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PosterThread
Zylesea 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 7:41:56
#381 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2168
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@R-TEAM

DVplayer is faster than MPlayer because it filters less. MPlayer on
MOs is quite optimized and does the job well.
I wouldn't reject a player like DVplayer on MOS, but in reality it is
a compromise between performance and qualitiy. lower the filter
quality gain speed - that's how DVplayer does the trick.
MPlayer has the better filters, but those cost cpu time. Quite easy,

In the end both players are fine while the DVplayer has some
questionable legality.

_________________
My programs: www.via-altera.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

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SlayeR__ 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 8:35:34
#382 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2002
Posts: 634
From: Unknown

@To all OS4 vs MOS posters

Make your own thread plz.

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ronaldst 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 13:11:09
#383 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 6-Jun-2005
Posts: 495
From: Montréal, Québec

@Kaos @Fab

You buy ugly cars? Go out with fugly girls? Gotcha!

I'm not saying that AmigaOS4 is very lovely. It's not. But it's UI is just right for a desktop OS. And that is my opinion. It would be in the MorphOS team's best interest to clean up the UI. They'd have more than less than a 1000 Amigans using Pegasos right now. First impressions sell.

Now I won't go ballistix, like the author of the OSNews article, and say that X piece of software has ruined my life, X company is destroying the world and X person is waiting in a white van down the street out to get me.

Fair looks is important to me for an OS. Sometimes I was wrong like Windows XP's new UI. They put that horrible casing colour, beige, inside our monitors. lol I hated it at first but then grew to like it a lot. The new Royale there is even better. Other times, I grew to hate it like with MacOS X. I found it pretty at first but then when the novelty wore off I dumped it.

That is all for today children.

_________________
- Ronald

All beer tastes bad.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 14:04:43
#384 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11209
From: Norway

@AmigaOS vs MorphOS

The choice between Morph OS and AmigaOS4 me is about, low-level implementations,

+ The memory system
(Fragmented memory is big problem whit older versions of Amiga OS)

+ Emulation methods
(Task based emulation takes no more CPU then it needs)

+ Memory protection
(Stops bad programs before they do damage.
Memory protection detects problems unknown to developer.)

+ debugging features
(Grims give useful information when the OS reports problems)

+ New standard API’s (PCI, USB and Amiga Input)
(Replaced 3rd party standards that likely to require licences to be included, or requires the users to download them from 3rd part websites, this is likely to keep the cost down.)

+ No host OS.
(No extra layers that translates or no forwarding information to a host
Amitalon, AmigaXL, MorphOS all use micro kernels or host OS to run from, AmigaOS4 do not.)

As for MorphOS on classic Amiga is reported to be too slow from few users.
AmigaOS4 on classic Amiga is reported to speed up the OS experience the few users using it.

I’m not really not concerned about the number of programs running on Morph OS vs AmigaOS4, but from the stats on Aminet AmigaOS4 shows more programs, even if has only bin available for shorter time compared whit Morph OS.

There are some programs that few users are missing looking at progress on OS4, there are lots of evidence of lots programs coming, thanks to X11 port, and GTK wrappers being worked on, free Pascal is coming, there number of developers that supports all platforms, and there is a few that makes there source code available under GPL.

The only thing that AmigaOS 4 I see as problem is the progress on HW, its unclear when we are getting any.

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Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
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http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

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Hans 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 14:12:10
#385 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4915
From: New Zealand

@Zylesea

Quote:

In the end both players are fine while the DVplayer has some
questionable legality.


?????
Where do you get that from? Libavcodec is LGPL; DvPlayer uses it as a shared library; sounds perfectly legal to me. AFAIK DvPlayer was either written from scratch or used some code from the author's previous video player so there's no issue there either.

If your problem is that libavcodec can link to GPLed plugins, that's like me writing a program with a plugin API, then you come along and write a plugin. Next, you make the plugin license GPL and then turn around to me and say "your program can link to my GPLed plugin code, now your lib is GPL too, give me the darn source NOW!" That's obviously not fair and not right.

Hans

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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FithisUX 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 14:29:37
#386 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 119
From: Unknown

@Kaos

Much better than XP. I think MS should have kept Xenix and develop it further. It would now be more OSS friendly.

By the way, since I do not use MOs, does it have an open USB stack? I heard that it has one but it is proprietary. Any comments?

Thanks.

Two are the problems of AOS-> Proprietary, small HW base. But there are a lot of PPC projects round there :
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9007050548.html

this sounds good but need more memory -> 256/512 would be ideal. @400MHZ with the 2700 it is a cake.

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Zardoz 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 14:30:31
#387 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
+ Emulation methods
(Task based emulation takes no more CPU then it needs)


MorphOS' emulation method doesn't take any CPU time when it's not in use by a task. Next...

