@Ami603

A FPGA is a programmable logic. I don't know if they're capable of performing as a vector unit, but I guess they do.
It probably depends of the brand/model.

@Ami603

I know that a chip made by FPGA is quite slow, so usually isn't used for computing high volume of data.

Video processing unit, require a DSP processor for best performance, but I know that a DSP usually isn't made by FPGA way.

Usually FPGA is a best choice for low volume production of boards or for testing boards, but are slow respect to ASIC way used for CPU or DSP (video/audio decoding).

@AmigaCori

Quote:

I know that a chip made by FPGA is quite slow, so usually isn't used for computing high volume of data. Video processing unit, require a DSP processor for best performance, but I know that a DSP usually isn't made by FPGA way. Usually FPGA is a best choice for low volume production of boards or for testing boards, but are slow respect to ASIC way used for CPU or DSP (video/audio decoding).

You're wrong

For example, with a Virtex 4 FPGA you can implement a PPC cpu up to 450Mhz, and with a Virtex 5 you can implement a 550Mhz DSP

_________________
Massimiliano Tretene, ACube Systems, Soft3

@AV, Ami603, AmigaCori

for Amiga side:
If it's a programmable FPGA, why not amiga classic custom chips? (IIRC, minimig is made on a FPGA).
It could be extremely useful for a smooth transisiton from classic amigas.
Next,
when the transistion is done, it could become something like an audio/video processor.


for linux/embedded/xxx side:
If it's a programmable FPGA, it could be what the market needs (compatibility with FPGA specs&performance)

My 2 cents,
Showman

Last edited by ShowMan on 09-Sep-2006 at 03:46 PM.
Last edited by ShowMan on 09-Sep-2006 at 03:22 PM.
Last edited by ShowMan on 09-Sep-2006 at 03:17 PM.
Last edited by ShowMan on 09-Sep-2006 at 02:49 PM.

@ShowMan

Quote:

for Amiga side: If it's a programmable FPGA, why not amiga classic custom chips? (IIRC, minimig is made on a FPGA).

Man, you came up with an absolutely wonderful idea! I'm impressed that nobody even thought about it until now! That would be any amigan's dream! And... what if... that's exactly the big surprise behind Samantha?!?
OK, OK... I'm coming back to reality...

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@m3x

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La fortuna è cieca. La sfiga ci vede benissimo.

@m3x

so one board with a 440@800 cpu and one of such fpga's would make a perfectly usable desktop system.I wonder if that fpga's can be reprogrammed on the fly for specific tasks.
need power? make an additional cpu out of it, need signal processing? fine too ;).

_________________
Cuida tus piedras gordas.

A1200/030 32Mb
A4000D
A1-X1000.

@ShowMan

Smooth transition from classics?

Where you around the last five years?

At first Amithlon came like a fresh breeze not emulating any
old chips and for some time already OS4 works on PPC hardware
without any custom chips.

@m3x

Quote:

For example, with a Virtex 4 FPGA you can implement a PPC cpu up to 450Mhz, and with a Virtex 5 you can implement a 550Mhz DSP

Is this clue #3?

Anyway, this Virtex-II Pro Pinout is the best I could find.
But... the inner free space between the pins looks a bit too narrow I suppose. *sigh*

@hatschi

No, no clue #3
We're just talking about FPGA performance

_________________
Massimiliano Tretene, ACube Systems, Soft3

@m3x

Quote:

No, no clue #3

What?!?
You mean we weren't allowed to post it?!?
Gosh, I got it the other way around!
Administrators! Make haste! Remove this thread ASAP, please!!!

saimo

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@m3x
Quote:

You're wrong For example, with a Virtex 4 FPGA you can implement a PPC cpu up to 450Mhz, and with a Virtex 5 you can implement a 550Mhz DSP

Sure, you (mean a designer) can implement every chip by FPGA, but to implement a CPU or DSP by FPGA isn't the better choice.

Usually you implement a DSP or CPU by FPGA way just for test functions or behaviour or new and chips, for testing; later you will produce the CPU or DSO or...chips by ASIC way.

Another way to use FPGA is for made a CPU or DSP..or...just for low volume of produciton, because ASIC is a very very expensive way.

I mean, a x86 CPU emulated by FPGA @2Ghz, could be a real 1Ghz x86 CPU, due to not slowly transient of transistors used in FPGA.

I'm not a designer (so I talk as not-expert people) I just tell what I know, but I could be wrong this is just my thought.

@sgm

Express a wish

_________________
retired

@ikir

More unpopulated PCBA....we're rocking now!

Last edited by JKD on 09-Sep-2006 at 07:55 PM.

@AmigaCori

What m3x meant is that some Xilinx Virtex FPGAs include some hardwired PowerPCs on the die in addition to the programmable logic.

As for FPGA speed, you won't currently find any faster than about 500 MHz, and even this speed is hard to achieve in practical designs and only feasible for simple logic functions. The reason is not poor quality (indeed some FPGAs are the most advanced silicon ICs available, more than the latest Pentiums), but configurability: they sacrifice speed for flexibility. This is not the case for the hardcore PowerPCs of Virtex FPGAs: they are not configurable, so they can be nearly as fast as single-chip implementations of the same CPU.

Just a question - would it be possible to build a low cost OS4 motherboard using just these sophisticated FPGAs - one for the cpu, one for the gpu, one for sound etc. A sort of 'reconfigurable computer', much like C-One is?

_________________
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." (Groucho Marx)

Quote:

GrumpyOldMan wrote: Just a question - would it be possible to build a low cost OS4 motherboard using just these sophisticated FPGAs - one for the cpu, one for the gpu, one for sound etc. A sort of 'reconfigurable computer', much like C-One is?

Hi GrumpyOldMan!


Hey look, it's OCS!
No, it's ECS!!
NO!, it's AGA!!!


Sorry guys, it's just Atari Pong.


Hehehe.

@hatschi

Quote:

But... the inner free space between the pins looks a bit too narrow I suppose.

Too narrow for what?

http://www.xilinx.com/bvdocs/appnotes/xapp157.pdf

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@gdg

Quote:

As for FPGA speed, you won't currently find any faster than about 500 MHz, and even this speed is hard to achieve in practical designs and only feasible for simple logic functions.

An FPGA uses a great deal of circuitry to make simple gates. It might take a couple hundred logic and memory cells together to make a 4-input AND gate for example. All this extra stuff determines if it's acting line an AND gate, or an OR gate, or an inverter, or whatever logic that block should be. Then you decide if there's a register on the output or not. This usually involves lookup tables to determinethe logic function. Then you have lots of big multiplexors to determine where those inputs come from, and where the output goes to. Probably some passgates (aka transmission gates) along the routing, which aren't great for timing but hard to avoid in something so generic. And of course the longer routing simply because what becomes an AND gate is 80 times larger than how much space just an AND gate alone would take up, so the routing is long.

Your explanation wasnt bad, but I thought I'd add some detail.

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@Ami603

Quote:

.I wonder if that fpga's can be reprogrammed on the fly for specific tasks.

Some can be. A good bit of planning should go into it, but it's possible. I'd envisioned an FPGA on a Zorro or PCI card at one time making a great hardware codec for multimedia stuff. Decode Divx in a machine with a 68040 or 020 or whatever with it without suffering horrible playback. Encode with it at reasonable speeds. Swap out divx for mp3 or ogg or mpeg2 or whatever. To bad I was too lazy to actually do anything about that.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!