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shackleton 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 29-Jun-2007 12:38:02
#421 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Apr-2007
Posts: 33
From: Sweden

@hatschi

That's sad, but I can't say that I'm surprised you didn't get any answer from AInc...

My point was still, we can speculate how much we like, but it's not going to help anyway. If an official request for information isn't answered, then fine, then we know that AInc isn't interested in selling or supporting the Amiga-interested community or they dont care about potential customers.

And if an official request isn't answered, which probably would be the case, then we could either:
1) Forget about new hw and buy another system
2) Wait a littler longer if we're patient enough for something that may very vell happen

That is our choices.

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NoelFuller 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 29-Jun-2007 13:57:16
#422 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@jtsiren

Just waiting for the race start

Quote:
So... what do we ask of Amiga Inc. then?


You earnrstly and in all innocent attempt to place an order. That creates a response. Whatever the response or even none, that creates evidence. It's not silly to do even knowing that the effort will fail. I've initiated battles knowing I would lose just to create evidence.

Race is in the start box

Noel

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jtsiren 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 29-Jun-2007 16:53:02
#423 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2003
Posts: 742
From: Unknown

@NoelFuller

Quote:
You earnrstly and in all innocent attempt to place an order.


I now do understand what you mean by a test so the long thread has not been in vain, but especially after lengthy discussion in public about this I wouldn't feel right about trying to pull something like that with Amiga Inc. So won't be me, sorry. I wouldn't feel sincere doing that, since the hardware hasn't been announced for order yet and I'd be just trying to get information from them under somewhat false pretenses. I *will* order the machine when they are available for order via public channels, if they start shipping in time of course (that's my small carrot) - that I feel sincere about, because it is a real, valid promise that I've made and I intend to keep it.

This is especially important since my promise is pretty much for me to buy one if they on their own ship in time. If I contact them - even push to some extent - separately, that would kind of invalidate my point of rewarding them (in my small way) for finally doing what they announce - on their own, in time, without our help or interference, simply as announced - like any normal company would. I'm sure they have friends reading these forums too and anything important gets filtered back to them anyway, so no need for me to push them separately. I've done enough of volunteer-helping Amiga companies in my past...

I might have a somewhat different perception if Amiga Inc. had a long history of answering emails promptly and with good, solid fact-filled information but as is it would seem nothing more than, as you say, testing them.

I guess this topic is pretty much exhausted unless ACK or Amiga Inc. comes out with something new information or product wise. Until then I'm waiting for the $489 board!

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Drathro 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 29-Jun-2007 23:24:30
#424 ]
Member
Joined: 20-May-2007
Posts: 38
From: Newcastle, England

http://www.amiga.com/about/contact/?contact_department=techlicensing



Last edited by Drathro on 29-Jun-2007 at 11:34 PM.

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NoelFuller 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 30-Jun-2007 10:56:13
#425 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@koan

Quote:
The more I read your posts, the more I feel that your objective is to provide excuses for Ack.


I long ago adopted a policy of seeking to identify the best in a person rather than sit in judgement and seeking self-justification by assuming the worst. I entered this thread because that is just what was going on. I looked to see what Ack was up to, how it progressed, what delayed him, where things are at. I've been keeping this watch for a long time and perhaps have to hand more information than some here. What I see is a largely one man show persisting towards his stated objectives despite an awsome array of obstacles. The delays are quite explicable to me and I know of no grounds for the condemnation he has been getting here yet people fixed in these attitudes are unable to recognise the real sequence of events or any hint or fact that challenges the attitude. Ack's only real mistake has been over optimism. The only quarrel some have is that he does not take notice of demands made that he prove publically hes a good guy. Maybe he has learnt how futile this is and how merciless the public is.

Quote:
We are the customer, he is the supplier; or so we are to believe. It's very strange for a supplier to not want to get his customers interested in his products, don't you think ?


No one here is a customer yet. I also wonder how many businesses keep us informed of every twist and turn of fortune in trying to bring a product to market? Not many I believe. Ack, on irc has kept us rather well informed compared to most businesses. Perhaps that is a facet of the one man part time operation too.

Quote:

A few photos would tell a lot. Many people would be able to get behind Ack if they could see that these things really exist and that the work is really happening. I totally fail to understand why, if they are bona fide, Ack has decided not to back up any of the claims he has ever made here.


I agree a few photos would tell a lot. We will see them when he considers he has the products are ready for the market.

Quote:

Are you suggesting the slimmest of chances that, after all, maybe it's quite a lot of work for one man and that he may not be up to it ?


Every personal dislocation, every technical obstacle, every money shortfall, just the need to earn a living at something else, all simply stretch the time to realisation of everything. Larger outfits have have much better chances of getting there in a timely manner unless they are Microsoft.

Quote:

I bet Ack's machines run a good deal faster than mine does!

On what evidence do you make that assertion ?


Awareness that he has developed and prototyped much faster CPU cards. Where else would they be but in his machines?

