@BigD

360 HDCP Issue with HD Streams.

As the PS3 seems a bit more finicky with HDCP I'd presume the same issue exists.

Last edited by BrianK on 10-Jul-2010 at 02:13 AM.

@Lou

Quote:

I haven't lost faith in Sony batteries just like I didn't lose faith in MS consoles because some idiots in China build crap for foreign companies.

Maybe a majority of electronics is built in China/Taiwan, a lot of those Chinese factories are run by western managers. Microsoft is to blame for bad design of the XBox 360, if any components were to blame then why did the problems last for so many years? Think about it for a moment! It was primarily a design problem, the fact that Microsoft only bought the cheapest and lowest quality components they could find compounded the situation. The original manufacturers are still building all of Microsoft's electronics!

Some key quotes (Microsoft insider):

"Low yields always indicate serious design and manufacturing defects. Management chose to continue to ship anyways"

"Whenever something failed and there was a question about whether the test result was false, they would remove that test, retest and ship, or see if the unit would boot a game and run briefly and then ship."

"The main design flaw was the excessive heat on the GPU warping the mother board around it. This would stress the solder joints on the GPU and any bad joints would then fail in early life.

There are also other significantly high failure rates in other areas, like the DVD."

Some key quotes (Component manufacturers):

"Asian Xbox 360 manufacturers are blaming poor console design cheap components and a lack of testing"

"One Asian manufacturer that SmartHouse spoke to on Friday said "Microsoft have known of this problem for a long time. They are trying to blame component manufacturers but it was a combination of bad design and them (Microsoft) wanting everything cheap."

"A lot of manufacturers were pushed to deliver components without much testing of the components working together inside the console"

Please let's stay truthful about this. The easy way is to move manufacturing to another country and put the blame there, it doesn't make sense. Microsoft is to blame for this, it's clear and simple if you look at the big picture.

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Sony batteries were only brought into the discussion when you called MS a babykiller.

You called the original XBox an example of a good product while Playstations are bad. Thus pointing this out was the most logical step to take. The steps you and BrianK took to counter this wasn't logical.

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Do note that I have, indeed, lost faith in Sony consoles.

Whatever, good for you. Meanwhile Sony consoles continue to perform well globallly.

@MikeB

My employer has Chinese suppliers. We've had issues with poor raw material quality and products 'not matching the print exactly'.

So basically, you may be right, but MS did throw some blame on the manufacturer/suppliers. Having seen Chinese quality first had, I'm more likely to believe MS. Perhaps the boards were too thin, the solder bad and the fans not spinning to max designed rpm. All very valid quality issues with Chinese manufactures who also look to cut their costs to help their bottom line.

I'm sure the Sony battery issue could be related to the same sort of thing.

Quote:

Whatever, good for you. Meanwhile Sony consoles continue to perform well globallly.

I think 'well-enough' is a better term. Going from #1 to #3 doesn't sound exactly 'well' to me.

@MikeB

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Microsoft is to blame for bad design of the XBox 360, if any components were to blame then why did the problems last for so many years?

At the end of the day Microsoft is to blame. It's their product and their project. Even if the problems exist in manufacturing it's up to Microsoft to ensure it's caught promptly and fixed.

What we do know is when the problem was large enough that Microsoft extended warranties to 3 years, credited customers, and applied fixes (which were more or less successful) to future manufacturing. What we now see is the past 1-2 years Microsoft has been working at testing and designing a new 360. What we see clearly is the problem is being dealt with along with coverage extended to something more realistic. I believe it was you that posted the statistics that demonstrated while the problem was unresolved it was improved.

Trusting unproven rumors, your sited anonymous accuser, isn't truthful either.


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You called the original XBox an example of a good product while Playstations are bad.

Outside a bad power source the original Xbox was a much more quality product than the PS2, there is no doubt about this. Yet Sony has failed to extend warranties, cover costs, or admit that their console was flawed. Sony has had numerous other flawed products too. Batteries, cameras, and withdrawing features of the PS3. The later we're now seeing class action lawsuits because PS3 owners feel wronged by Sony. Sony isn't perfect with their consoles either.

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Meanwhile Sony consoles continue to perform well globallly.

It'd have been interesting to see if Microsoft didn't have the problems with the 360 what impact that would have had in the market. My bet is the 360 would be more popular as the worry of a flawed console would be eliminated. (For example we see BigD clearly, and rightly, worried about this.) In turn Sony would be in an even farther in last place this generation.

PS3 performing well? Not in profits. And not compared to the PS2. Sony clearly has lost position from last generation. I'd call it performing adequately but considerably less than their #1 showing of the past.

EDIT: This many years after launch the PS2 had the #1 slot tied up. The PS3 is no where close to #1 and in a fight to reach #2.

Last edited by BrianK on 10-Jul-2010 at 02:28 PM.

It looks to me that Sony is about to commit the same sins for the PS4 as they did in the PS3...

