@polka.

Regarding the reply to Rouge, that was beautifully argued! I couldn't have said it better myself!

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@afxgroup

Quote:

STOP.. PLEASE STOP... PLEASE STOP... PLEASE STOOOOOOPPPPP!!!!!

Redirect these comments to your fingers and your keyboard and take a break.

Nobody's forcing anyone to read or even post anything, so I don't understand what the whining is all about.

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@Rogue

Best reading points so far,

but:

Quote:

So yes, I *am* bored with this discussion, mostly because it is a dead horse and has been beaten to death at least a hundred times in the meanwhile. You may like or dislike the reasons I have given, but face it, it is irrelevant because it just will not happen.

Good luck, maybe after another hundred times this horse will choke on its puke. . .

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@wolfe

Quote:

wolfe wrote: Good luck, maybe after another hundred times this horse will choke on its puke. . .

A dead horse puking? Now this I've got to see! Only another hundred repetitions to go...

Hans

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@Rogue

Quote:

Reason 2: x86 equals Windows

I fail to understand exactly the business sense of forcing someone to buy an hardware which (a) costs more (b) performs less then competition makes it suddenly more appealable then having one box that not only is on par with the rest of IT world, but still gives it the edge above others due to its close integration with the OS-

If that logic would had prevail, Amiga would have been since the demise of Commodore the most sucessfull company around due to its high prices, but history hadn't shown it that way.

Quote:

Reason 3: x86 means a multitude of chipsets to support

So the Gfx boards, and it seem you managed to have lots of drivers for the vast majority of them.

But to me this is even a false question. OK, you don't want to worry on doing lot of drivers for lots of MBs, but just how different would it be if instead of relying in one PPC board with low volume (that it isn't produced anymore) you picked one (or n other MB that fited your target market) x86 boards with much higher volume production? Just exactly how much would it differ, besides (a) having a less costy motherboard, and (b) more powerfull one that allowed people to have a productive envirnoment instead of having 2 computers in their desk.

Quote:

Reason 4: There is no x86 in the embedded market

I think no one is saying to leave PPC...

Quote:

Okay, that's all I am going to say. Go ahead and dismantle my arguments, I don't care because they are valid for Hyperion and hence nothing you can say is ever going to change this (especially with respect to 1 and 4). We could discuss the gender of angels with the same practical relevance here, the x86 discussion makes about that much sense.

Well, if you don't want to hear what costumers have to say, be my guest... if you think that's good for business..

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@polka.

Quote:

But since Hyperion was contracted for OS4.0,

I wonder where people always get such strange ideas from ... Anyway, since that's not the case the rest of your post makes even less sense.

@Hans

Well this thread is kinda like " Dawn of the Dead Horse"

And maybe I was a bit conservative and really meant to say a thousand more times, since it didn't really take after the first hundred . . .

For those who really want an Amiga style OS on a PC there is AROS, have fun . . .

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@elatour
Quote:

Nobody's forcing anyone to read or even post anything, so I don't understand what the whining is all about.

The whining is in regards to rehashing the same old arguments over and over again. After browsing this thread a bit I see the same old arguments from the same old people. Nothing has changed. Kinda sad really. But feel free to keep arguing if it passes the time. No law against that. But it is frustrating to see the same arguments over and over again on the front page instead of seeing topics about people using their computers to do something novel.

@all
Back on topic, I don't give a flying fck if the hardware is x86 or not. I care about the performance of the computer system and the experience as a whole. The hardware, the software and the social support network all working together are what matters to me. I'll probably get a nasty-gram for saying this but, for example, that is the reason I will not get into AROS. The hardware is basically free, the software has freedom but the social support network is polluted with an arrogance and confrontational attitude I can't stand. So although the hardware is important, for me it is only a piece of what I need to have a satisfying computing experience.

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@polka.
Quote:

Reality flash, that's what people already do.

That might be what YOU do, but that is not generally true. I still know a lot of amiga-only people. Besides browsers are just an example, it would go for every kind of software, essentially making the Amiga market totally unattractive for software development.

Quote:

It exactly is a result of the "custom-PPC-hardware-only" situation.