Quote:

With bugs to chase in a CPU card the PV LT again became the priority.

I thought the excuse was "difficult to get hold of hardware and high prices" ?
EFIKA is similar spec, available and cheap.


The high end CPU card was going slower than it should. All issues with these cards have long since been dealt with. Margins are too slim to borrow so Ack is saving up the money for a production run. PV LT was also done some time back but see next...

Quote:
but given the dispute long in progress, would Hyperion have been prepared to issue him with OS4?

I'm confused now: PV was not finished because of OS4 licencing issues. Surely after being burned on this project Ack would have been doubly careful and got some cast iron agreement before starting work on the new hardware ?


He did not expect licencing issues with the PVLT A1200 version but OS4 availability was denied. PVLT may be offered with an emulator to run 68k code if OS4 does not become available soon but emulators are tricky things.

Quote:

Ack wants his machines to speak for themselves

If he said this then where ? IRC ?


He did. I should add for fairlanefastback (I've just been sent a picture of your nice looking car) linux does not seem to count among wouldbe OS4 users.

PVTL is on hold for a very good technical reason quite outside Ack's control. About the new boards Ack provides no details of the kind he has provided for his own projects.

Quote:

Group attention focussed negatively on a person can be devastating to health and well being, even fatal.

Are you saying Ack lives his life in this forum ?


Certainly Not. The way I see the world is rather different to most and it seems unlikely I can explain this statement if you do not recognise its meaning. I could illustrate with firsthand stories of course but most here would be unable to credit them even though in two cases the associated deaths were real enough and one highly publicised.

Quote:
I don't wish the man any ill, but difficult questions are the norm here, especially when you make several bold claims with nothing to back you up.


No one has a problem with difficult questions.

I have not chosen to publish the actual irc logs but Sundown was there for the most recent session and perhaps if he reads this he will confirm the factual material above. Helgis has started a similar thread. Sundown has already remarked re the CPU cards.

Noel

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NoelFuller 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 30-Jun-2007 10:57:29
#426 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

Bump

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hatschi 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 30-Jun-2007 11:11:30
#427 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@NoelFuller

Quote:
PVLT may be offered with an emulator to run 68k code if OS4 does not become available soon but emulators are tricky things.


Well, then I really wonder why nobody has ever ported VICE to the SuperCPU in order to emulate a C64 on a C64.

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NoelFuller 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 30-Jun-2007 12:05:00
#428 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@hatschi

LOL

Noel

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fairlanefastback 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 30-Jun-2007 12:54:47
#429 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@NoelFuller

Quote:
The only quarrel some have is that he does not take notice of demands made that he prove publically hes a good guy.


Thats not so. And one only need to read this thread to know that. And regardless people are trying to help ACK's reputation here and should it be in a position where it had to admit that it had nothing to show I'd be the first one to say, "ok, now we know, lets let it go and not bash the firm, whats done is done".

Quote:

No one here is a customer yet. I also wonder how many businesses keep us informed of every twist and turn of fortune in trying to bring a product to market?


So a company should only treat the potential customers it solicits and seeks out to drum up interest with of its own accord, it should only treat them properly after it has taken money from them with a transaction complete?

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

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jtsiren 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 30-Jun-2007 16:12:26
#430 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2003
Posts: 742
From: Unknown

@NoelFuller

Just two clarifications. I have no intention of trying to make you change your mind any more.

Quote:
Ack's only real mistake has been over optimism.

Clarification: In my opinion, and I guess others' too, ACK's mistake has been making announcements he very likely should have known he can not keep (this is more than over-optimism, it is misleading people). In my opinion over-optimism also doesn't explain statements like PowerVixxen is in production, that may even have been an all-out a lie - a possibility that no one seems to have been able to dispute without resorting to intellectually dishonest Clintonesque word-games.

Quote:
The only quarrel some have is that he does not take notice of demands made that he prove publically hes a good guy.

Clarification: I, and again I guess others too, have a quarrel with him about continuing to announce things he couldn't possible be able to deliver in time (and hasn't) time and time again, as well as not after this fact at least providing information (e.g. pics) showing his technical progress - nothing to do with him being a good guy or not as you attempt to claim, just that he'd be more accountable for his own actions and announcements like any company or adult in life usually has to be.

Just trying to clarify that some of us have more beef with ACK than according to your summary. You disagree, we know, but just clarified so that nobody gets wrong the criticism.

We're still hoping despite of all this the Amiga Inc./ACK boards arrive in time. Would be nice for something like to still happen after all this, but in addition to that ACK could well improve their own standing by changing the way they communicate (no more announcements they know or should know they have a high risk of not being able to keep as well as more forwardness and openness about problems when they arrive with public information postings).

Last edited by jtsiren on 30-Jun-2007 at 04:19 PM.