Sony states :“Naturally, in my opinion, Microsoft will make the first move. Or, because Nintendo’s approach was not to upgrade much on its basic hardware – Wii doesn’t even support HD resolution – so they might be the first to move,” Yoshida told the Mag when asked why Sony hadn’t discussed the PS4 publicly as yet.

Sony is a good competitor. It seems they are planning to be a late comer next generation too. IMO a bad plan. It's often the one that starts the new generation which profits the most. You know profit the reason companies are in business. For example, NPD displays the 360 as driving the most profits currently.

In the 7th gen there were various innovations... Wii drove new controls, 360 and PS3 are playing catch up. The PS3 drove Blu-Ray, likely to be in the 8th gen consoles. The 360 drove HD, online, and the acheivement system. The PS3 was/is playing catch up there. One has to wonder what the next gen consoles will bring to the table. And why does Sony feel that being last is the winning strategy.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: It looks to me that Sony is about to commit the same sins for the PS4 as they did in the PS3... Sony states :“Naturally, in my opinion, Microsoft will make the first move. Or, because Nintendo’s approach was not to upgrade much on its basic hardware – Wii doesn’t even support HD resolution – so they might be the first to move,” Yoshida told the Mag when asked why Sony hadn’t discussed the PS4 publicly as yet. Sony is a good competitor. It seems they are planning to be a late comer next generation too. IMO a bad plan. It's often the one that starts the new generation which profits the most. You know profit the reason companies are in business. For example, NPD displays the 360 as driving the most profits currently. In the 7th gen there were various innovations... Wii drove new controls, 360 and PS3 are playing catch up. The PS3 drove Blu-Ray, likely to be in the 8th gen consoles. The 360 drove HD, online, and the acheivement system. The PS3 was/is playing catch up there. One has to wonder what the next gen consoles will bring to the table. And why does Sony feel that being last is the winning strategy.

This follows exactly with my reasoning that they are skipping the 'next-gen' and really pushing the PS3 as the low cost option thru gen 8 and hence a 10 year life-cycle.

Nintendo has stated that it's next console will be targetted towards hard-core gamers. It has learned how to market itself to the non-gamer, so now it is going to be time to re-establish itself in other segments and bring 3rd party support back - the 3DS is the beginning of this stragedy. It has garnered hardcore 3rd party support with a vengance.

Let's hope for a multi-core Power7 cpu.

@Lou

Quote:

This follows exactly with my reasoning that they are skipping the 'next-gen' and really pushing the PS3 as the low cost option thru gen 8 and hence a 10 year life-cycle.

At this point the PS3 has given up the lead position of the PS2. It's eaten the profits. Unless something magical happens here the PS3 must push a 10 year life-cycle if Sony wants it's money back. It does sound like being the low cost leader against the 8th gen consoles is the way Sony believes it can do this.

The reason the PS2 continues to sell is three fold. First it's the #1 console of last gen. Second it's the #1 console of all time. And third it's reliability is less than perfect. The PS3 has none of these things. IMO it's harder to extend the #3 product to have such a long lifespan.

One other unknown is what will other companies do with their 7th gen consoles. Nintendo usually doesn't run 2 consoles at the same time. But, they are #1 they might be easier to do this. Certainly the Wii costs are lower than the PS3 or 360 and a price cut would mean profits. Cut, the price of the PS3 and Sony takes on losses again. Microsoft I see as an unknown. We know they stated a 10 year lifespan for the 360. We know they are presently leading the profits in the US. While not #1 it's easier to keep a console around when it's a profit maker. A price cut here means less profits, not losses. I think it might be easy for Microsoft to have 2 consoles on the market at the same time. This means the PS3 will continue to struggle for #2 against the 360. In short, Sony's view of being the lone 7th gen console selling when the 8th gen launches may not be reality. We'll see when that happens.

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Let's hope for a multi-core Power7 cpu.

Undoubtably multi-core is a certainy in the next generation. Power7 is impressive but the dodeca processors are no slouch either. The winner of 7th gen, without a doubt, is IBM. They make all 3 console CPUs. With the popularity of gaming machines I can see Intel and AMD trying to break into the market. Imagine making 1 CPU and selling about 8-10Million a year for a decade is fairly profit driven. With the exception of the GPU on die with the CPU of the 360 S model all other CPUs have seen die shrinks but no added features. A die shrink has to be cheaper than designin a shrink + improvement, likely why Intel uses their 'tick-tock' methodology.

@MikeB

You were asking why use chat or text on the console instead of a cellphone with data plan? I explained the high cost in the US for data plans. Here's a good article - How that $200 phone really costs $3200

@BrianK

Looks like the new 'Slim Arcade' 360 will come with 4GB of internal flash. Aug 20.

Now if only the Wii would come with more than 512MB...

@BrianK

Quote:

As the PS3 seems a bit more finicky with HDCP I'd presume the same issue exists.

