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      /  Good times around the corner.
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tonyw 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 13:45:30
#121 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3240
From: Sydney (of course)

@BigD

OS4 is dead, eh? Then why the hell are we all working harder than ever?

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tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

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jorkany 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 15:16:50
#122 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-May-2005
Posts: 920
From: Space Coast

@tonyw
Quote:
OS4 is dead, eh? Then why the hell are we all working harder than ever?


Good times are coming just around the corner this Summer!

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 15:26:15
#123 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12835
From: Norway

@BigD

So how is your coldfire project going should you not be working on that? Instead of complaining about what Hyperion does.

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NomadOfNorad 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 19:01:18
#124 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2003
Posts: 746
From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA, Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

@jorkany

Quote:

jorkany wrote:
@tonyw
Quote:
OS4 is dead, eh? Then why the hell are we all working harder than ever?


Good times are coming just around the corner this Summer!


This coming Summer?!???

[Ducking]

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Manu 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 19:47:08
#125 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@NomadOfNorad

Well if it's not the coming summer then it
sure is the summer after that and if it's not
the summer after the coming summer then it
most likely will be the summer after the summer
that is after this coming summer. And if ....

(Me hides too...)


Only Amiga makes it possible.

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hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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adiaux 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 21:53:40
#126 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@BigD

Quote:
Seems OS4.0 is dead, doubt even Hyperion would risk a release, even if they win the court case!


Well, *despite* they don't own the brand and Amiga Inc has explicitly told them they are not allowed to do this and terminated the contract and started the lawsuit for this very reason, they *still* refers to the OS as *Amiga*(TM) OS4. OK, maybe it could be considered a extenuating circumstance that they don't actually *sell* it like this (which would have been crystal clear parasite marketing) since they don't have a product to sell, but I think it's kind of "brave" anyway, so maybe you shouldn't underestimate Hyperion's "bravery"?

Besides, I was browsing this thread on moobunny, and suddenly discovered that the Friedens said on "amigans.net" they they just have "invented" *MorphOS*, but unfortunately Hyperion's version of it won't be as Amiga compatible as the *original* MorphOS. Makes me wonder why people doesn't use "teh reel thing!!11!1" instead? (Oh, the implications of all this is is so hilarious and bizarre that it's totally mind-boggling! Popcorn! More Popcorn! )

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Tomppeli 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 22:19:00
#127 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jun-2004
Posts: 1652
From: Home land of Santa, sauna, sisu and salmiakki

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
suddenly discovered that the Friedens said on "amigans.net" they they just have "invented" *MorphOS*

What kind of S**T are you talking here ???

_________________
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adiaux 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 22:34:46
#128 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@Tomppeli

Quote:

Tomppeli wrote:
@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
suddenly discovered that the Friedens said on "amigans.net" they they just have "invented" *MorphOS*

What kind of S**T are you talking here ???


I'm bantering a bit of course, but if you take a look at the MorphOS design philosophy, and put that in context with what Rogue said in that post about the upcoming evolution of his OS, I'm sure you'll understand what I mean...

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ChrisH 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 22:35:31
#129 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@jorkany
Yeah, just remember the first post in this thread, where Troika posted this on on 20-Mar-2006 Quote:
Enough with everything down in the dumps! Its spring be happy.

Good things will come to he who waits

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ChrisH 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 22:48:50
#130 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@Tomppeli
Just did a quick search, and I think he is talking about this post:
Rogue wrote Quote:
Quote:
jahc wrote:

If this plan goes ahead, does that mean current OS4 apps will run under a sandbox with the older kernel, and that the newer OS4.x apps will have enhanced features, and maybe a better form of memory protection?

I wouldn't call it a sandbox, rather a virtual environment. The old system will run in its own address space as a separate task. It's not like a UAE or anything like that. It might or might not be able to become aware of the outside world, we still need to clear up the details.


To which I have to say I am *stunned*. Never mind that this is very close to how MOS was designed, he's basically saying that OS4 (as it exists now) is a dead-end design, that will be relegated to a sand-box. It means they've given-up on the core OS4 idea of extending AmigaOS in a compatible way, and future changes will be highly incompatible. They might as well call it OS5...

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billt 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:09:32
#131 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
Makes me wonder why people doesn't use "teh reel thing!!11!1" instead?


Ironically, I don't believe I CAN buy something to use "teh reel thing" on. Today. Me. I don't care about later this year, and I don't care about unreleased developer demos. I am not personally able to run MorphOS today, and I cannot do anything to change that today. Strange...

Even so, I did attempt to order an Efika last week, believe it or not. Seems pegasosppc.com rquired me to create an account to order, but is not sending me my account verification email. So I am not able to buy an Efika to only run Linux on either. I let the powers that be know of the situation, hopefully it will be resolved soon.

