@opi

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I just confirmed that matter, because Matt has no account here (...)

Matt Sealey's account here

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i use both systems and my personal conclusions on which OS is the best are my own business, i would certainly not post it here or there as i would attract all fanatics from both sides. It's a pity that so many amiga users are still acting like narrow minded protective and conservative idiots. Things are moving on both "camps" (i hate this word and all war related vocabulary that is too widely used) but in different ways that should be complementary. Of course i gave up on the idea of "joining forces" (there is definately no wisdom in the amiga nowadays) and i'm only watching the situation without trying to get involved too much for one OS or the other.
The best way to save the amiga IMHO was the open source way. The Amiga sequels are still suffering from a stinky commercial battle and i don't think there's a future for the AmigaOS as a commercial OS. Unfortunately the AmigaOS will probably die from commercial and political conflicts, we are following the miserable path of Commodore in the early 90's. I had a dream of the AmigaOS back in the hands of its users and devoted developpers.

Last edited by SoundSquare on 10-May-2006 at 07:28 PM.

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@Acill_MOS

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Cant we just be friends and leave it at that? I came back here in good faith and to offer friendship. Remember in the past I had (still do in fact) offered to pay for a licence and only got flammed for it. The fact that I even offerd a good chuck of money and didnt even ask for anything in return should have shown where my loyalty is.

I think that PEB's post sums up what I found "offensive" (which isn't the right word, but I guess you get the idea) about your post. I am certainly not looking for a fight, especially with you, but I find things like the passage PEB quoted sound a lot like "my dad is stronger than your dad". Sorry if I overreact on this, but that is what usually starts the flaming.

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Rogue wrote: @WOSPUPOS4 Quote: How can that be propaganda Is it realy that wrong of Acill to say so ? Propaganda: The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause. Doesn't even matter if it's right or wrong, it's just the typical "MOS has much more" and "MOS is better" over and over yadda yadda thing. Whether it's right or wrong.. *shrugs* Prove one way or the other.

I am sorry. But i do think it was uncalled for. Acill is not the "bad guy" that tries to bad mouth either MOS or OS4. I can understand your frustration over all the crap talk that is in alot of posts on diffrent forums. I want peace in this comunity more then anything.

But lets look att OS4 vs MOS from an imaginary new user who whant to buy an Pegasos and compares the basic features of both systems.

Runs most OS friendly Amiga programs. OS4 - OK......MOS - OK
Can run old 68k programs in a very quick emualtion mode (JIT). OS4 - OK......MOS - OK
Have a TCP/IP stack. OS4 - OK......MOS - OK (Yes the OS4 version is better? but they both work)
Can run WarpUP programs. OS4 - OK......MOS - OK
Can run PowerUP programs. (No biggy as there isn't much that use it but anyway) OS4 - NO......MOS - OK
Can run Warp3D games and programs. OS4 - OK......MOS - OK
Runs on new PPC hw and is native PPC code. (In this case on the same hw. the pegasos) OS4 - OK......MOS - OK
Have native MUI ppc version. (Is MUI 4 confirmed for OS4? Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.) OS4 - No......MOS - OK
OpenGL support. OS4 - No (Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.)......MOS - OK
As for programs and native games both have some that the other lack right now like Quake 3 is available on MOS and DvPlayer on OS4 and so on.

Then comes the price. OS4 - Money....MOS - Free with the hw.
That was the point Acill was making. Altleast i hope so. Please shoot me if i'm wrong.

I hope this is not taken as some propaganda. I like both systems and would love to be able to use them both but both lack things for this. OS4 is not out for the BlizzPPC and MOS doesn't support the Mediator. So no go at either of them just yet.

Last edited by WOSPUPOS4 on 10-May-2006 at 09:28 PM.

@WOSPUPOS4

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Then comes the price. OS4 - Money....MOS - Free with the hw.

Not exactly, OS4 came with the hardware I bought and should come with the PowerVixxen when purchased as well. Except for people with old PowerPC hardware for their classics, part of the AmigaOS4 licensing deal says that the OS should not be sold separately from the hardware. At least that's what I remember being said.

Hans

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@WOSPUPOS4

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Have native MUI ppc version. (Is MUI 4 confirmed for OS4? Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.) OS4 - No......MOS - OK

Wrong. The MUI version that comes with OS 4 is fully PPC native.

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OpenGL support. OS4 - No (Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.)......MOS - OK

Wrong. OS 4 has as much OpenGL support as MOS has. None of them has a full OpenGL; both have a MiniGL or TinyGL.

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Then comes the price. OS4 - Money....MOS - Free with the hw.

Wrong. OS 4 and MorphOS are both bundled with the hardware. You can download an old MorphOS version for classics, but that hardly counts - you already have an old version of AmigaOS with your classic.

That makes your argument a whee bit void, does it?

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@SoundSquare

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my personal conclusions on which OS is the best are my own business

Spoilsport!

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"camps" (i hate this word and all war related vocabulary

This talk is now quite affectionate - I refer to people as from the 'blue camp' to acknowledge where their expertise and knowledge lies - it shouldn't be a sectarian thing these days.

