 is on my 1080p Viewsonic so I can't easily test this. The 360 didn't have such problems.

Did a bit of digging for HDCP and games. Seems to me this would be something manufactures would love to do too. I found some reports of the PS3 with Dead Space giving people HDCP error issues. So perhaps PS3 games are using starting to use HDCP?

Again if you have a friend with a PS3 it may be best to see if you can borrow it for a weekend and see how well it works.

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Jul-2010 at 04:16 PM.

@Lou

Quote:

Somehow MS killing babies >>>>>>> Sony killing babies...

Sony did it through a trojan horse in a rootkit so it's okay.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: Somehow MS killing babies >>>>>>> Sony killing babies... Sony did it through a trojan horse in a rootkit so it's okay.

The list of Sony f*ck-ups is so long, but we should just bow down to Sony and worship because MikeB is a philanthopist and hence Sony must be and not the historically money-grubbing corporation that they have proven themselves to be...

Yes, MS is also after your $$$ but no one here is claiming Bill Gates wears a HALO. (pun intended)

@Lou

Quote:

The list of Sony f*ck-ups is so long, but we should just bow down to Sony and worship because MikeB is a philanthopist and hence Sony must be and not the historically money-grubbing corporation that they have proven themselves to be...

Sony does a lot of things, has released so many different kinds of products with so many different kinds of models, surely the list of mistakes of the various divisions will be larger than for a company which does next to nothing.

Their list of awards is also exceptionaly large and boy do they have an interesting background story on how they became this huge mega company. You decide to concentrate on the former, I look at both and try to make it clear that IMO iit's not that black & white as you put it.



Sure it sucks a production run of Sony batteries went wrong due to metallic contamination and the involved people should have done their work better to prevent this. However one cannot deny Sony's positive role with regard to modern batteries, the company certainly has the in-house expertise to produce quality batteries. Remember Sony's introduction of the first commercial version of the Lithium ion battery was a big step for various kinds of consumer products. The rechargeable lithium ion battery was desgined by Sony in the 80s and is in mass use today.

Sony is a good brand for batteries, if you lost faith in their batteries then don't buy them. But it's not for nothing that this problem involved a lot of batteries supplied with Laptops from so many different companies, that's because Sony is a very big battery supplier.

The faulthy batteries however does not make Ken Kutaragi's baby a stillbirth and neither does it really effect other divisions in quality. The PS3 is performing well and I think it will only get better from here on.

Last edited by MikeB on 09-Jul-2010 at 08:04 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 09-Jul-2010 at 08:01 PM.

@ Lou / BrianK

Sony tries to innovate further with the developmetn of Bio batteries, it generates electricity from glucose:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200708/07-074E/index.html

@MikeB

Quote:

MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: The list of Sony f*ck-ups is so long, but we should just bow down to Sony and worship because MikeB is a philanthopist and hence Sony must be and not the historically money-grubbing corporation that they have proven themselves to be... Sony does a lot of things, has released so many different kinds of products with so many different kinds of models, surely the list of mistakes of the various divisions will be larger than for a company which does next to nothing. Their list of awards is also exceptionaly large and boy do they have an interesting background story on how they became this huge mega company. You decide to concentrate on the former, I look at both and try to make it clear that IMO iit's not that black & white as you put it. Sure it sucks a production run of Sony batteries went wrong due to metallic contamination and the involved people should have done their work better to prevent this. However one cannot deny Sony's positive role with regard to modern batteries, the company certainly has the in-house expertise to produce quality batteries. Remember Sony's introduction of the first commercial version of the Lithium ion battery was a big step for various kinds of consumer products. The rechargeable ilithium ion battery was desgined by Sony in the 80s and is in mass use today. Sony is a good brand for batteries, if you lost faith in their batteries then don't buy them. But it's not for nothing that this problem involved a lot of batteries supplied with Laptops from so many different companies, that's because Sony is a very big battery supplier. The faulthy batteries however does not make Ken Kutaragi's baby a stillbirth and neither does it really effect other divisions in quality. The PS3 is performing well and I think it will only get better from here on.

I haven't lost faith in Sony batteries just like I didn't lose faith in MS consoles because some idiots in China build crap for foreign companies.

As for your bio-battery, recall this is a gaming thread, can you please limit your Sony propaganda to the gaming division? Sony batteries were only brought into the discussion when you called MS a babykiller.

PS,
Do note that I have, indeed, lost faith in Sony consoles.

Last edited by Lou on 09-Jul-2010 at 10:15 PM.