@kolla

At the risk of being rude, let me inform you that you do not know anything about what is going on behind the scenes with the license. I know you cant reply with out being a jerk, so regardless of what you reply with, my answer is just go watch and like the video.

@-Sam-

Glad you liked it, I posted it for cool people that love the amiga to see whats on the horizon and what is possible with a new Amiga with the chipset that commodore wanted to make but was not able to .. Have a great day!

@jPV

I didnt say it, i just copied it from the description of the youtube video,sorry for the confusion i just wanted to get the word out fast and that was easier then typing my own description, but thats easy to see when you watch the video. This is only for vampire, its a game that needed over 1000mhz to run when it came out so they are using the new chipset they created like commodore always wanted to so you have to get a v4 to play it. sorry thats just the way it goes. hahah, but come one we all can use another amiga cannot we?????????????

@roar

But this is neither new nor Amiga, it’s old and "Apollo".

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kolla Quote:

But this is neither new nor Amiga, it’s old and "Apollo".

Apollo exclusive without a license?

Apollo Robin Hood Legend of Sherwood Beta Preview 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUe80-VV1Qo Quote:

22 Comments @slaapliedje 1 month ago Very nice! This is one of the many reasons open sourcing old games is i.portant! 1) it can become someone's passion project to learn and port a game. 2) it can bring some older games to the forefront for new people to play them. Looking forward to playing it on my Vampire! /\ 10 replies @borchen0 1 month ago Is this game opensourced? @slaapliedje 1 month ago @borchen0 Huh, I thought it was, how else is it being ported, unless it is a complete rewrite. Which is even more impressive it is this far along. @borchen0 1 month ago (edited) @slaapliedje I am also curious how they pulled this off... @WillemDrijver 1 month ago Robin Hood Legend of Sherwood is currently no more than an experimental "proof-of-concept" to verify our believes we could make such a complex game run on classic Amiga (using Apollo V4 accelerator). Now that we are in a more mature stage of the proof-of-concept, we are inquiring within Amiga/Apollo community if there is enough genuine interest to bring this project to a next level. This next level would require - obviously - solid legal arrangements as Robin Hood Legend of Sherwood is NOT open source. @slaapliedje 1 month ago @WillemDrijver Oh, I had assuned that, since it has a Linux native version, that it was one that had become open source at some point. Looking forward to it! On that note, I wonder if, once proven out that it will support more complex games, if we could maybe get some other Indie studios to develop new (or port) their games over. I am thinking like Orange Pixel, and some of the others out there. (Though I think a lot of his games use a lot of particle physics that may tank performance.) Another that would be sweet would be Tower57... though I can play that on Steam or my OS4 box, if it stays stable... Getting ahead of myself, but yes, native games for it can definitely bring more users. @jaycee1980 1 month ago @slaapliedje The Linux port was done by Runesoft, as were the Mac and MorphOS ports. Gunnar worked on the MorphOS port for Runesoft, and I guess he still has the source code. However, he has no right to legally use it in this way. @WillemDrijver 1 month ago I honestly do not know why you are challenging our legal/ethical position. As stated above: in the current stage this project is an internal "proof-of-concept" experiment to verify the possibilities of porting Games like Robin Hood Legend of Sherwood to Amiga platform. We are very open and honest about the fact that the sources are not made open source (which is a shame) and also that we currently do not have acquired licensing. Before we can consider a serious effort to acquire such a license we needed the proof-of-concept to succeed AND we need some solid positive feedback from Amiga community. Obviously you are not a positive feedback to our efforts to create something new and exciting for Amiga. I hope in the end however that you will turn around and recognise our intentions are true and that we contribute to building a future for Amiga instead of breaking it down with negativity.... @jaycee1980 1 month ago @WillemDrijver It doesnt matter what your intentions are, this is not how things work legally. You cannot simply take code you do not have a license for and produce a derivative work, even if you don't intend to distribute it. I worked for the company that developed the port, and indeed helped out with the Linux build of it. Gunnar should not even have been in posession of the code once his contract to port it to MorphOS ended. @borchen0 1 month ago Just to be clear: my question about this game being opensourced was genuine and not intended to question the legality of this experiment... @slaapliedje 1 month ago @borchen0 Same here, I actually thought it had been open sourced. Though I likely was thinking of some other game. A lot of them at some point in time become open sourced, and it allows for ports to more niche platforms, hence my original comment. In the same regard, we can play Diablo on the Amiga via the DevolutionX engine. It makes perfect sense to me to have a demo of it ported over for a proof of concept to then get a hold of the right people to develop the actual game port.