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The best way to save the amiga IMHO was the open source way. The Amiga sequels are still suffering from a stinky commercial battle

Well, I think they are all the same. The development experience on OS4, MOS and AROS should be pushed into a singularity. We are all part of the same entity.

@Rogue

>Wrong. OS 4 has as much OpenGL support as MOS has. None of them has a full OpenGL; both have a MiniGL or TinyGL.

Wrong. TinyGL has more functionality than MiniGL as i said multiple times on this site already. It's also
visible by number of applications it can drive.

>Wrong. OS 4 and MorphOS are both bundled with the hardware. You can download an old MorphOS version for classics, but that hardly counts - you already have an old version of AmigaOS with your classic.

Version for classic machines is as old as the one for Pegaso

@WOSPUPOS4

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Have native MUI ppc version. (Is MUI 4 confirmed for OS4? Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.) OS4 - No......MOS - OK OpenGL support. OS4 - No (Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.)......MOS - OK

Actually both wrong, as OS4 has MUI 3.9 PPC (v4 is in the works) and supports a subset of OpenGL (same as MOS does).

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@Thread

surely people are missing the point here? OS4 will be released with new hardware as soon as it's available, and old politics which really just divide people and make them squabble will always be in the background just as they are in any company. BBRV has always had his eye on the amiga brand name, and he's bound to because if it wasn't for OS4 it would be the only part of amiga worth having.

I for one am just waiting for the right hardware to come along and I'll then own OS4.

MorphOS users are just people running a different OS from OS4 users, and OS4 users are just people running a different OS to morphOS.

If Os4 didnt exist i'd want to run MorphOS.

Second hand stories of what so and so said don't help and inflame silly little battles that need to be buried.

I quite like the fact that there is an alternative to what i consider to be the best OS. It provides competition, and competition usually raises standards.

On the hardware side, if people have business agreements we as users whilst not necessarily liking them have to accept the results, as ultimately (as a software developer myself) i know you have to make money from it, or you dont eat :o)

@opi

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No worry. I just confirmed that matter, because Matt has no account here and he couldn't do that by himself.

Who's Neko then?

Seem that most keep talkin about Pegasos, I though bbrv blog was mostly about (the possibility of) OS4 being used on EFIKA.

[Seen that quoted question was already adressed by polka.]

Last edited by pixie on 10-May-2006 at 10:55 PM.

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@RockDemon

I agree entirely.

Obviously Rogue has to respond to posts that are technically wrong but I find these MOS/OS4 comparison posts annoying.

To the people who are still stuck in a time warp around the time of the OS4 on Tour days - checkout OS4pre-U4 - if you haven't seen OS4 since 2004 you should stay quiet!

Rogue wrote:
@WOSPUPOS4

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Have native MUI ppc version. (Is MUI 4 confirmed for OS4? Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.) OS4 - No......MOS - OK Wrong. The MUI version that comes with OS 4 is fully PPC native.

Knew i missed something. This is better then. Both is OK. Thats was the planed when i made the post. Not to be in favor of any of them.

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OpenGL support. OS4 - No (Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.)......MOS - OK Wrong. OS 4 has as much OpenGL support as MOS has. None of them has a full OpenGL; both have a MiniGL or TinyGL.

Oh didn't realize that
I have read a couple of times that some OS4 software can't be made until OpenGL is supported. Guess i missinterpreted it then.

And then i got even better. Both OK

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Then comes the price. OS4 - Money....MOS - Free with the hw. Wrong. OS 4 and MorphOS are both bundled with the hardware. You can download an old MorphOS version for classics, but that hardly counts - you already have an old version of AmigaOS with your classic. That makes your argument a whee bit void, does it?

Oh i was under the impression that it would be a version that would be buyable for those with a Pegasos that was intressted. Atleast that is what i understod from what Acill wrote.
But now that you explained it that way i can see how that would make a Pegasos port impossible.

And for the MOS version being old
It's the same version as the Pegasos version is it not ?

Last edited by WOSPUPOS4 on 10-May-2006 at 11:07 PM.
Last edited by WOSPUPOS4 on 10-May-2006 at 11:03 PM.

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Giovanni wrote: @WOSPUPOS4 Quote: Have native MUI ppc version. (Is MUI 4 confirmed for OS4? Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.) OS4 - No......MOS - OK OpenGL support. OS4 - No (Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.)......MOS - OK Actually both wrong, as OS4 has MUI 3.9 PPC (v4 is in the works) and supports a subset of OpenGL (same as MOS does).

Yes. I'm only human. I made a misstake.

But as for the OpenGL part i can't understand why i have read from some OS4 developer that some software can't be ported to OS4 because it hasn't got OpenGL support. Someone who can explain it in easy to understand terms ?

@brotheris

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It just sounds that way. English is not my native language and I'm not PR person

Ok. Written text can easily be misinterpreted. No damage done.


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Nah, you just see it from your perspective.

