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      /  In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 8:25:15
# ]

0
0

@CodeSmith

I would say this has been coming a while, boiling frustration amongst some of the moderators.

 
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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 8:28:51
# ]

0
0

@Wiffy

Quote:
I must go and look out that url for the #morphos live logs again...


Don't bother. It was my log. It's right here

Why don't you just chill a bit.

 
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falemagn 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 8:33:03
#63 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Bah... never mind...

Last edited by falemagn on 06-Apr-2005 at 08:41 AM.
Last edited by falemagn on 06-Apr-2005 at 08:40 AM.

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itix 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 8:57:16
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@MikeB

Let me try again. Hermans @ ANN

"It's a well known fact that the MorphOS people are using the OS 3.1 source-code." (4 Nov 2001)

This ANN.lu thread was referring to another ANN.lu thread which was referring to AmigaOne mailing list:

Quote:

It is a separate product whose derivation legality is an issue, (...).


Fleecy's posting is from 2 Nov 2001. Hermans posting is from 4 Nov 2001. The formal legal threat was posted in mid 2002?

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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 9:14:46
# ]

0
0

@hooligan

Stop projection your emotions onto others

 
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MikeB 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 9:31:12
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2003
Posts: 6487
From: Europe

@itix

OK, but Ben doesn't speak for Amiga Inc, he was sharing his (maybe well informed) opinion / knowledge, just like Dave Haynie and others did.

Fleecy only stated that the product has derivation legality issue without going into detail and the leaked private letter suggests that his concerns were genuine.

The warning letter goes into some detail, "Like everyone else, you get a license for SO to ship as a certified product on your machine.", "You can't ship MorphOS because our lawyers will stop you.", "Don't make the mistake of thinking we are out of money or don't have the balls to protect ourselves." or "Unless the next mail I get from you is a serious consideration of an OS4 licence, then I am not even going to respond because we are just going round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round............. "

IMO based on personal experience this letter caused much more turmoil and was widely covered on various news & forum portals than the hint by Fleecy on 'issues' to a selective audiance (AmigaOne mailing-list).

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Rogue 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 9:38:08
#67 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:
Unproven "MorphOS is based on illegal source code" from Hermans, anyone?


There is a difference in that. This is not about calling for piracy, or leaking private data. And whether that is unproven or not (seeing testimonies like Dave Haynie's) would be a court's descision.

Quote:
Cant say I'm particularly happy with Genesi either. But at least the development teams are doing their best.


Did I say *anything* about MorphOS or the MorphOS team? I don't think that this was the topic here.

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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 9:54:44
# ]

0
0

Look EVERYONE!

I dunno about you, but if I want to visit a website that has personal vendettas, old chips on shoulders, rumours and opinions and all of the other stuff that's being brought up by all sides, I'd most likely be looking at a celebrity gossip website.

Since this isn't "E-Online", can we just leave the gutter where the gutter belongs?

It doesn't matter who is right. Why? Because everyone has said the same ruddy thing for the last decade and it's getting REALLY REALLY boring now. We have all long since stopped caring about this continual drudge through your personal lives.

Maybe because of the influx of "reality" TV shows, it is considered normal to conduct yourselves as you would in your own homes? There is somthing called "standards of behavior" thats acceptible in public.

Tip: This is not one of them.

---

So, go back to your corners. There is no point continuing as there will be no resolution, just wound up people. Act you own age, not the one of the person opposite.

 
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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 9:55:26
# ]

0
0

@Thread

HELP!

I've fallen through a time warp to the arse end of 2001 and I can't get up!

 
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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 10:04:25
# ]

0
0

@Uncharted

I feel like that every time they play music in a french supermarket.

 
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itix 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 10:23:15
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Rogue

Quote:

This is not about calling for piracy, or leaking private data.


MorphOS users find BBRV annoying, too.

Quote:

And whether that is unproven or not (seeing testimonies like Dave Haynie's) would be a court's descision.


Dave Haynie was not referring to MorphOS source code but to an Exec replacement for 68k AmigaOS.

Quote:

Quote:

Cant say I'm particularly happy with Genesi either. But at least the development teams are doing their best.

Did I say *anything* about MorphOS or the MorphOS team? I don't think that this was the topic here.


I was referring to both MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 teams... (I admit my last line was not clear in this)

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itix 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 10:26:13
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@MikeB

Could you please provide link to this leaked letter you are referring to?

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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 13:14:35
# ]

0
0

@Uncharted

ROTFL.

Spot on.

Guys, why keep going on like this? It won't solve anything. The only thing that can heal this community is having hatches burried.
This will make moderators and users less paranoid and less likely to moderate. Out of sight, out of mind. This is just pouring salt into an open wound.