No it isn't. Look at the situation of Yellow Tab and tell me why a company selling into the oh-so-profitable x86 market has filed fro Chapter 11? That's wishful thinking. Unless you have a very specialized customer base, desktop OSes on x86 are a no-go.

Don't say Linux now. The market share for Linux on x86 is so insignificant that most companies don't even bother to port their software to Linux. Since I am a fan of Neverwinter Nights, I can tell you that the percentage of people playing the Linux version of NWN online is below 0.1%, and it isn't like the Linux game market is swamped with alternatives.

Quote:

The sad thing is just that the OS4-partners didn't realize that from the start.

The sad part is that you do not have a clue what you are talking about. How many examples of failed attempts on x86 exactly do you need? BeOS? Zeta? OS/2? Linux?

What do you propose to tell those that have Amiga's? No sorry you don't have x86? Ridiculous.

Quote:

There is no reason to keep on developing for 4.x on license-dongled hardware.

Well, I got news for you. IF there had been an X86 version, it would have been similar to what there is now, for numerous reasons. Why do you suppose is there no MacOS X for stock PC's? Why do you suppose are Intel Macs not a penny cheaper than the PowerPC Macs?

Quote:

If the embedded market looks more proftable and the desktop market only generates losses, why not completely abandon it?

I have been asking myself the same question, and I can tell you the reason - we are Amiga fans. All of us. That is why we do it. It certainly isn't for the money; if it where that, we wouldn't even have started it. To date, the development has swallowed a six-digit amount of Euros.

Quote:

the talk about x86 is a result of the no-hardware situation.

And apparently also because of ability to use the search function; there is no other explanation why the same threads pop up over and over again.

Quote:

However, even when hardware becomes available, it will still be expensive and rather slow compared to what is state of the art on x86.

I don't think that a 2 GHz G5 is slow. If you want to join the Mhz race, I invite you to use Windows. It's there, it's relatively inexpensive, the hardware is inexpensive too (unless of course you count in graphics cards that cost as much as a whole AmigaOne).

Quote:

People will still see this as a main hurdle for getting any customers outside the group of Amiga-fanatics.

There are no customers outside the grounp of Amiga-fanatics. Name me a few good reasons why a MacOS or Windows user should use AmigaOS, regardless of the hardware platform? I'm sorry, but I am not arrogant enough to think that AmigaOS (or any clone, for the matter) could go against any mainstream OS. It's an OS for Amiga hobbyists, and it will take a long time and a lot of work to get it to any other state. So, pray, how would you like to attract masses of new users outside the Amiga market?

Ah, nevermind.

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@joerg
Quote:

joerg wrote: @polka. Quote: But since Hyperion was contracted for OS4.0, I wonder where people always get such strange ideas from ...

What is so strange of that "idea" since Amiga Inc. owns the rights to it? The contract is about OS4.0 exactly.

Quote:

Anyway, since that's not the case the rest of your post makes even less sense.

Well, since this is a discussion forum, you might want to explain that statement a bit. Maybe you have even some arguments or points to make?

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@Kronos

Quote:

Dunno, but 4.5 years aga I bought a new x86 box to run Amithlon, and I still think it would have been best for the community if that had been declared "OS4" by making it the official upgrade path.

Why not Amiga Forever, then? Both run OS 3.1, a clear path into the future for sure.

Quote:

But as allways they managed to snatch a defeat out of the hands of a certain victory

How much software actually comes from UAE/AmigaForever/Amithlon users?

Certain victory, yeah. It never ceases to amaze me how many people are gifted with foresight.

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@wolfe

Quote:

wolfe wrote: @Hans Well this thread is kinda like " Dawn of the Dead Horse" And maybe I was a bit conservative and really meant to say a thousand more times, since it didn't really take after the first hundred . . .

Darn it. More waiting...




I have to say that AROS is progressing. I wish that someone would develop a proper installation system though. It would need to allow dual-booting with windows. It would also help if it could read/write NTFS partitions. Actually, all Amiga OSes could use an NTFS filesystem driver. There's a beta for Morphos and AmigaOS 3.x on the aminet. Not sure how good it is as I don't have a MOS os classic machine to try it on.