WillemDrijver mentions the "Amiga platform" and "Amiga community" so maybe the Apollo developers are planning to release an Amiga version, not just Apollo exclusive version, after they obtain a license? Perhaps an Amiga with Apollo accelerator remains an Amiga like an Amiga with P5 PPC accelerator remains an Amiga?

Last edited by matthey on 11-Jul-2024 at 10:37 PM.

@kolla

just watch the video and click on like for the new amiga game.

@matthey

come on this is a place to be happy and enjoy our new amiga software, please dont post your negative bs. thank you and please view and like the video.

@matthey

take your negativity and get the fuck out of here, then view the video and make sure to like it. thank you

@matthey

The single-source fork is a concern.

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@roar

I don’t like it.

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@kolla
.

Last edited by hUMUNGUs on 14-Jul-2024 at 04:11 PM.

@roar

There is absolutely no reason and no need to be that rude…

@michalsc

take your negativity and get the fuck away from me. Then go watch the video of the awesome new Amiga game ran on a real Amiga then click the like button. thank you

Quote:

kolla wrote: "Reviving Amiga" with 20+ years old PC games!

Ack!

The Natami/Vampire/Apollo computer might have been something that Amiga could have become after the A4000, at that time this game would have been state of the art and this is more than 20 years ago.

But time passed by, PCs now have 3Ghz Multicore CPUs, they are supporting 64 Bit. 24 Bit Grafik with 2k or 4k resolution is reality, retro games like Minecraft are supporting network and raytracing has become fast enough for gaming.

The Natami/Vampire/Apollo computer might have been a good A5000 but a A10000 is not even on the horizon.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 16-Jul-2024 at 08:11 PM.

@roar

Maybe you can demonstrate animation with Deluxe Paint 4.6 or 5 on your V4?

That's really the kind of stuff that I would give a "like" to.

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@OneTimer1

There are no high-end FPGA based consoles, FPGAs are not designed for that, so no it never be future of Amiga, it has to be ASIC, and there is no way you compete with NVIDIA, or AMD, Intel. The only possibility is use standard GPU’s, FPGA’s is Niche for prototyping hardware, works fine for cloning classic computers, that had slow obsolete technology. FPGA’s are also not cost efficient compared to software emulation.

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michalsc Quote:

There is absolutely no reason and no need to be that rude…

OneTimer1 Quote:

Ack! The Natami/Vampire/Apollo computer might have been something that Amiga could have become after the A4000, at that time this game would have been state of the art and this is more than 20 years ago. But time passed by, PCs now have 3Ghz Multicore CPUs, they are supporting 64 Bit. 24 Bit Grafik with 2k or 4k resolution is reality, retro games like Minecraft are supporting network and raytracing has become fast enough for gaming.

The most popular low end CPUs are 1-2GHz which the 64-bit AC68080 core likely would be in a less than modern ASIC. The Robin Hood game only needs a 233MHz CPU with 64MiB of memory.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140421000459/http://www.spellbound.de/?idcat=15&idart=41 Quote:

Minimale Systemvoraussetzungen Prozessor mit 233 MHz 64 MB RAM 900 MB freier Festplattenspeicher CD-Rom Laufwerk DirectX kompatible Grafik- und Soundkarte Windows 98/ME/2000 oder XP

The mostly in-order AC68080@80MHz core in the video seems to be sufficient which is pretty good considering the last 233MHz clocked desktop x86 CPUs would have been an early OoO Pentium II with 16kiB I+D L1 and off chip 512kiB L2. Maybe it has the performance efficiency (performance/MHz) of an OoO Pentium III? It's about the same performance efficiency as an OoO SAM460 CPU or in-order ARM Cortex-A7 core and is approaching the popular in-order ARM Cortex-A53 (A500 Mini and A600GS) which is not bad considering there is a significant performance loss from FPGA simulation and the small core. It would likely outperform the Cortex-A53 with an ASIC and blow away all but emulation using CPUs that have many times the price and are many times larger.

