@Lou

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Yeah, until ONE standard is established, I'll stay away.

Standards are generally good things.

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Heck, I wouldn't even complain if consoles went the way of the 3DO with a common reference point with multiple manufacturers.

I can't see Sony nor Nintendo with that approach. Microsoft might be the only possibility.

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Lately though, my Wii have been my NETFLIX device

We prefer the console interface for Netflix over the PC.

@BrianK

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BrianK wrote: @Lou Quote: Lately though, my Wii have been my NETFLIX device We prefer the console interface for Netflix over the PC.

I just throw things on my instant queue via the PC then stream from the Wii. The *spare* PC I had on the TV has a corrupted windows System.dat file.

OMG this is still going.....thread 6, what a difference a year makes lol

So as to stay on topic, I like my xbox 360, my PS3 and my Wii...they all have weaknesses and strengths and I'm a happy bunny having them here.

_________________

Kinect patents request are freed. LINK One cool thing is the Kinect is able to process sign-language as an input method.

SIDE NOTE: Which is cool to me as my brother is deaf. I've signed for about 90% of my life. I consider it a 2nd language. Seem to me this'll be a natural transistion.

For the time of the year the PS3 and PSP performed remarkably in Japan last week according to Media Create (includes the release of a new 320 GB model PS3):

1) Sony PSP: 49,380
2) Sony PS3: 45,224
3) Nintendo DS: 45.128
4) Nintendo Wii: 20,038

Also interesting according to a DigitalSpy survey 64% of PS3 owners intend to buy Playstation Move and 23% of XBox 360 owners intend to buy Kinect (still suprised by this number and makes one wonder if they saw the Kinect games shown or are still riding yesteryear's Milo overhype crap).

Last edited by MikeB on 07-Aug-2010 at 02:55 PM.

@BrianK

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One cool thing is the Kinect is able to process sign-language as an input method.

The source article (by GoRumors) of the article you linked to didn't mention anything about American Sign Language support at all. At least I couldn't find it.

Of course such support would make sense, but even if this is indeed Microsoft's plan it remains to be seen how well this will be implemented and how useful it will be to deaf ASL speakers.

A filed patent does not per se mean such a feature will be granted (many companies have already filed such patents) and/or indeed implemented before launch / this console generation. For example we know Sony has patents for reading brainwaves and neurological sensory stimulation of the human brain through ultrasonic transducers. This could some day become useful to the blind gamers amongst us!

@MikeB
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Also interesting according to a DigitalSpy survey 64% of PS3 owners intend to buy Playstation Move and 23% of XBox 360 owners intend to buy Kinect (still suprised by this number and makes one wonder if they saw the Kinect games shown or are still riding yesteryear's Milo overhype crap).

minor point the survey was covered in digitalspy but by groupola. The validity of any online poll is of question. Sales of new users is what i am interested in.

From the same article: However, 63% of respondents agreed that both peripherals are unlikely to impact the dominance of the Nintendo Wii in the motion-control space.

@BrianK

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However, 63% of respondents agreed that both peripherals are unlikely to impact the dominance of the Nintendo Wii in the motion-control space.

I don't think that's a risky prediction, there are way more Wii's out there than PS3s at this point. Even if the Wii is soon discontinued it will take considerable time for the PS3 to overtake the Wii's install base (let alone the amount of people who also own Playstation Move).

However I consider this good, because I don't want Move to be the PS3's primary controller. I hope developers will only support Move where Move makes sense and not like you see with many games on the Wii.

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: For the time of the year the PS3 and PSP performed remarkably in Japan last week according to Media Create (includes the release of a new 320 GB model PS3): 1) Sony PSP: 49,380 2) Sony PS3: 45,224 3) Nintendo DS: 45.128 4) Nintendo Wii: 20,038 Also interesting according to a DigitalSpy survey 64% of PS3 owners intend to buy Playstation Move and 23% of XBox 360 owners intend to buy Kinect (still suprised by this number and makes one wonder if they saw the Kinect games shown or are still riding yesteryear's Milo overhype crap).

Such bumps in hardware sales always occur when new models are released. I didn't feel it newsworthy, but rather expected.

It also co-insided with 2 new titles being released that took #1 and #2:

01. Sengoku Basara 3 (PS3, Capcom) – 243,000 / New
02. Hatsune Miku: Project Diva 2 (PSP, Sega) – 241,000 / New
03. Wii Party (Wii, Nintendo) – 83,000
04. Kamen Rider Battle: Ganbaride Card Battle Taisen (DS, Bandai Namco) – 64,000 / New
05. Sengoku Basara 3 (Wii, Capcom) – 50,000 / New
06. Metal Max 3 (DS, Kadokawa Shoten) – 47,000 / New
07. Inazuma Eleven 3: World Challenge!! Spark / Bomber (DS, Level 5) – 34,000
08. Ys Vs. Sora no Kiseki: Alternative Saga (PSP, Nihon Falcom) – 30,000 / New
09. Jikkyou Powerful Pro Baseball 2010 (PSP, Konami) – 22,000
10. Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem (DS, Nintendo) – 21,000

Suprised you didn't mention the ratio on the Wii veriosn @ #5 to PS3's #1.

