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Rob 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 21:55:41
#41 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5738
From: S.Wales

@Hagbard_Celine

Quote:
Damn, I was so blind all the time.

Guys, Elbox? Maybe Elbox is producing Adams boards.

They are able to do that, plus you know their stand against Hyperion.




I think you're way off here. I find it highly unlikely that Elbox would produce hardware for someone else. They would rather create their own solution and maximise profits for themselves. Hence writing their own drivers and leaving it upto the user to register certain shareware programs.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by their stance against Hyperion. I have only ever seen comments from Rogue that stated they hadn't been contacted by Elbox with regard to OS4. That doesn't suggest that is any bad feeling between Hyperion and Elbox. I know Elbox dragged their feet a little over Warp3D, but that is over and past history.

There was speculation over why they would wait for the classic version and write drivers to make it work with the Shark, but if this were the case then they wouldn't give a stuff about Amiga either.

Personally I think if Elbox do intend to sell the SharkPPC now that the only real option is go the official route. I don't think it be cost effective to try and patch a 604 version to work with G3, G4 using their own software devs and then face a court battle with the IP holders.

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NomadOfNorad 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 21:57:45
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 2-Jun-2003
Posts: 746
From: Jacksonville, Florida, USA, Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

@DrBombcrater

Quote:

DrBombcrater wrote:
@Tomas

Quote:
Maybe it has something to do with cost and space savings? IDE is outdated and it would make sense to use SATA if one of them had to be dropped. There will most likely be plenty of cheap sata burners, flash adapters and such soon anyways.

Optical drives, yes. Not so sure about flash adaptors.

Dropping IDE support just seems like a strange design decision. SATA/IDE bridge chips are tiny and don't cost that much. Going SATA only wouldn't be so bad on a system that had lots of spare PCI slots, but on this design getting IDE capability means using 50% of your PCI slots or buying SATA/IDE adaptor cards, which are often of uneven reliability and can be hard to fit in small cases.


You know, they DO make IDE-to-SATA adaptors that plug directly into a PATA HDD, converting that drive into a SATA drive. I've seen them, they're the same size as the end of the HDD that they'd be attached onto. Dunno if those would be useful with IDE drives other than HDDs, though...

edit: typo

Last edited by NomadOfNorad on 03-May-2007 at 09:59 PM.

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peroxidechicken 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 21:59:45
#43 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2006
Posts: 178
From: Queensland, Australia

I've never seen so many happy little mushrooms - you know, those things that are kept in the dark and fed on ####.

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A3000T 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 22:44:12
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Nov-2003
Posts: 633
From: the Netherlands

> [09:14:16] ###ACKCONTROLS### Although I will say, it's faster than
> anything Apple ever produced on the PowerPC side of thiings.

I need to see that before I beleave it. Perhaps he ment to say "faster than the fastest single G4 system Apple produced". That sounds a little more credible.

Kind regards,

Dennis

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Akiko 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 22:59:28
#45 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 767
From: UK

@A3000T


Quote:
Perhaps he ment to say "faster than the fastest single G4 system Apple produced".


He also said " It might give Apple a reason to revisit the PowerPC side of things again" I doubt Apple would be impressed with a high end G4 system!
Personally I think Adam is on medication

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Mr-Z 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 23:00:02
#46 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 24-May-2005
Posts: 184
From: De Keistad, Netherlands

cannot see how they are going to produce something faster then a multicore PPC apple, then we have second problem, and that is actually having multicore support not being present within os4 now.

maybe ack means os4 is running much faster on the same hardware then macOS does.

i'll just wait 'when it's done'

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Zylesea 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 23:22:42
#47 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 16-Mar-2004
Posts: 2091
From: Ostwestfalen, FRG

I am quite sure Adam thinks of a Cell or PWRficient. With those chips he is able to claim it's faster than anything apple build, because it will not be too easy to compare.
The other part of the story is that I don't believe *he's* able to design and deliver such.
He wasn't in past - why should he be now?

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fairlanefastback 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 23:25:55
#48 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@all

Ok so Bill says OS 5 will be better than Mac OS 10.

Now ACK is talking about new Amiga hardware being faster than any PowerPC hardware Apple ever produced as I understand it.

Make me wonder, do these guys drink together you think laughing it up reading our crazy disections of their words?

I sure hope its just "maybe ack means os4 is running much faster on the same hardware then macOS does." as Mr-Z said!


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estik 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 23:29:44
#49 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2004
Posts: 587
From: Pacos de Ferreira, Portugal

@fairlanefastback

Since i own a mac dual processor G5, with mac os X Tiger, i would pay to see that, but,
I agree with you.
There must be something on their drinks

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minator 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 23:42:11
#50 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2004
Posts: 989
From: Cambridge

I'm guessing he wasn't referring to the Quad G5 or maybe just forgot them?
On the other hand he may be referring to "system speed" rather than raw CPU benchmarks.

Anyway what this means it's got a high end PPC processor, there's a choice of 4 he could use:

Freescale 8641D
PA-Semi
IBM 970
Cell

The 970 would be expensive and probably require a very expensive board. However the northbridge can't be used on desktop machines (It's probably part owned by Apple).

I'm not sure the 8641D is shipping yet but it's basically a pair of G4 cores in a new package, the memory system is a lot better so it'll be a lot faster than the G4 but I don't think it'll have the clock to beat a high end G5, that said the G5's memory latency sucked and the 8641D has dual built in memory controllers, It should be a pretty potent processor.