I just find it strangely ironic that what is spouted to be the "only" possible savior for OS4's hardware problem is in this situation, as is it ironic that MOS is not currently availabel on any currently shipping hardware same as is OS4's situation.

Dude. I Tried. I found two large hurdles in my way, neither of which I can possibly surpass on my own. As "teh reel thing" is out of my reach, I assume it is also out of the reach of others here, and I don't understand why you're criticizing us for not doing something which is at the moment entirely impossible for us to do.

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adiaux 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:37:00
#132 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote:
@Tomppeli
Just did a quick search, and I think he is talking about this post:

Quote:
I wouldn't call it a sandbox, rather a virtual environment. The old system will run in its own address space as a separate task. It's not like a UAE or anything like that. It might or might not be able to become aware of the outside world, we still need to clear up the details.


To which I have to say I am *stunned*. Never mind that this is very close to how MOS was designed


It is the very core idea of MorphOS. Call it "A-box in a Quark-kernel environment" or whatever. It is one of the main design ideas of MorphOS that so many people (lead by Hyperion and certain cheerleaders) has mocked so heavily for so long, to so many other peoples amazement, since it's a *beautiful* design since it's a clever way (the *only* way) of obtaining the impossible - a clean and compatible Amiga environment combined with modern, incompatible extensions. Some people laughed and mocked, others knew the beauty and knew it was the only way. Oh, the irony!

Here's a comment from XraalE taken from that moobunny thread (I think it pictures the history quite well, both regarding this issue, and others):

"It's part of the Hyperion/Frieden ten year plan, which goes something like this:

1) Angrily discredit feature(s) found in MorphOS, invent lots of reasons why they/it are crap, primitive, and un-Amigalike.
2) Porpose a much, much better way, explaining in ways that make experts laugh out loud, and angrily debunk and ignore any advice not to even attempt it no matter how experienced the source and how delicately it is put.
3) Hype this better way like crazy. Get angry at any attempt to limit the hype with technical discussions or OS comparisons.
4) Spend years attempting to do the better way. Get angry at anyone who asks what's happening.
5) Fail miserably. Angrily.
6) Angrily deny that there was a failure, blaming the users for expecting far too much, despite having told them in no uncertain terms in step 3.
7) Copy the MorphOS way, while changing terminology like "sandbox" to "super virtualization", and "customer support" to "stop bitching".
8) Angrily deny that the MOS guys did it first, that years were wasted, and that their way is actually still better."


Quote:
he's basically saying that OS4 (as it exists now) is a dead-end design, that will be relegated to a sand-box. It means they've given-up on the core OS4 idea of extending AmigaOS in a compatible way, and future changes will be highly incompatible.


It always has been that way, and if you thought otherwise, then you have let yourself be fooled all along! There is no way to implement memory protection, SMP and other things in an Amiga environment. It can't be done! The MorphOS way is the only way to (partly) achieve this kind of functionality in a clean way. It's as good as things can get. It's the MorphOS way, the way which some people here has been chastising MorphOS for, so many times, for so many years. The same people are now at amigans.net *cheering* for the same thing.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Quote:
They might as well call it OS5...


I don't think they will have to bother with names at all; everything is going in the fast lane to Amithlon-land.

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adiaux 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 14-Aug-2007 23:56:08
#133 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@billt

Quote:
Ironically, I don't believe I CAN buy something to use "teh reel thing" on. Today. Me.


Very true indeed, MorphOS 2.0 hasn't been released yet, but that's not news to you, right? You can of course buy a second hand Pegasos and use MorphOS 1.4.x if you want. MorphOS 2.0 will come for both Pegasos 1 and Pegasos 2, and while the Pegasos will cost more money it's also more powerful than the Efika is, so maybe you can take that under consideration?

Quote:
I don't care about later this year, and I don't care about unreleased developer demos. I am not personally able to run MorphOS today, and I cannot do anything to change that today. Strange...


Strange?

Quote:
Even so, I did attempt to order an Efika last week, believe it or not. Seems pegasosppc.com rquired me to create an account to order, but is not sending me my account verification email. So I am not able to buy an Efika to only run Linux on either. I let the powers that be know of the situation, hopefully it will be resolved soon.


I don't understand? There was a glitch in the shopping cart system? Or what? I'm sorry, but I don't really understand your point? Have you mailed anyone and told them about your problems and now you are waiting for the problems to be fixed, is that what you try to say?

Quote:
I just find it strangely ironic that what is spouted to be the "only" possible savior for OS4's hardware problem is in this situation, as is it ironic that MOS is not currently availabel on any currently shipping hardware same as is OS4's situation.


If I searched around a bit, I'm pretty sure I could find at least a handful or two of dealers where you can get an Efika if you don't want to use the pegasosppc.com store (including freescale.com and directron.com). BTW, OS4?

Quote:
Dude. I Tried. I found two large hurdles in my way, neither of which I can possibly surpass on my own. As "teh reel thing" is out of my reach, I assume it is also out of the reach of others here, and I don't understand why you're criticizing us for not doing something which is at the moment entirely impossible for us to do.