Quote:

+ Memory protection
(Stops bad programs before they do damage.
Memory protection detects problems unknown to developer.)


This is not supported fully by AmigaOS4. As a matter of fact, the same amount of memory protection is available in MorphOS.

Quote:
+ debugging features
(Grims give useful information when the OS reports problems)


Only real difference is GDB, not Grim itself, IMHO. Now, THAT'S a feature to list.

Quote:
+ New standard API?s (PCI, USB and Amiga Input)
(Replaced 3rd party standards that likely to require licences to be included, or requires the users to download them from 3rd part websites, this is likely to keep the cost down.)


Er, same with MorphOS?

Quote:
+ No host OS.
(No extra layers that translates or no forwarding information to a host
Amitalon, AmigaXL, MorphOS all use micro kernels or host OS to run from, AmigaOS4 do not.)


Er, Amithlon runs on a linux kernel, AmigaXL is UAE on QNX.
MorphOS is the only, from the ones you mentioned, that uses a microkernel and you cannot compare it to the ones you listed, as the drivers and everything run on ExecPPC, not Quark. You've yet to show one example where this approach is slower.

Quote:
As for MorphOS on classic Amiga is reported to be too slow from few users.
AmigaOS4 on classic Amiga is reported to speed up the OS experience the few users using it.


The first MorphOS for classic release was slow because of excessive default MUI settings, there have been two further releases rectifying this. The MUI features enabled by default had only been tested on much faster hardware. Also, there was another problem in the first release, involving a missing default font in the distribution. Every time a MUI window was opened, it would flood the system by looking for the font everywhere, causing a glitch. Also fixed in the second release.

It's quite funny, both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS have some features that are unique and nice and you always miss them in both OSes.

Last edited by AMiGR on 12-May-2006 at 02:42 PM.
Last edited by AMiGR on 12-May-2006 at 02:34 PM.

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brotheris 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 14:30:53
#388 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-May-2005
Posts: 193
From: Unknown

@R-TEAM

Quote:

but on OS4 side, on a full OpenGL based LOW LEVEL driven API [that going not first
over a second API (W3d/Rave3D) ] is in work, from the maker of W3D


Why do you compare things that are versus those that will come sometime in undefined future ? It only creates fanboyism. The same was with some "announced" OS4 features that are long forgotten now (remeber automatic stack enlargement?)

@NutsAboutAmiga

[edit] deleted, AMIGR was there first

Last edited by brotheris on 12-May-2006 at 02:34 PM.

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Kaos 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 15:06:25
#389 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

Quote:

FithisUX wrote:
@Kaos

Much better than XP. I think MS should have kept Xenix and develop it further. It would now be more OSS friendly.


I had Windows 1.0 back then but never liked it. I had no problems with XP but I don't use it anymore. I have been using Linux for the last 5 years

Quote:

By the way, since I do not use MOs, does it have an open USB stack? I heard that it has one but it is proprietary. Any comments?

Thanks.

Two are the problems of AOS-> Proprietary, small HW base. But there are a lot of PPC projects round there :
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9007050548.html

this sounds good but need more memory -> 256/512 would be ideal. @400MHZ with the 2700 it is a cake.


MOS uses the same USB stack as classic Amiga's, Poseidon. It's not open. Poseidon works great on my A4000 and Peg, almost every USB device I got works including my Wacom tablet.

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Kaos 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 15:23:01
#390 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

Quote:

ronaldst wrote:
@Kaos @Fab

You buy ugly cars? Go out with fugly girls? Gotcha!

I'm not saying that AmigaOS4 is very lovely. It's not. But it's UI is just right for a desktop OS. And that is my opinion. It would be in the MorphOS team's best interest to clean up the UI. They'd have more than less than a 1000 Amigans using Pegasos right now. First impressions sell.

snip..

That is all for today children.


Well I like pretty girls but that's got nothing to with it

I'm not gone argue with you about the looks of MorphOS that's pointless. You don't hear me say that OS4 is ugly because I like OS4 too. Heck I can even make MOS look just the same as OS4 if I want to but I rather use my own skins

About cleaning up the UI, the Ambient team are working hard and every day you can download a new build. I like what they are doing, the UI is very configurable and usable. Together with MUI alpha 4 it just looks good IMHO. Ambient is getting better every day.

Last edited by Kaos on 12-May-2006 at 03:25 PM.

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Framiga 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 15:35:58
#391 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jul-2003
Posts: 2212
From: Unknown

@ronaldst

come on ronaldst! is not that bad afterall!