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: @BrianK Quote: However, 63% of respondents agreed that both peripherals are unlikely to impact the dominance of the Nintendo Wii in the motion-control space. I don't think that's a risky prediction, there are way more Wii's out there than PS3s at this point. Even if the Wii is soon discontinued it will take considerable time for the PS3 to overtake the Wii's install base (let alone the amount of people who also own Playstation Move). However I consider this good, because I don't want Move to be the PS3's primary controller. I hope developers will only support Move where Move makes sense and not like you see with many games on the Wii.

Well that only makes sense ofcourse since the installed base for Move is currently 0.
What's so hard about making games that offer multiple controller options? Wii games typically offer non-motion options such as Classic Controller or Gamecube controller support.

I play Monster Hunter 3 with the Classic Controller.

Also, alot of Wii games use the "waggle" as another button. For instance, on on-rails shooters, a shake of the remote reloads your gun. On some platformers, jumping is done that way but the rest of the game is played with the D-pad and 1+2 buttons.

Typically, only the "party" games force you into motion controls since their basis for existence is the motion controller.

Personally, I thought the instances in Metroid Prime 3 where motion controls were required added immersion to the game because it made you feel you were directly manipulation in-game objects in 1st person. I also like the grenade lob ability of the nunchuk which is used for in FPS games and the passing ability of the Wii remote in the Madden games that enhanced the immersion of games.

You will finally get to experience what has made gaming on the Wii more *fun* than the HD systems. Congrats to you.

@Lou

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You will finally get to experience what has made gaming on the Wii more *fun* than the HD systems. Congrats to you.

For me motion control gaming was already fun in the early 90s for specific games including stereoscopic 3D and head tracking. I didn't need a Wii to understand motion controls in certain settings can add a lot to providing a more immersive experience.

Same with regard to touchscreen functionality as provided on the Nintendo DS. Maybe Nintendo fanboys needed the DS to understand the possibilities, but I already played many touchscreen games in the arcades (including card ganes, arkanoid, mahjong, etc) and on PDAs (including various AmigaAnywhere games) long before I bought 2 Nintendo DSes.

@MikeB

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e source article (by GoRumors) of the article you linked to didn't mention anything about American Sign Language support at all. At least I couldn't find it.

The source, the patent of the source, Go Rumors talks about sign language and ASL

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and how useful it will be to deaf ASL speakers

One example is in the patent -- "Here, the user 502 is making the ASL gesture for "cat," which is captured by the depth camera 506. This gesture may be interpreted as if the user had typed the work "cat" on a keyboard."

Remember the Kinect accepts voice commands. If a handicapped user is unable to produce a voice or the voice is so severly restricted as to produce a false result what would an alternative be? Sign is a great option.

The question is how far can or did the Kinect take this. I first learned signed english. This type of visual language is rarely used by deaf people. It has a 1 to 1 correlation to english. One signs every word, in the same order, endings to words -'ed', 'ing' - are used. ASL I learned about a decade later. It's very different. For example. If you wanted to say 'I went to the store' there is a number of different ways to convey this idea. One example might be 'store, point to location, home me, point to location, make a driving car movement betwen the two locations, finish'. I'd think the depth required to do the translation between these two would be quite difficult. Using it to say 'Xbox play DVD' though would be fairly straight forward and I think be not too difficult to take over for many simple voice commands.

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A filed patent does not per se mean such a feature will be granted (many companies have already filed such patents) and/or indeed implemented before launch / this console generation.

What it does convey is a possible direction where the designer thinks the invention can eventually achieve. Unlike your cited brainwave thingie from Sony the Kinect, some of these foundations, are right around the corner.

Last edited by BrianK on 08-Aug-2010 at 02:15 PM.

@BrianK

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Using it to say 'Xbox play DVD' though would be fairly straight forward and I think be not too difficult to take over for many simple voice commands.

I hope they will have something more impressive to show at some point. Wouldn't a remote control with single button press be more desireable for such simple commands?

Sure being able to say "XBox shut off", "XBox play DVD", etc sounds cool/futuristic to fanboys and certainly voice/speech recognition is part of evolving technology. But I'm not quite convinced this will be without issues with Kinect based on what Microsoft has shown so far.

Hype is one thing, but I am more interested in the practical usefullness vs for example a remote control. Is it more efficient to turn of my PS3 saying "PS3 shutdown" compared to holding the PS button and pressing X. Will it ask for my confirmation if someone else outs such a command? Will it be dialect friendly, support different languages and work properly with background noise?

