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/  Forum Index
   /  Amiga OS4 Software
      /  I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
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Samwel 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:15:54
#101 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@hatschi

Quote:

So if there is a way to run software from other OS and have access to some additional applications, why the heck *not* use it? What's so *bad* about it anyway? If you could run Sputnik using MOSemu, you wouldn't touch it because you "don't see the need for it", rrright?


Again don't put words in other peoples mouths, please.

Why is everything YOU THINK always the right thing? Why do some of you ALWAYS think
you know best? About everything, from hardware, to software and even OS development???
Sometimes it's really funny to read but sometimes it's just irritating.

I don't think the difference between OS4 and MorphOS is that great. It should be quite easy
to port software to and from each platform.

I already answered the question you asked btw.

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Chip 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:16:00
#102 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@SlayeR__

Perfect point. If someone starts to code it, he will not going to be stopped.

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Samwel 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:20:49
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@SlayeR__

A basic one was made by sg2. It was never released. I guess it never will be.

No I don't think anyone is doing a MOSEmu at this time. Could be wrong though.

Well this is just like the x86 discussion really. Will not happen anytime soon.
But there's really nothing wrong about discussing it. As long as it's not repeated
over and over and over and over.. Well you get the point.

Last edited by Samwel on 27-Sep-2006 at 12:21 PM.

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Samwel 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:25:35
#104 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@Chip

How could you stop it? It would be like stopping the rain..

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hatschi 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:25:46
#105 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Chip

Quote:
Our OS isn't finished yet. The API is changing, it's damn early to think in games. First let the OS ready.


OS4 not ready? Sure, if there is an ongoing lack of OS4-licensed/running hardware or legal battles that prevent a release, it will never "be ready" since you could update it ad infinitum.

Quote:
28-12-06 Rogue: As you have probably already guessed, there will be no OS 4 release this year. There are reasons for that which I would like to explain
The main reason is the unavailability of hardware.


Quote:
And this sputnik mania (like the pixel32) also... Please let the author finish it first.


I was just using it as an example for MOS-software that could be anything but "useless" for OS4-users. But I guess you already knew that.

Last edited by hatschi on 27-Sep-2006 at 12:27 PM.

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Tomas 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:27:50
#106 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@hnl_dk


Quote:

hnl_dk wrote:
@Tuxedo

as I guess that it would not be totally legal... just like OS4emu...

In what way is OS4emu illegal? I dont see how it could be unless it uses source code from OS4 or other code only included in OS4.

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Chip 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:36:38
#107 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2005
Posts: 574
From: Budapest, Hungary

@hatschi

Quote:
OS4 not ready? Sure, if there is an ongoing lack of OS4-licensed/running hardware or legal battles that prevent a release, it will never "be ready" since you could update it ad infinitum.


Please!!! Don't bring other topics here. I was talking about the technical side of things.
Sorry, but I think this discussion leads nowhere.
I'm going back coding to make myself useful...

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Kaos 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:43:41
#108 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

@all

I don't understand the whining and silly arguements about OS4/MOS-emu.

* It's no emulator, no extra resources are used.
* It's not illegal and doesn't promote use of illegal software (OS4emu).

Just be happy that you could have the option to use MOS or OS4 software on your system if you chose to do so.

I myself have a Pegasos II and OS4emu runs fine, I don't use it myself but I wanted to see how well it works. I don't need it because I don't see the need for OS4 software on MOS but it's nice to have a choice.

Why would MOSemu be bad for OS4? It's not like OS4 coders suddenly wouldn't make native OS4 software anymore. OS4emu is a couple of years available and I didn't see MOS coders suddenly making OS4 software just because of OS4emu.

I also think that software like this would bring the 'blue' and 'red' camps closer together because we could profit from the software written for both OS's.

Just my two cents.

~kaos

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hatschi 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:45:17
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@Samwel

Quote:
Well this is just like the x86 discussion really. Will not happen anytime soon. But there's really nothing wrong about discussing it. As long as it's not repeated
over and over and over and over..


Going through this again and again possibly makes sense since there are still so many misconceptions about OS4emu/MOSemu ("illegal!!1", "emulates applications" "they want it because OS4 is so great!!!1" "it's only for taunting!!!1").

@Kaos

Very well put.

Last edited by hatschi on 27-Sep-2006 at 12:46 PM.

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jkirk 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:50:01
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3349
From: Georgia (usa)

@Tomas

Quote:

Tomas wrote:
@hnl_dk


Quote:

hnl_dk wrote:
@Tuxedo

as I guess that it would not be totally legal... just like OS4emu...

In what way is OS4emu illegal? I dont see how it could be unless it uses source code from OS4 or other code only included in OS4.


os4 emu is totally legal. the reason some claim it is illegal is that some apps may "require" or runs better with os4 libraries. thus they claim it supports piracy. now this might open the door to the possibilityof piracy but that also opens the door for legal uses. Example: commercial projects could allow support for mos by allowing them to license the os4 libraries and use os4 emu instead of wasting money developing for two different systems.

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itix 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 12:58:00
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Samwel

Quote:

Are you checking others code randomly or what? Or is this only for OS4 software?
This was pretty low!!!


I dont have to check anything because debug builds of OS4Emu have quite extensive debug support. Almost every function call prints an interface name and function name and parameters passed to the function. Tag calls can create tag dump

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itix 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 13:10:17
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Samwel

Quote:

A basic one was made by sg2. It was never released. I guess it never will be.