I got the model of my LG wrong! It's actually a RZ-32LZ55 which should be HDCP compliant on the DVI connector! Looks like a DVI to HDMI adaptor is the way to go!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD
If the DVI is HDCP capable then you should be set without worries. What a headache to prevent would be hackers from recording digital video. And HDCP doesn't even stop it if one really, really wants to do it.

@Lou
Slim Arcade w/ 4GB? Sounds like a good idea. MikeB was worried that the Arcade just wasn't 'ready' for online gaming. 4GB is more then enough for several save games and downloaded content. And of course there's now the option to use 16GB USB Memory or a small USB Harddrive.

I suspect next gen we'll see SSDs shipping in consoles. Less movement, faster, and lower temps. The problem is cost, which is certain to improve over the next 3 years.

@MikeB
5 things hardcore gamers need to get over

@Lou

For June, according to NPD for the US -- " The new Xbox 360 sold 451,700 units for the month, the Wii sold 422,000 units, and the PS3 moved 304,800 units."

In handhelds and netted gaming Nintendo is still #1 -- "The Nintendo DS sold 510,700 units and the PSP sold 121,000..."

NPD is also predicting Move and Kinect will spur Christmas sales. Christmas 2010 will be interesting to watch. Do the Move and Kinect increase sales more than last year? Which one will consumers choose, or is it none? People predict Sony to pull ahead of Microsoft every Christmas, will it happen? Will casual gamers really switch from the Wii? Will the world's down economy give more weight to the lower cost console w/ lower cost games? Our popcorn is on.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou For June, according to NPD for the US -- " The new Xbox 360 sold 451,700 units for the month, the Wii sold 422,000 units, and the PS3 moved 304,800 units." In handhelds and netted gaming Nintendo is still #1 -- "The Nintendo DS sold 510,700 units and the PSP sold 121,000..." NPD is also predicting Move and Kinect will spur Christmas sales. Christmas 2010 will be interesting to watch. Do the Move and Kinect increase sales more than last year? Which one will consumers choose, or is it none? People predict Sony to pull ahead of Microsoft every Christmas, will it happen? Will casual gamers really switch from the Wii? Will the world's down economy give more weight to the lower cost console w/ lower cost games? Our popcorn is on.

01. DS: 510,700
02. 360: 451,700
03. Wii: 422,500
04. PS3: 304,800
05. PSP: 121,000

I *think* this is only the 2nd time that the Wii has not led..

They say that the Slim% was 40% and the rest were the discounted Arcade and Elite bundles. Price is king it seems.

Software:
01. Red Dead Redemption (Take-Two, Xbox 360) - 582,900
02. Super Mario Galaxy 2 (Nintendo, Wii) - 548,400
03. Red Dead Redemption (Take-Two, PS3) - 380,300
04. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo, Wii) - 200,900
05. Just Dance (Ubisoft, Wii) - 174,800
06. Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo, Wii) - 148,000
07. Toy Story 3 (Disney, NDS) - 164,000
08. UFC 2010: Undisputed (THQ, Xbox 360)
09. LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4 (Warner Bros., Wii), 136,000
10. UFC 2010: Undisputed (THQ, PS3)

In 2 months SMG2 has hit 1.1 M units in sales. Look at Just Dance and Lego Harry Potter... :)

Software down 8% year over year, only PS3 posted a mild improvement in software sales.

Wii has hit 30M in the US, a milestone.

@Lou

Where's the PS2 on the hardware list? Pretty rude they removed it from the listings! What happened to Lego Harry Potter on the PS2?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Lou Where's the PS2 on the hardware list? Pretty rude they removed it from the listings! What happened to Lego Harry Potter on the PS2?

A month or 3 ago, NPD decided sales weren't significant enough to track PS2 anymore and made such an announcement.

The only people buying PS2's these days is people looking to replace broken ones.

I can't think of any current PS2 titles that the Wii doesn't also get. There is no future in the PS2 market. Does Sony even develop PS2 software anymore? Probably only 3rd parties...

@Lou

Quote:

I can't think of any current PS2 titles that the Wii doesn't also get. There is no future in the PS2 market. Does Sony even develop PS2 software anymore? Probably only 3rd parties...

I don't know why they bothered with the las wave of software if I'm honest! They didn't promote Wipeout Pulse or MotorStorm:Arctic Edge. The last new game I saw was the Silent Hill one! The PS2 could easily continue to compete with the Wii but without the gimmicks!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Lou

James Bond question. MGM Studio is near bankruptcy. They cancelled the pending Bond project. I wonder how licensing might effect the two pending Bond games. It'd be nice to see a new Golden Eye.

So are we going for the longest running thread in amiga history or what? I'll contribute, then.

I like PS3. At least it comes with a BluRay player, and network gaming is free. But the Wii wand is pretty cool, too.

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote: @Lou James Bond question. MGM Studio is near bankruptcy. They cancelled the pending Bond project. I wonder how licensing might effect the two pending Bond games. It'd be nice to see a new Golden Eye.

Licensing Golden Eye seems like free income. I don't think that will be affected as it costs them nothing.