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itix 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 16:07:02
#392 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world


EDITED by wegster- reasons:
Requests from our staff: At any time, if a moderator or administrator makes a request of a user, that user is expected to follow the instructions. We rarely, if ever, challenge our users to do something (usually this has to do with an inappropriate avatar or some sort of aberrant behaviour). However, when it does happen, we expect it to be followed; participate in this site, and you participate in it as a privilege, not a right. You may always PM an administrator or the webmaster to ask questions or file a complaint. However, I place great faith and trust in my staff to do the right thing. Your cooperation is appreciated.

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Last edited by wegster on 12-May-2006 at 04:56 PM.

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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IonMane 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 16:12:56
#393 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 550
From: Adelaide Australia.

forget it

Last edited by IonMane on 13-May-2006 at 04:51 PM.
Last edited by wegster on 12-May-2006 at 04:57 PM.

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wegster 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 17:00:27
#394 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@thread

Are we done with the trolling and baiting yet, or am I going to have to go on a copy and paste tirade?

I do not like editing user's posts, but at this point, it's gone way past salvation. Not all posts were in the same categories as listed (baiting, trolling, flaming, req from staff), although all persisted even after multiple Staff requests.

I'd prefer not to have to clean house on the WAY OT posts as well, or lock the thread.

Your guys actions will decide. If you can't be civil to one another, then go meet up and beat the hell out of each other, but don't do it in this thread. Comprende?

Oh, any any 'why was I moderated?' questions from this thread...send them to Staff via PM. Otherwise, you will be restricted.


_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

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ackcontrls 
Re: Is Genesi still intersted in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 17:27:57
#395 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2006
Posts: 92
From: Unknown

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

Neither board has been photographed, let alone is with Beta testers - so realistically we are a year away from product shipping from dealers.


I've never quite understood the rationale that if I've not seen it, it doesn't exist. Boards will not be released to beta-testers as beta products, they will be delivered as final product. A high end board will be demonstrated approximately one month after the CPUs are demoed. Period.

ACK

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T_Bone 
Re: Is Genesi still intersted in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 18:24:48
#396 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Sep-2003
Posts: 3043
From: here To: there

@ackcontrls

Quote:

ackcontrls wrote:
@Colin_Camper

Quote:

Neither board has been photographed, let alone is with Beta testers - so realistically we are a year away from product shipping from dealers.


I've never quite understood the rationale that if I've not seen it, it doesn't exist.


Conditioned reflex. You must be new here.

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T_Bone 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 20:57:45
#397 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Sep-2003
Posts: 3043
From: here To: there

@FithisUX

Quote:

FithisUX wrote:
@Kaos

Much better than XP. I think MS should have kept Xenix and develop it further. It would now be more OSS friendly.




It was developed further, it became SCO Unix. SCO isn't more OSS friendly.

_________________
"If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." - Oscar Wilde

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Hondo 
Re: Is Genesi still intersted in Amiga market?
Posted on 12-May-2006 21:05:11
#398 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1347
From: Denmark

@ackcontrls


Quote:
A high end board will be demonstrated approximately one month after the CPUs are demoed. Period.


Are you referring to a board, we don't know anything about yet ????

_________________
On Planet Boing Trevor is God

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SlayeR__ 
Re: Is Genesi still intersted in Amiga market?
Posted on 13-May-2006 7:16:30
#399 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Dec-2002
Posts: 634
From: Unknown

@Hondo_DK

Quote:
Are you referring to a board, we don't know anything about yet ????


Theres has been some hints of a high end board, this months hint is the most concrete until now, i still see it as a rumour so i dont put that much hope in it, still hoping for something better then now though.

Edit: tpyo and added text

Last edited by SlayeR__ on 13-May-2006 at 12:52 PM.

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Anonymous 
Re: Is Genesi still intrested in Amiga market?
Posted on 13-May-2006 13:22:35
# ]

0
0

Quote:
ronaldst wrote:

@Atheist

Quote:
Atheist wrote:
BBRV has 2 choices; buy a license, or buy Amiga Inc.

Or he can get the judge to reconsider. If BBRV overlooked something that can change the current situation then good for him and Amigans. That way I can pick up some hardware with AmigaOS4 one day.

Hi ronaldst,

Well let's see. Buy Amiga IP on Dec. 31, 1999 for 3 to 5 million $* to make $4.50 x ~1500 = $6,750* in June 2006.... would make Amiga Inc. the most generous corporation (or should I call them a charity) in the history of Capitalism.

Perhaps we should throw ourselves to the floor, ala "Wayne's World", chanting "We're not worthy, we're not worthy!..."


* Remember to factor in, what was the American dollar worth then, compared to now!!!!



Quote:
Quote:
Atheist wrote:

So, am I still strange?

wegster wrote:


Do you REALLY want an answer to that. Of course you are.

wegster, wegster, wegster,

!

 
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