 
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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 14:08:40
# ]

0
0

@Rogue & EntilZha

Again, about the online conduct of various (rather *all* of them) corporate leaders:

1. They were all pretty bad online. They all took things way too personal from time to time and got involved with innuendos of vendettas. This sure goes for BBRV, but you fail to see that it also applied to all leaders of Amiga Inc, Hyperion and Eyetech, heck even for certain big name website administrators and OS coders. Everything you can say about BBRV could IMHO be mirrored back to the other side of the fence as well. Perhaps you can't match action by action, but very much so the “shlt”-level they brought to the forums, and the annoyance they created.

2. Most of this was a long time ago by now. They have all become better since then.

3. Constantly focusing on negative things are not good. It won't help improving the situation for *anyone*, not for you, not for anyone else. *Everyone*, which means you, me, MorphOS, OS4, Pegasos, all the developers, all the users, etc, etc -this entire community- would be much better off if this constant remembering and publically repeating of *the old ####* (from everyone, about everyone) simply stopped. All the wounds will never heal if you continue this way. Try to focus on positive things instead, try to focus on the future instead of the past.

A man much wiser than me once said: It does not matter where are or have been; the only important thing is the way in which you are heading!

Think about that! It goes for all of us, of course!

Quote:
I DO NOT REPRESENT HYPERION. I AM NOT EVEN EMPLOYED BY HYPERION. I AM A CONTRACTOR, AND AS SUCH CANNOT REPRESENT HYPERION BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER CONNECTION TO THEM.


OK, that is news to me actually. Sorry for the misunderstanding then, but I do not think I am the only one who didn't know this. I actually believe the majority of people on this site sees you as *the* representatives for Hyperion. It's in most people's perception. However, I don't think that is very strange, when your signature contains "Hans-Jörg Frieden, Hyperion Entertainment", and "All opinions expressed in this message are mine, and do not necessarily (Edit: but could?) represent that of Hyperion Entertainment", and you constantly seem to be speaking *on behalf* of Hyperion.

But again, I am sorry for making that mistake. I guess you learn something new every day.

(Regarding this (for me) new situation: May I ask you if Hyperion has *any* representative present on this site, a real employee? Both you two brothers, as well as Ben Hermans, *are not* as far as I understand?)

Let’s move on. Regarding me "badmouthing" you on sites where you don't go (how I am supposed to know which sites you go to anyway, is for me an enigma, but that isn’t important):

1. I never really intended to badmouth you anywhere, not here, nor elsewhere. I tried to make a well-thought-through reply to your posts about BBRV *on this site* (you have seen it at the beginning of this thread).

2. It simply wasn't possible to post it here. I politely pointed out in a private PM to the moderator that I felt your posts in that thread was against the posting rules of this site, but that I don’t really care about that (because I really don’t), as long as either someone would be allowed to at least reply (which one wasn’t) or the inflammatory posts would be removed altogether (which they weren’t), and I got some barf style reply saying something that I would not have the nerve to question moderation, and that he especially had pointed out that I wasn’t trolling. OK, fine. I settled with that, tried to forget it, and moved on.

3. Some days later when I surf to moobunny.org, I see a thread about yet *another* AW moderation incident (a much more serious incident than the one that happened to me, which I already was beginning to forget at that point). I start reading the thread. Mike Bouma is in full action proclaiming how good and open the AW site is, as he always does, and “AdmV” states his view that this is simply not true, and that pretty much the same goes for morphzone. I step in and try to point out the differences between the two sites, and the most recent example I could use (and the *only* one *from my own* experience) was the one mentioned above. That involved your posts in a remote way, but it was certainly not my main point (which was to point out the difference between the sites).

So in summary: I *did not* run off to moobunny to start a thread to discredit you behind your back (I *tried* to post my words at this site (which was in no way discrediting, and my intention was for you to be able to answer in the same context), to your face, but it simply wasn’t possible), but when I was there for another reason simply pointed out my experience of moderation on AW contra moderation on morphzone.

If that made you feel offended, then I am truly sorry, and I apologize. It was never my intention (as you see in my post on top of this thread).

 
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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 14:31:17
# ]

0
0

@ cecilia

You are greatly mistaken, I am a very “online” person and following this community is a big hobby of mine. I have not missed a single thing. I know exactly all bad things BBRV (and also every other corporate representatives in this community) has both caused themselves and also what bad things has fallen upon them.

I also know that there are no other entrepreneur like them in this entire community, no one that has contributed with as many *positive* things as well. As I have written in numerous posts, my view is that this community has lots of developers, but what is really missing (a fact that will make the new platform *not* taking off) is entrepreneurs to make things happen, to actually build the platform. The A1 and OS4 has been very unfortunate to not have the support of such stubborn, hard working, hard-skinned entrepreneurs as BBRV really are, and the Pegasos and MorphOS has been very fortunate.

