@CodeSmith
Quote:

The last bit of information ACK employees leaked on IRC ("the boards are in production" in the Hyperion interview) proved to be just noise, so why should this be any different?

There was no information "leaked" because Adam outright told you. That was a deliberate choice to share information and not remotely even close to a leak. When he told you the boards were in production that was true. Alas, it is a long haul from building a few boards in a board shop to shipping finished product. Adam was nice enough to share a bit of information the other night and nothing more. Put the pitchforks down.

Guys, he is doing his best with the resources he has available. Plans change and sh!t happens.

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ExecSG Team Lead

Man, that's some great news in there!! I got an A4000 with a WarpEngine that would defenitly like this. And I'll probably be tempted to buy the A1200 version too

Last edited by Jose on 03-Apr-2006 at 09:35 PM.

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José

@ssolie

The usual rule in these things is that unless it's posted on the website, it's not official. Anything that's not official is by definition an unofficial leak, even if it's the guy in charge of the project that leaks it.

Obviously Adam did not feel comfortable enough with the information to put it on the website, but it was good enough to share, off the record, with others on IRC. Fine, I thank him for keeping us informed of what's going on, but I'm not going to construe his comments as "good news", which is what I was originally responding to. It's nothing more than a tentative progress report, which (as we've already seen, btw "in production" does not mean "I have a few prototypes") is not any indication that the boards are any closer to being sold - just that Adam is still working on the project. I guess the good news, if any, is "the project hasn't been cancelled yet".

Last edited by CodeSmith on 03-Apr-2006 at 09:38 PM.

@CodeSmith

Quote:

Obviously Adam did not feel comfortable enough with the information to put it on the website, but it was good enough to share, off the record, with others on IRC.

Yep, that's basically it. I asked if it was OK to summarize on AW, as I expected if I didn't, one of the other AW members in the channel were likely to anyways. I know it's not 'great' news by any definition of the word, but it is news, of a sort, that I thought worth sharing.

I certainly agree RE: definition of 'in production.' It seems the Amiga market makes their own definitions on the fly? Actually, it certainly seems like all 'Amiga companies,' single person or err, even a...troika, could use some help in the communication department. Still hoping someone produces something in the event my A1 ever dies, as well as for 'everyone else,' but who knows when, or even from whom, the next piece is coming from? Hopefully, from the 'delayed projects,' (IOW, ACK as well as Troika), but it's certainly close to 'who cares? Just hardware, any hardware...' for many/most of us.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@A3000T
Quote:

An other problem is that A1200 users tend to have less money available for their hobby then A3/4000 users. A lot of A1200 users can't afford a high end CPU upgrade.

Eh? That might have been true back in 1992, but nowadays I tend to disagree.
The most expensive part with Amiga Classic are the upgrades anyway.

Most users with A1200 who are still using them and who are interested in the Powervixxen have already upgraded their Miggys to the max, and that already _was_ expensive. There are no "poor A1200 users who can't afford a A4000" like in 1992 anymore.
The base machine (A3k,A4k,A1200) doesn't really matter, it's the upgrades (Mediator, PPC-Card, Flickerfixer, etc.) that matter.

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This signature is in the middle of a much needed facelift!

@A3000T

Quote:

High end CPU boards tend to need more power and bigger heatsinks. This may be a problem for the A1200.

I can only see two problems - first, the A1200 expansion port is very slow, and quicky becomes a bottleneck if the CPU wants to access the original hardware. But I think anyone who wants to use the machine seriously has already invested to tower cases, some sort of busboard with graphics card, sound card etc. These cards can then be accessed directly, which removes the bottleneck from serious use and also allows better cooling of the CPU.

Another thing is routing the power. I have a BPPC, and in my experience powering a high end accelerator through A1200 motherboard is no good and can make the whole system unstable. But again PCI boards like Mediator SX which can be used to power the accelerator directly from the PSU removes this problem.

Quote:

An other problem is that A1200 users tend to have less money available for their hobby then A3/4000 users. A lot of A1200 users can't afford a high end CPU upgrade.

That might have been true in early 1990's but I bet most of the A1200 machines that are actively used today have been heavily expanded and with high cost, and the wallets of the A1200 owners might actually be much deeper than the A3/4000 owners

_________________
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." (Groucho Marx)

@GrumpyOldMan

Quote:

GrumpyOldMan wrote: @A3000T I think anyone who wants to use the machine seriously has already invested to tower cases, some sort of busboard with graphics card, sound card etc. These cards can then be accessed directly, which removes the bottleneck from serious use and also allows better cooling of the CPU.

I don't have a tower on my A1200 for one thing, and for another thing the PowerVixxen LT is supposed to come with a graphics card on board.

@GrumpyOldMan

> That might have been true in early 1990's but I bet most of the A1200
> machines that are actively used today have been heavily expanded and with
> high cost, and the wallets of the A1200 owners might actually be much deeper
> than the A3/4000 owners

I think only a few A1200s are heavily expanded, and most A4000 user I have met were a lot more willing to buy expansion hardware then the A1200 users were.

Most A1200 users I've met didn't have a tower case, nor a (PCI)busboard. One didn't even have a CPU board. When I asked some of them why they didn't upgrade their Amiga's nearly all of them said it was too expensive, except the guy with the bare A1200. (He said "what do I need that for?" while he was looking at an out-of-memory requester.)