The Robin Hood demo in the link I posted uses a 848x480 16-bit screen/window which is a good compromise to save memory bandwidth. The memory is only DDR3 to keep the cost of the FPGA down but that is the same as the Amiga1 X5000. The difference is that users use more modern plug-in GPUs with more memory bandwidth for the X5000. With an ASIC, targeting more modern memory to increase the life of the ASIC makes sense. This would also allow higher resolutions and more colors. Newer memory and larger caches would make a 68k ASIC higher performance and more modern. Integrate a 3D GPU core, with raytracing, and the result should be mostly modern for the low end market. The low end market, like RPi hardware, has become more competitive with higher performance CPUs and more modern memory but the GPUs are disappointing. The RPi 4/5 SoCs transistor budgets were used on beefing OoO RISC CPU cores and now they are too hot for a better "gaming" GPU without expensive die shrinks. Naturally higher performance mostly in-order 68k CISC cores save the transistor budget for the GPU while the better code density also saves caches, memory bandwidth and reduces the cost of memory due to the smaller size needed. It may be possible to avoid paying royalties per chip like ARM requires. There are potentially many competitive advantages for a 68k ASIC SoC.

OneTimer1 Quote:

The Natami/Vampire/Apollo computer might have been a good A5000 but a A10000 is not even on the horizon.

The A5000 was advertised but never released.

https://archive.org/details/cuamiga-magazine-097/page/n5/mode/2up Quote:

o AGA Chipset o Processor details available soon o Kickstart 3.01 operating system o 2MB Chip RAM onboard o Up to 64MB of Fast RAM o 880K floppy drive (1.76MB opt.) o 1.7GB Hard Disk o lOx or 24x CD-ROM Drive o Four Zorro II sockets o Scan Doubler on-board o Two IDE sockets o MPEG Level 1 supported o Mini Tower Case

The Amiga naming convention was to have the number in the name to be the USD target price. What we need is an Amiga 120 wedge and even cheaper Amiga SBCs. Eben Upton, CEO of RPi Limited, disrupted the low end hardware market by aggressively pushing the price point of low end hardware. Is awful Amiga leadership since Amiga Corporation the perpetual Amiga curse?

NutsAboutAmiga Quote:

There are no high-end FPGA based consoles, FPGAs are not designed for that, so no it never be future of Amiga, it has to be ASIC, and there is no way you compete with NVIDIA, or AMD, Intel. The only possibility is use standard GPU’s, FPGA’s is Niche for prototyping hardware, works fine for cloning classic computers, that had slow obsolete technology. FPGA’s are also not cost efficient compared to software emulation.

You are correct about needing an ASIC to be competitive but there is no way the 68k Amiga competes in the low end market without an integrated 3D GPU. It should be possible to license an AMD or NVIDIA GPU for integration but there are many other options.

@matthey

Quote:

The mostly in-order AC68080@80MHz core in the video seems to be sufficient which is pretty good considering the last 233MHz clocked desktop x86 CPUs would have been an early OoO Pentium II with 16kiB I+D L1 and off chip 512kiB L2. Maybe it has the performance efficiency (performance/MHz) of an OoO Pentium III? It's about the same performance efficiency as an OoO SAM460 CPU or in-order ARM Cortex-A7 core and is approaching the popular in-order ARM Cortex-A53 (A500 Mini and A600GS) which is not bad considering there is a significant performance loss from FPGA simulation and the small core. It would likely outperform the Cortex-A53 with an ASIC and blow away all but emulation using CPUs that have many times the price and are many times larger.

Pentium MMX reached 233 Mhz on June 2, 1997.

Pentium II "Klamath" 233, 266, and 300 were released in May 1997 which are premium SKUs (replacing Pentium Pro) when Pentium MMX acted as the "Celeron" product segment.

Celeron "Covington" 266 and 300 models were released in April 1998.

Intel Pentium II Xeon "Drake" started with 400Mhz clock speed and it was released in June 1998.

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