You have many times spoken about this community, that the community is the only thing important, and as long as we have ourselves, then everything will be fine. Screw the companies, you said. I don’t agree with you. Without hopes of a future, there *won’t be* a community. There won’t be a future without an entrepreneur to *create* the future. Naturally, to make it possible, we would all have to contribute the ways we can. But someone would have to take the lead and create the structures, lay down the road, etc.

The difference between you and me Cecilia, is that you focus on negative things and forgets the positive things, while I focus on positive things and try hard to forget the negative things. I think this is the only way to move forward from where we are now. I think it’s totally necessary.

My support for BBRV is not because I have been fooled, am naive or blind to less pretty things or anything such. I am neither blind, nor stupid. I have seen everything you others have seen, both negative and positive. My support for Genesi comes both from a genuine interest in business (which perhaps gives me a slightly different perspective than some of you others), an understanding of the troubles and difficulties in entrepreneurship (which *also* gives me a different perspective than some of you others), but mostly because of my love for this community, my love for this platform, and my belief that everything would be pointless without good entrepreneurs. I know there are always bumps in an entrepreneurs road, and loads of setbacks and problems. *I* can’t do anything about that, so why would I bother raving around about these things? A good entrepreneur manage to push through despite this. BBRV are *great* entrepreneurs, the only ones we have! I focus on that!


Quote:
Well, I NEVER forget. and I NEVER forgive. I'll be right here, reminding everyone of their stench.

Indeed.

Is this positive or negative to this community, you think? Again, this seems to be a major difference between us two. You focus on negative things and problems in the past, and I try to forget any sad history and focus on the *positive* things and possibilities for the future. IMHO, your attitude is exactly what is *not* needed. Aggression comes back to you, in an endless innuendo. If I kick at you, then you kick back, then I kick back, then you kick back, etc, etc. We are now at a situation when no-one even remembers who gave the first kick anymore. Probably one party gave the first kick, while the other gave the first punch instead at the same time. But that is so totally unimportant at this point in time ...

I think it’s time to stop keeping each others wounds open and bleeding, let them heal instead, and move on (the very opposite to what you advocate). It’s the only way. The road we are currently on, is leading to hell, and I can't understand why so many of you who simply can’t wait to get there.

I really think it's tim to switch tracks now.

 
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Rogue 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 14:36:07
#76 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:
MorphOS users find BBRV annoying, too.


This is exactly what I said, and for which I got flamed like hell (including moobunnied) by takemehomegrandma. But apparently, if you say so, this isn't going to raise an eyebrow. If I say so it is trolling.

Oh well.

Quote:
Dave Haynie was not referring to MorphOS source code but to an Exec replacement for 68k AmigaOS.


I thought it was in reference to a 68k exec replacement by Phase 5 or someone working for phase 5 that still had some original comments in it?

Quote:
I was referring to both MorphOS and AmigaOS 4 teams... (I admit my last line was not clear in this)


No it wasn't. Really. But just look at Moobunny, apparently I have been saying bad things about MorphOS as well (although I can't really remember) and about the development teams. At least this is what a MorphOS supporter claims, so it must be true for the MB crowd.

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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 14:51:41
# ]

0
0

@ L8-X

Thank you for your well thought through reply.

Indeed it was a very odd situation, with unfortunate timing in hitting the “submit” button, or whatever it was. And unlike what Theodosius action of creating this “extra thread” may have made things look like, I did not really consider this moderation thing to be a *huge* thing. Sure, in some way it felt like a kick on the balls (I am not used to being moderated, I sure didn't like it, and I guess you could say that I deep inside probably am against that whole concept), but I have gotten kicks on the balls before and I am still alive.

I made my point clear to Theodosius in a PM, I got a reply, and I left it there since I could not get anywhere further at this place anyway. The rest you can read above, in my reply to the Friedens; I simply used this incident as an example in a different discussion when comparing two sites, something *I have the full right to do* (without getting a public spanking for it, even if I really don’t mind that either Bring on some more! ).

Moderating things away doesn’t *really* make things go away, it only looks that way to the moderator. Removing peoples expressed opinions will not really remove the *opinions*, only the words expressing them, and only from the site the moderator is controlling. The opinions will still be there until *changed*, and I (or anyone else on this site) are of course totally free to go posting our opinions elsewhere, including opinions about the site itself and our experience of its moderation.