Hans

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@Rogue

Quote:

That might be what YOU do, but that is not generally true. I still know a lot of amiga-only people. Besides browsers are just an example, it would go for every kind of software, essentially making the Amiga market totally unattractive for software development.

20-30 ?

Quote:

The sad part is that you do not have a clue what you are talking about. How many examples of failed attempts on x86 exactly do you need? BeOS? Zeta? OS/2? Linux?

And how many success stories on PPC? Apple? or Apple business sense?

Quote:

Well, I got news for you. IF there had been an X86 version, it would have been similar to what there is now, for numerous reasons. Why do you suppose is there no MacOS X for stock PC's? Why do you suppose are Intel Macs not a penny cheaper than the PowerPC Macs?

The problem with this POV is that it would cost less to costumers, obviously...

Last edited by pixie on 18-May-2006 at 04:27 PM.

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@Seehund

Quote:

Oh yes! And Linux. And AROS. And *BSD. And ...

Oh, come on. The only thing that remotely threatens the position of Windows is Linux. AROS, BSD, you gotta be kidding.

Quote:

You mean just like with PPC or any other CPU, then.

Yes, the same problem exists with other CPU's, however, there aren't that many PowerPC boards and hence the selection of chipsets is limited.

Quote:

Even if this were entirely true, then neither has AmigaOS. Any impact on the embedded market, that is.

Contrary to x86, PowerPC are being used in embedded applications. We do have a PDA running AmigaOS to begin with (unfortunately I don't think I am allowed to show the video I recorded), and there are concrete plans (which I surely cannot comment on).

Quote:

AHT had negotiated and were about to sign a licence deal for AOS4 on an STB when AInc did a U-turn on them, and before that AHT were asked by their advisors how much AInc would pay AHT for putting AmigaOS on their STB!

You clearly totally underestimate the power of the Amiga name.

Quote:

After the "Two More Weeks" and "When It's Done" slogans, perhaps it's time to adopt "Four More Years" from American politics? ;)

Spare me the cynical comments, I didn't specify any timeframe. Just wait and see. Or not, I don't care.

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@Rogue

Quote:

Contrary to x86, PowerPC are being used in embedded applications. We do have a PDA running AmigaOS to begin with (unfortunately I don't think I am allowed to show the video I recorded), and there are concrete plans (which I surely cannot comment on).

Nice little tid-bit of info. It's a pity you can't show the video as I would definitely like to see it (as I'm sure many others would. I wonder how many rumor threads this will spawn? Anyway, it's nice to know that things are happening behind the scenes.

Hans

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@polka.

Quote:

What is so strange of that "idea" since Amiga Inc. owns the rights to it?

As long as you base everything on wrong assumtions your posts make no sense, Amiga Inc. doesn't own AmigaOS4.

Have to say yes, I would buy ANY platform that could run OS4+


Wol.

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@ssolie

Quote:

But it is frustrating to see the same arguments over and over again on the front page instead of seeing topics about people using their computers to do something novel.

First people need hardware to do something novel on. Which is precisely the reason for these topics. And the best way to get as many of them as possible to do so, is to give people more accessible and affordable hardware platform choices not less, which be less likely as a desktop platform as time goes on. So the argument is quite valid.

I think that you'll see alot less of these arguements once/if there new Amiga PPC hardware, but they'll never go way, not unless you see some form of viable x86 option. In fact, you'll be more sure to see these arguments resurface again WHEN, NOT IF, the PPC manufacturer goes belly up or chose to move to greener pastures.

It's not the frustration that I comment on, it's the insistance on dumping on, insulting or criticizing the people who choose to continue discussing it, some of them newbies to these forums. It takes far less energy to ignore those topics and move on than it does to read through them and take the time to insult or belittle someone who has asked a legitimate question.

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@Wol

Good point !!




Me too !!

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I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

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@pixie

Quote:

Still... a x86 box would always be cheaper then a PPC one

Please, tell this to Apple as their x86 boxes aren't cheaper then their PPC boxes.

Ciao, Alfred