I think PA-Semi is a better candidate than the 8641D. It's the same idea, 2 cores, a load of built in I/O ports and a pair of (faster) memory controllers. The CPU cores are G5-like and the I/O is better (hello PCIe), it also has all sorts of custom accelerators built in. If there's anything which will give the G5 a run for it's money this will be it. It might not beat a high clocked G5 on all benchmarks but on the majority it should do better. It's also very low power, it uses less than Intel's laptop chips.

The other alternative is Cell, I find this rather unlikely though as doing a motherboard for this will cost a *lot* of money. It is however the only processor guaranteed to beat a quad G5...


I guess it'll be a toss up between the PA-Semi chip and the Freescale part. No idea on prices but in a system like this I'd be inclined to go for the PA-Semi. It may not beat a top end x86 on CPU benchmarks but on *system* benchmarks and power consumption it's probably the best chip on the market today.

That said even if it is the PA-Semi there's different versions...

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Tomas 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 3-May-2007 23:55:13
#51 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown


The solution for those who want to use their ide devices.

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Legion 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 0:12:20
#52 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Apr-2003
Posts: 820
From: Fargo, ND, USA

@Mr-Z

HEY!!!

Thats MY avatar




@AMiGR

I like Judas Priest. I really liked Painkiller. I LOVED Fight. I saw Halford live during the Resurrection tour with Iron Maiden in St. Paul, Minnesota =)

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Legion 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 0:19:20
#53 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Apr-2003
Posts: 820
From: Fargo, ND, USA

@A3000T

I'm sure that is what he means. AFAIK the fastest G4 Apple used was the 1.5ghz G4. A 1.7ghz chip with a fast memory controller would definitely fit the "screamer" comment in context here.


A quad G5 board would be something though. Regardless, I will be buying the budget system unless an up-to-date web browser magically appears before the release date...

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gregthecanuck 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 0:21:41
#54 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 827
From: Vancouver, Canada

@all

In order to build a faster PPC motherboard the obvious route is to go with PA Semi.

There is more to 'fastest' than just the CPU. Don't forget memory and I/O bandwidth.

PA Semi is already shipping evaluation motherboards. In other words, there is an existing design out there to start from. If you check the web site the design is actually fairly close to what one would expect from a high-end motherboard.

The icing on the cake is PA Semi has designed their systems for use with 'scalable sockets'. This means the processors can be upgraded fairly easily within certain ranges. You can start with a single or dual-core chip and replace it with a 4 or 8 core chip as the chips become available. This is the area where I would expect to see a PA-Semi based system start to outperform the PowerMacs.



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Derfs 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 0:29:53
#55 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 772
From: me To: you

@Akiko

Quote:

Akiko wrote:

He also said " It might give Apple a reason to revisit the PowerPC side of things again" I doubt Apple would be impressed with a high end G4 system!
Personally I think Adam is on medication


next time include the smilie from the log. he was obviously joking about apple even thinking about going back to ppc.

the quote is
Quote:

09:14:16] ###ACKCONTROLS### Although I will say, it's faster than anything Apple ever produced on the PowerPC side of thiings.

[09:16:18] ###ACKCONTROLS### She's a screamer.

[09:17:59] ###ACKCONTROLS### It might give Apple a reason to revist the PowerPC side of things again ;)

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Derfs 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 0:44:44
#56 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 772
From: me To: you

@Fransexy

Quote:

Fransexy wrote:
The faster ppc machine apple produced was quad G5 2,5 GHZ


Two dual-core 2.5GHz PowerPC G5's.

as a guide the xbox360 has Three dual-core 3.2GHz PowerPC processors, which are not G5's but are at least as good.

there are plenty of those being made, heh.

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Zardoz 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 0:56:43
#57 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@Derfs

Quote:
as a guide the xbox360 has Three dual-core 3.2GHz PowerPC processors, which are not G5's but are at least as good.


Not even close, the Xenon CPU is an in-order architecture. The performance at 3.2GHz is about that of a 970 (G5) at 1.5GHz.

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Zardoz 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 1:00:22
#58 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@Legion

Quote:
I like Judas Priest. I really liked Painkiller. I LOVED Fight. I saw Halford live during the Resurrection tour with Iron Maiden in St. Paul, Minnesota =)


I love Judas Priest, I love Painkiller, I liked Fight and I *loved* Halford's Crucible. Sadly, I've only watched Halford with Priest after the reunion, twice... now that he's destroyed his voice... :-/

Anyway, here's a cover of Paikiller, by me.

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Akiko 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 1:11:16
#59 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 767
From: UK

@Derfs


Quote:
next time include the smilie from the log.


Sorry my bad, point was he seems to sugest is something better than G4.
could be joking about that too well wait and see

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Amiga 1200, Blizzard IV
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wegster 
Re: IRC session with ACK....
Posted on 4-May-2007 1:26:00
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@terminator3

Quote:

terminator3 wrote:
@billt

funny we posted about laptop within minutes... good to see that there's a definite market for laptop. I'd say scratch off those low-level designs and replace it with laptop.


Except for the price of the low end system, you probably couldn't even get a laptop _board_ made..a 'real' laptop in low numbers just isn't too likely, let alone to replace a 'low-end' system, IMHO.

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Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

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