 
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GregS 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 14:53:18
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: Perth Australia

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
OK, that is news to me actually. Sorry for the misunderstanding then, but I do not think I am the only one who didn't know this. I actually believe the majority of people on this site sees you as *the* representatives for Hyperion. It's in most people's perception. However, I don't think that is very strange, when your signature contains "Hans-Jörg Frieden, Hyperion Entertainment", and "All opinions expressed in this message are mine, and do not necessarily (Edit: but could?) represent that of Hyperion Entertainment", and you constantly seem to be speaking *on behalf* of Hyperion


I am not moderating, but this does come up a few times and yes you are not the only one who has overlooked it.

Hans-Jorg and Thomas do not constantly speak on behalf of Hyperion. When they say something about OS4 developments they do so off their own bat and I for one am very grateful for their input.

Their veiws have always been their views, offcial statements are issued through Hyperion not through them.

Obviously in commenting on the current state of play in development, myriads of technical details and in answering questions they still talk off their own bat, but do so with recognisied authority of people who know what is going on (unlike myself for instance). Hence they are from Hyperion enterntainment in this regard, but not Hyperion entertainment as official spokepeople -- it is not an unusual arrangement, In australia at least it is expected that people voice their own opinions unless they state they are speaking on behalf of someone else.

I understand both of them get quite tired of restating more or less what I have said and I am placing it here so they do not have to restate it.

Now to add my bit:
Obviously there is a level of ambiguity. but I am afriad that is just something you have to live with.

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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 14:58:18
# ]

0
0

@ DruidPoet

Quote:
It's a shame you were unable to see my "wise words" also apply to you.


As you see in my reply to Theodosius, I tried to tell him that trying to "unmoderate" things by creating a thread like this one would be a stupid idea, and you will also see why I think so!

But now I am actually getting more and more glad he did!


Quote:
This thread had turned into Yet Another Flame (YAF) thanks in no small part to you.

Funny, I was just going to say that I am quite impressed that we haven’t seen any flame fests here yet, despite the promised non-moderation!

Besides, *my* only part in creating this thread (you call it a flame fest, I call it a quite mature discussion) was ... NONE! I once posted a reply to some posts I didn’t agree with. The moderator removed it, I didn’t like that, I PM’ed him about it, I got a reply, and I realized that I would not be able to continue that discussion on this site anyway. The thread was locked and the moderator had made up his mind. However, he can’t force me to be happy with it, and he can’t prevent me from discussing my experiences elsewhere. Some days later I mentioned the incident (which is my full right) in another thread, on another site, in another context, which made him go ballistic. That is *the only* reason to why you see this thread!


Quote:
If it was your intention to make yourself look like an idiot, you have succeded fantasticly well.

Look pal, you can call me whatever you want, but I would sure like an explanation to that. Please elaborate!


Quote:
I dunno about you, but if I want to visit a website that has personal vendettas, old chips on shoulders, rumours and opinions and all of the other stuff that's being brought up by all sides, I'd most likely be looking at a celebrity gossip website.

Since this isn't "E-Online", can we just leave the gutter where the gutter belongs?

It doesn't matter who is right. Why? Because everyone has said the same ruddy thing for the last decade and it's getting REALLY REALLY boring now. We have all long since stopped caring about this continual drudge through your personal lives.

Wow, now I immediately start to like you again! THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT! It was exactly this my original reply to the Friedens (that evil post that was moderated away) was about! You can read it in Theodosius post at the top of this thread. It’s not the exact wordings as your post, but almost! The content is exactly the same at least!

Forget all the #### people, quit repeating your mantras, focus on the positive things, so we can move on already!

 
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Anonymous 
Re: In continuance of the AROS wanted by BBRV thread...
Posted on 6-Apr-2005 15:18:13
# ]

0
0

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

Look pal, you can call me whatever you want,


OK, you are a flaming idiot!

Im just really tired of all this "he said, she said" that gets recyled time and time again. I singled you out as you were the one that quoted my comments.

I'm trying not to take sides as I think the "truth" has long since been forgotton by both sides. Heck, why does there need to be sides anyway?

I'm fairly neutral on this as I was away while the worst of the troll wars was going on.
Here is my take on the situation;


Buck stuck the claws into the fractured community and dragged both sides down. Why? Because he is the worst sort of buisness man. Rather than build up to succes, he drags his competition down to his level. If you want proof, pay attention to the failed companies he's had his hands in.

Now that he's shafted the MorphOS community, it's time the "blues" stopped trying to defend him and just accept that he is bad. Realise that much of what the "reds" have been saying is the more truthful side and come back on board with the rest of us (The community as a whole - rather than a "hole").

Everytime one side slags the other off (Be it website moderation, legal settlement, etc), all you are doing is continuing what Buck started. So lets all just shut up.

Starting with me.

 
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