The A4000 users I've met said things like "I ran out of expansion slots" and "I want a faster CPU, but the PPC boards are sold out"



I wouldn't mind it the A4000 and A1200 version of the PowerVixxen were the same, though. It would reduce design and production costs.

Kind regards,

Dennis

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

I don't have a tower on my A1200 for one thing, and for another thing the PowerVixxen LT is supposed to come with a graphics card on board.

That was something I've never (and still) been clear on. The mini-PCI card may only come seperately for all we know, thus needing to use the AGA chipset in the 'base' A1200 version. I'd love to have facts saying otherwise, or even confirming this, though..

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

I don't have a tower on my A1200 for one thing, and for another thing the PowerVixxen LT is supposed to come with a graphics card on board.

Hmmm...will be interesting to see how they will work that out. I originally installed my BPPC into normal A1200 case, and that was a tight fit. Then there is the additional concern about power and heat. Like I said in my previous post, powering such beast through the A1200 motherboard is IMHO not advisable.

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"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." (Groucho Marx)

@A3000T

Quote:

I think only a few A1200s are heavily expanded, and most A4000 user I have met were a lot more willing to buy expansion hardware then the A1200 users were.

Obviously you have not been hanging around in Mediator mailing list or similar PCI busboard group - or have you?

Quote:

Most A1200 users I've met didn't have a tower case, nor a (PCI)busboard.

I suppose we have met different A1200 owners, then

Quote:

One didn't even have a CPU board. When I asked some of them why they didn't upgrade their Amiga's nearly all of them said it was too expensive, except the guy with the bare A1200. (He said "what do I need that for?" while he was looking at an out-of-memory requester.)

Not all people need heavy expansion - but if you want to use the machine to any serious use, you have to start spending money - and a lot. A1200 owners have to buy things big box Amiga users take for granted - like expansion slots (Zorro/PCI). I would like to think that for example Elbox has sold quite a few Mediators for A1200 owners.

Quote:

The A4000 users I've met said things like "I ran out of expansion slots" and "I want a faster CPU, but the PPC boards are sold out"

Heh, I ran out of expansion slots in my A1200T long time ago (I have a Mediator SX with six PCI slots). I want faster CPU to be used with my Mediator (I have a 240 MHz BPPC), preferably a pure PPC accelerator to be used with OS4.

Like I said, it is not early 1990's anymore - at least here where I live

Quote:

I wouldn't mind it the A4000 and A1200 version of the PowerVixxen were the same, though. It would reduce design and production costs.

This I fully agree with you.

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"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." (Groucho Marx)

@all

Just to let you know. Adam Kowalczyk has asked for people who will purchase the PowerVixxen LT for the A1200 to contact him over on amiga.org. So if you're definitely planning on getting one then I suggest you email him.

He would also like to know what kind of demand exists. He's also asked if anyone knows a good source for A1200 expansion connectors.

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Quote:

He would also like to know what kind of demand exists. He's also asked if anyone knows a good source for A1200 expansion connectors.

I just hope that this doesn't mean that he's having second thoughts on releasing it, as suddenly he wants to check out what the demand for PowerVixxen is.

@x56h34

I hope so too. It's also possible that if the demand is within a certain limit that he has enough connectors available to him. He said that he was having trouble getting the connectors in large quantities, not that there were absolutely none available.

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@all
I hope he comes over to see the interest here at AmigaWorld. I want one at least :)

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Sven Harvey
Amiga Mart in Micro Mart, Geekology 4M@, and other places
A1000, A2000, A1500 A500, CDTV, A500+, A600, A4000, A1200, CD32, AT A1200HD, A1-XE

I'd be willing to buy one, but not right away (e.g. as soon as it's released). I will probably wait for a few months before buying, as I'd like to see how the product turns out to be, before shelling out cash. Ideally, I'd like to go for an Amy board with final OS4.0 release.

Last edited by x56h34 on 04-Apr-2006 at 08:28 PM.

From Amiga.org

Quote:

ackcontrols: The target price is $299.00 USD MSRP for the board and an OEM copy of OS4. Taxes and shipping would be extra.

Last edited by WOSPUPOS4 on 04-Apr-2006 at 09:21 PM.

@createcoms

dont forget that gruntier (ooer !) tends to mean hotter (..Pff !), and there is more room even in an A4000D
than an A1200 for reasonable thermal flow. IIRC PV was intended for A1200D, which means one
is restricted that way, and CPU cards are considerably smaller.

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XH558 - the worlds last flying Vulcan.
ok, its actually XL426 in the picture but you know what I mean.

@CodeSmith

Quote:

...proved to be just noise

can you prove that ? it is just possible that it was true at time of going to press.
hardware makers have showstoppers too (I know I used to work for a PC CTI implementer)

_________________
XH558 - the worlds last flying Vulcan.
ok, its actually XL426 in the picture but you know what I mean.

@x56h34

Quote:

I just hope that this doesn't mean that he's having second thoughts on releasing it, as suddenly he wants to check out what the demand for PowerVixxen is.

I doubt that, I think it's more like he wants to see how much demand there is for the A1200 version before he worries about connectors for it. After all, if he can only source 100 connectors and only 90 people order, there are effectively no supply problems.