@BrianK

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Unlike your cited brainwave thingie from Sony the Kinect, some of these foundations, are right around the corner.

Actually there are already products for the PS3 and other consoles which already provide neurofeedback based on monitored brainwaves when playing games. For example SmartBrain technologies has a product available (based on NASA research) for kids with ADHD problems. You can for example play Need for Speed on the PS3 and the car will go faster the more the child concentrates.

@MikeB

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I hope they will have something more impressive to show at some point. Wouldn't a remote control with single button press be more desireable for such simple commands?

The answer here is .. it depends.. Did you ever have your remote disappear? After 10 minutes of searching and finding the couch ate it as you remove and reassemble the cushions one can finally play the DVD with the 'simple commands' you talk about. And of course not everyone thinks the remote should be in your control. Small children or visitors sometimes put it in an area one typically doesn't expect it to be. OTOH it's fairly difficult to lose your hands and not notice it.

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But I'm not quite convinced this will be without issues with Kinect based on what Microsoft has shown so far.

We understand your standard approach is fear Microsoft and love Sony. Once the product is out and reviews come in we'll see how well this all works together. And of course we'll see how well the idea is received. Myself? Natural interfaces for computing is the future. We're at the infancy.

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Will it be dialect friendly, support different languages and work properly with background noise?

Or how about your own special 'word'? Training your dog to attack by saying 'lettuce' instead of 'attack' would be a good trick. The robber won't know what's about to hit them.


It sounds to me that your lot of friends is most untrustworthy if 'PS3 Shutdown' shouting while you are playing a game is your fear. Perhaps the better answer here is get some nice friends.

@BrianK

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The answer here is .. it depends.. Did you ever have your remote disappear?

Yes, I lost my remote but usually keep it at the same spot. But that didn't stop me from turning on the TV manually or changing to the correct channel or play a DVD. There are buttons and switches on devices for this.

Of course also any PS3 controller also functions as a remote, so that's not that big of a deal as I have several.

Turning on Kinect to allow voice commands or allowing sign language I think is probably more a fuss. I think if we want to invent solutions to minor problems it better be clearly superior.

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It sounds to me that your lot of friends is most untrustworthy if 'PS3 Shutdown' shouting while you are playing a game is your fear.

Everyone has little family quarrels now and then, also between children. It was just an interesting question. How you editorialize this into comments about fear or love for a company, etc I find quite odd.

@BrianK

An example you lost your remote but you want to play a DVD. But luckily you have this wonderful device called Kinect. You say: "XBox Turn on" and your XBox 360 'magically' boots up.

If you want to play a DVD, you have to walk to the console and insert the DVD. Also if you want to watch a digital movie you still need to walk to the TV and turn it on manually as well as your sound system for example.

Get my point?

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: @Lou Quote: You will finally get to experience what has made gaming on the Wii more *fun* than the HD systems. Congrats to you. For me motion control gaming was already fun in the early 90s for specific games including stereoscopic 3D and head tracking. I didn't need a Wii to understand motion controls in certain settings can add a lot to providing a more immersive experience. Same with regard to touchscreen functionality as provided on the Nintendo DS. Maybe Nintendo fanboys needed the DS to understand the possibilities, but I already played many touchscreen games in the arcades (including card ganes, arkanoid, mahjong, etc) and on PDAs (including various AmigaAnywhere games) long before I bought 2 Nintendo DSes.

All Nintendo does is take existing technology and makes if available to the masses.
Yes all this stuff has been around, but they put the $$$ behind it to get the costs down and make available to all instead of isolated geeks. But people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones as all Sony's consoles have done is show they can copy others in features.

@Lou

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Sony's consoles have done is show they can copy others in features.

@MikeB

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Yes, I lost my remote but usually keep it at the same spot. But that didn't stop me from turning on the TV manually

It seems you want that giving people another option, use sign language, is a bad thing? No one's making you use it. GUI's exist but CLI's are an option too.

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Of course also any PS3 controller also functions as a remote,

In the next post you complain Quote:

If you want to play a DVD, you have to walk to the console and insert the DVD. Also if you want to watch a digital movie you still need to walk to the TV and turn it on manually as well as your sound system for example.

In this aspect the PS3 controller results are the same. The difference here is that millions that sign the Kinect direction makes this more natural.

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Turning on Kinect to allow voice commands or allowing sign language I think is probably more a fuss.

Then simply don't. However, having more options isn't a bad thing, IMO.

Clearly the Wii has shown that users can be encouraged to do something a bit different. It feels refreshing and new compared to the older model. Sony will soon find out if emulating the cool kid means you can be cool too.

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How you editorialize

Humor my friend notice the wink?

Last edited by BrianK on 09-Aug-2010 at 12:33 PM.