No I don't think anyone is doing a MOSEmu at this time. Could be wrong though.


It is not possible to create fully working MOSEmu. I know this MOSEmu from sg2 worked but there are few Exec calls which are very difficult to do. One of them is NewRawDoFmt(). Like its name suggests it is not difficult to reproduce in a wrapper but way it is called makes it very tricky. This function is SysV ABI call (means, not callable from 68k) and it is part of Exec jump table. It probably doesnt say much to you but those having knowledge to internals of MorphOS library calling mechanism should know why this call cant be emulated in MOSEmu...

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Kronos 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 14:18:40
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2230
From: Unknown

@Samwel

Quote:

Samwel wrote:
I don't think the difference between OS4 and MorphOS is that great. It should be quite easy
to port software to and from each platform.




The difference between OS4 and MorphOS is ~500Euro
The difference between MorphOS and OS4 is ~800Euro (assuming one could aczually buy one)

Thats quite a difference I would say ....

Crosscompilers are fine, but I would never user them without the ability to actually test the produced code. The tiny differences between MUI3.9 and MUI4 are allready annoying enough and I don't even want to know how many of these lie between 2 OSses that went seperate ways some 5 years ago.

Sure I could test it under OS4Emu, but then I would still be testing against the MorphOS-API, and might come up with an OS4-binary that only runs on OS4Emu .......

If on the other side someone would have problems running SteamDraw under MOSEmu I could just redirect the blame to the MOSEmu-author (and if he's able to provide me with an easy way of fixing the prob I would do so).

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AmiGame 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 14:20:28
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 3599
From: Peterborough, UK, Planet Earth (I think...)

@Kaos

Isn't it already Morphos for Classic Amiga ?
If it's the case, then it could certainly be run through e-uae, couldn't it ?

Jerry

_________________
- AOS has been ported to ex-86 ! It's called AROS and WinUAE... Or E-UAE on Linux !

- A1XE-G4 up and runing with:
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Zylesea 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 14:24:49
#115 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2222
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

@Chip

Lets take out the 68k emulator then, it just no effort to port all apps over to native OS4 according your logic.

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Kaos 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 14:33:28
#116 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

@AmiGame

Quote:

AmiGame wrote:
@Kaos

Isn't it already Morphos for Classic Amiga ?
If it's the case, then it could certainly be run through e-uae, couldn't it ?

Jerry


@Jerry

You mean running MorphOS for classics on E-UAE? That's not possible because UAE doesn't emulate PowerPC CPU's, just 68k.

~kaos

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AmiGame 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 15:02:34
#117 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 3599
From: Peterborough, UK, Planet Earth (I think...)

@Kaos

Quote:
You mean running MorphOS for classics on E-UAE?

Yep
Quote:
That's not possible because UAE doesn't emulate PowerPC CPU's, just 68k.

Wouldn't it be simpler to add PPC Support to E-UAE instead of MOSEmu ?



Atleast, there wouldn't be any discussions about legality as long as Morphos for classics is accepted as legal (I'm no lawyer)...

Jerry

_________________
- AOS has been ported to ex-86 ! It's called AROS and WinUAE... Or E-UAE on Linux !

- A1XE-G4 up and runing with:
512MB Ram / 200GB and 80GB HardDisks on Sii0680.
AOS4 Final Update / AmiZilla 0.1 Alpha

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Kaos 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 15:15:16
#118 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Jul-2005
Posts: 35
From: Unknown

Quote:

AmiGame wrote:
@Kaos

Quote:
You mean running MorphOS for classics on E-UAE?

Yep
Quote:
That's not possible because UAE doesn't emulate PowerPC CPU's, just 68k.

Wouldn't it be simpler to add PPC Support to E-UAE instead of MOSEmu ?



Atleast, there wouldn't be any discussions about legality as long as Morphos for classics is accepted as legal (I'm no lawyer)...

Jerry


@Jerry
Even if UAE was capable of running MorphOS it wouldn't be very usefull. I doubt the current hardware for OS4 or MOS is fast enough to run UAE with PowerPC support, it would crawl.

I'm no lawyer either :P but I think that if MOSemu would work the same way as OS4emu there are no legal problems. You don't need parts of OS4 to run OS4emu on MOS.

~kaos

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Zardoz 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 15:51:56
#119 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@AmiGame

Quote:
Wouldn't it be simpler to add PPC Support to E-UAE instead of MOSEmu ?


It wouldn't make any sense. An OS4 MOSEmu wouldn't emulate anything, it'd be just a wrapper, just like OS4Emu, wrapping MOS functions to OS4 ones and reimplementing a few libraries. It would run MorphOS applications at OS4-native speeds, just like OS4Emu runs OS4 applications at MorphOS-native speeds.

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Fransexy 
Re: I think we need MOS emu...And I will explain you why...
Posted on 27-Sep-2006 16:08:57
#120 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2004
Posts: 2334
From: Elche (Alicante), spain

@AmiGame

Quote:
Wouldn't it be simpler to add PPC Support to E-UAE instead of MOSEmu ?


Not would be more useful port qemu to OS4 or make from scratch a virtual machine program like VMware or parallel desktops for OS4 so we could run linux, MorphOS, AROSppc.......... inside OS4

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