I don't know what you are on about here actually, with all this text. You don't understand that MorphOS 2.0 is not released yet, is that it?

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billt 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 15-Aug-2007 0:52:34
#134 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3205
From: Maryland, USA

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:
You don't understand that MorphOS 2.0 is not released yet, is that it?


That's one of those two hurdles I mentioned, yes. So please don't criticize me or others for not using MOS if I cannot possibly do so. I'm trying. I'm finding it a difficult thing to do right now. I can't buy a peg, so all I can do is wait and wonder why we're being trash talked for not doing the currently impossible. I cannot possibly use MOS, so please don't trash talk me for not doing so until it is possible.

Other vendors that I've found do not seem to offer the $99 pricing. Long ago after seeing you and one or two others talk about how great Efika is at $99 when it was selling for thrice that, I said I'd buy one if and when this mythical $99 price became reality. I'm trying to do that now, and Vesalia's 189euro price for example fails that quite thoroughly. Directron is double. Freescale is double or higher. Google on the first two results pages isn't giving me a another option to shop at, so I'll wait the week or so for them to reopen the Efika purchasing at pegasosppc...

I'd prefer a Peg8641, but I understand that project has been shelved. The Peg2 isn't for sale anymore and I'd rather not buy or have to look for a used one. There is a G3 one on Ebay, but no G4s. Easier to wait for Efika store to be sorted out and pay no more than this promised price to which I'm agreeable.

Last edited by billt on 15-Aug-2007 at 12:58 AM.

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samface 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 15-Aug-2007 2:21:40
#135 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1161
From: Norrköping, Sweden

@takemehomegrandma

1. The OS sandbox design is NOT "the MorphOS way". It's a design used by many long before the MorphOS guys. You could just as well blame both Hyperion and the MorphOS team for "stealing" this idea from MacOSX, for example. When you say that it is "the MorphOS way", one might interpret that as if it would be something unique for MorphOS, which really can't be further from the truth.

2. Please have a look at this announced development plan for AmigaOS version 4.0 up to 5.0 from 2001:

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amigaosdev1.html

In their plans for AmigaOS5 it says, and I quote; "AmigaOS4 sandbox - Similar to the MacOS X approach to previous MacOS software".

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jorkany 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 15-Aug-2007 2:29:03
#136 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-May-2005
Posts: 920
From: Space Coast

@samface
Quote:

2. Please have a look at this announced development plan for AmigaOS version 4.0 up to 5.0 from 2001:

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/amigaosdev1.html

In their plans for AmigaOS5 it says, and I quote; "AmigaOS4 sandbox - Similar to the MacOS X approach to previous MacOS software".

Err, it also says that OS5 was supposed to be out in 2002. I wouldn't say that's the most reliable source of information! Just look at what they fantasized about for OS4 in that timeline.

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samface 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 15-Aug-2007 3:15:06
#137 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1161
From: Norrköping, Sweden

@jorkany

The consistency in what they said back then about the idea of a sandbox for backwards compatibility and what they are saying today is still there, isn't it? That's what Takemehomegrandma is claiming to not be true. How realistic those plans and dates were or not is besides the point.

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umisef 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 15-Aug-2007 4:33:16
#138 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1714
From: Melbourne, Australia

@samface

Quote:
The consistency in what they said back then about the idea of a sandbox for backwards compatibility and what they are saying today is still there, isn't it?


No, it isn't.

There isn't a "they" that fits that sentence. The "they" back then was Fleecy's Phantasmorgastism[tm], whereas the "they" now is Rogue, i.e. H-J Frieden. You *do* realise that this was a different OS4 back then, done by different people, right?

Also, you are welcome to ask Rogue whether his plans include Orthogonal Persistence as well as AmigaDE integration. The reply should be amusing in any case :)

Last edited by umisef on 15-Aug-2007 at 04:34 AM.

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Dandy 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 15-Aug-2007 5:45:20
#139 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@samface

Quote:

samface wrote:
@takemehomegrandma

...
You could just as well blame both Hyperion and the MorphOS team for "stealing" this idea from MacOSX, for example.
...



Are you saying that MacOS X already existed when MOS development started some 10 years+ ago?

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Dandy 
Re: Good times around the corner.
Posted on 15-Aug-2007 5:53:30
#140 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@samface

Quote:

samface wrote:
@takemehomegrandma

...
In their plans for AmigaOS5 it says, and I quote; "AmigaOS4 sandbox - Similar to the MacOS X approach to previous MacOS software".



In their plans for AmigaOS5 it says, and I quote; "AmigaOS 5.0 (Winter 2002)".

I'm amused you believe anything regarding OS5 could be true, given that it should have been out 5 years ago.

I take it that OS 5 is as real as it's release date "Winter 2002"...

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