Yeah and you see it from yours. It's the same for everyone.
Many MorphOS users see OS4 users as blind followers. IMHO this true for some
but not for the majority. There are some blind followers on the other side aswell
as can be seen on MorphZone. I do visit it sometimes to read up on what's
happening and to try and keep an open mind about the OSes.


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In early days developers wrote lots of info about progress, what was new, why some things didn't work yet, but worked on internal betas. Later (some) people started to get angry about teasing. Info stopped and communication was internal. Then there was bitching about "lack of info". Proper releases take time to package everything right, so "sheduled" and quiet releases were made. MOS 1.4 was released and then were was trouble with financing from Genesi. Internal friction grew, communication from developers were mostly NIL (after a while you start to ignore "bitching"), then famous 2004 11 website was opened, team split finaly went public, MOSTeam reorganized itself and started to release inceremental releases again, few PowerUP releases were made, 3D libraries were released, serious apps were released (Blender for example), Ambient updates, new MUI alpha with many new features, Poseidon3 (but it's a bit 1.5+ dependant), etc.

Yeah, I remember this. I have been visiting ANN and Morphzone on and off for well
three-four years. Even posting a couple of post at MorphZone.

Zylesea explained why it's not released yet so I'm satisfied with that info.
Hopefully you guys (and gals) will se a new MorphOS update later this year then..


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Yeah, pre-prerealese-4 times were more about software than hardware, but I won't go further into this.

Why not? I think since October it has really been almost ONLY about hardware.
Yeah, we wanted OS4 final for christmas, but I can live with that it wasn't released.
With no hardware I wouldn't release it either. I think no sane person would.

Or did you mean MorphOS around the prerelease4 time???

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Haha, just don't want to get banned 8-D

Damn! I gave you such a good bait even..

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@WOSPUPOS4

Man, we kind of clobbered you after your comparison post didn't we? The next few posts were all from people like me correcting misconceptions.

Anyway...

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But as for the OpenGL part i can't understand why i have read from some OS4 developer that some software can't be ported to OS4 because it hasn't got OpenGL support. Someone who can explain it in easy to understand terms ?

The problem with MiniGL and TinyGL is that they support only a subset of the OpenGL API. This makes them faster than a full implementation for the features that are supported, but any application that uses non-supported features won't work. Hence, there is some software that still can't be ported until we have a full OpenGL implementation. As MiniGL's source is available, you could always extend it yourself. However, MESA for OS4 is on the way, so why bother.

Hans

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@kiero

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Wrong. TinyGL has more functionality than MiniGL as i said multiple times on this site already

Like?

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@WOSPUPOS4

Quote:

I am sorry. But i do think it was uncalled for. Acill is not the "bad guy" that tries to bad mouth either MOS or OS4. I can understand your frustration over all the crap talk that is in alot of posts on diffrent forums. I want peace in this comunity more then anything. But lets look att OS4 vs MOS from an imaginary new user who whant to buy an Pegasos and compares the basic features of both systems. Runs most OS friendly Amiga programs. OS4 - OK......MOS - OK Can run old 68k programs in a very quick emualtion mode (JIT). OS4 - OK......MOS - OK Have a TCP/IP stack. OS4 - OK......MOS - OK (Yes the OS4 version is better? but they both work) Can run WarpUP programs. OS4 - OK......MOS - OK Can run PowerUP programs. (No biggy as there isn't much that use it but anyway) OS4 - NO......MOS - OK Can run Warp3D games and programs. OS4 - OK......MOS - OK Runs on new PPC hw and is native PPC code. (In this case on the same hw. the pegasos) OS4 - OK......MOS - OK Have native MUI ppc version. (Is MUI 4 confirmed for OS4? Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.) OS4 - No......MOS - OK OpenGL support. OS4 - No (Later yes. but i'm comparing the OS as it is now.)......MOS - OK As for programs and native games both have some that the other lack right now like Quake 3 is available on MOS and DvPlayer on OS4 and so on. Then comes the price. OS4 - Money....MOS - Free with the hw. That was the point Acill was making. Altleast i hope so. Please shoot me if i'm wrong. I hope this is not taken as some propaganda. I like both systems and would love to be able to use them both but both lack things for this. OS4 is not out for the BlizzPPC and MOS doesn't support the Mediator. So no go at either of them just yet.

Wow, you got my point perfectly! Thank you. I didnt think I was the only one.

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@Rogue

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Rogue wrote: Quote: Then comes the price. OS4 - Money....MOS - Free with the hw. Wrong. OS 4 and MorphOS are both bundled with the hardware. You can download an old MorphOS version for classics, but that hardly counts - you already have an old version of AmigaOS with your classic. That makes your argument a whee bit void, does it?

Wrong, you can get the latest MorphOS 1.4.5 for classic systems for free and register for free as well with no limits on the OS at all.

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@WOSPUPOS4

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Then comes the price. OS4 - Money....MOS - Free with the hw.

How many AmigaOne users had to pay extra to get OS4?

Well, uh, OK, I never actually got the OS4 CD and reg key I should have but I still run OS4 on the thing legally as it was part of the total package. I just can't get to any OS4 native updates of Hyperion games from their download site.

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