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koan 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 6:47:30
#431 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 5-Dec-2003
Posts: 126
From: Kyoto, Japan

@NoelFuller

You have adopted a policy such that you have an excuse for all of Ack's actions, even when they are the least plausible explanation or illogical.

You claim to have more information than "some of the people here", but you yourself only have Ack's word. If you have real evidence then share it. A strong belief is not enough.

Please can you stop these thinly veiled holier than thou attacks, as if we are not worthy. Apart from a few zealots, everyone here is seeking the truth, if you can't recognise that then it's your own problem you should deal with outside this forum.

Quote:
Ack's only real mistake has been over optimism.


How about making bold claims without any evidence to back them up ?

How about losing his cool on IRC and this forum in an unprofessional manner ?

Quote:
The only quarrel some have is that he does not take notice of demands made that he prove publically hes a good guy. Maybe he has learnt how futile this is and how merciless the public is.


How can he have learnt it is futile when he has never supplied any evidence ? No one is making demands, in fact most people have not even directly addressed Ack. He was reading this thread at one point, he would have seen many words to the effect of "if he wants us to believe anything he says then let's see some proof about what he claims to have done already".

Quote:

Quote:
>> I bet Ack's machines run a good deal faster than mine does!
> On what evidence do you make that assertion ?

Awareness that he has developed and prototyped much faster CPU cards.


"Awareness" ? You have seen these CPU cards ? Or you simply have Ack's word ? This is blind faith again.

I don't really care about the IRC logs, I doubt there is anything to be gained from them. However, why not publish them anyway ? Why are they super secret ?

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NoelFuller 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 10:49:17
#432 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@koan

Quote:
You have adopted a policy such that you have an excuse for all of Ack's actions, even when they are the least plausible explanation or illogical.


Really?

Quote:
"Awareness" ? You have seen these CPU cards ? Or you simply have Ack's word ? This is blind faith again.


When your word in explanation of your circumstances is all I've got, and reasonably consistent with such knowledge of governing circumstances, and the difficulties of life I may have, even if there are gaps, I will give you the benefit of any doubt, accept what you say, act on it if that is called for, and/or wait and see. Would you rather I adopt another approach? Its not quite the same as blind faith as you call it.

We shall see if the information I passed on in my reply to you concerning Ack's projects is correct or not soon enough I suspect, and if not, too bad for me. I am quite detached about that.

On explanations re Ack I really now have nothing more to say whether of information or argument. I regret ever saying anything.

Noel

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Ivan 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 11:12:47
#433 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Jul-2003
Posts: 302
From: Unknown

Sorry for the slow reply guys. I don't scan the forums much anymore.

@hatschi

Quote:
So you still didn't get back your board from him? Didn't he say on 16 April that he was going to ship it back? Have you heard anything from him since that date?


Yup he did say that back on april 16. I STILL haven't heard anything from him.


@fairlanefastback

Quote:
I know spending any more time on this for you would be a pain, but can you give us a timeline of your dealings with him? We can use this thread to reference back to in the future, sort of a history of the community's dealings & reference guide in essence. This is important info to compile IMHO.


I don't know if i should post other names or not. But well, Kneedeep was one who PM'd me (still have that pm) that he is also waiting for a board to be returned to him.

I'll give you the short version.

July 2006, my XE dies. Uboot shows up but thats all.

End of July (a couple days later) i pm Adam of ACK and ask him if he can fix it. He says send it to me. And i mail it off to him.

I pm him every couple weeks up til middle of october and he replys with alot of excuses. 'my father died', 'havent had time', but he does say he's looked at it by october and says he's worked on it. He says he'll send it back, gives me a list of costs and says he will ship it back. I sent him the money and havent heard from him since. Until i posted publicly in April just a few weeks ago. Then he pm'd me, said he was boxing it up to send to me, and hasen't.

If the moderators/site admins want to check my PM's they can. It's all in there for them to verify (dont delete any of my messages thanks).


@Moxee

Don't tell me not to throw insults when i haven't. Every thing i've said so far is the truth. Maybe you don't like someone talking bad about a guy who was going to bring you new hardware. Well, i don't like sending out hardware for repairs and never getting it back.

I was maintaining Daimonin (fun game) for os4 when this happened and was almost finished getting fuhquake compiled too (played it for months on the amiga, but im lazy and never finished up once i had it all working). There are alot of freeware games out there i could have ported by now. Thank Adam for killing those projects, not me.

_________________
Q: How do you make an Amiga run?
A: Threaten to put in a Windows CD.

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jtsiren 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 14:42:17
#434 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Apr-2003
Posts: 742
From: Unknown

@Ivan

Quote:
I pm him every couple weeks up til middle of october and he replys with alot of excuses. 'my father died', 'havent had time', but he does say he's looked at it by october and says he's worked on it. He says he'll send it back, gives me a list of costs and says he will ship it back. I sent him the money and havent heard from him since. Until i posted publicly in April just a few weeks ago. Then he pm'd me, said he was boxing it up to send to me, and hasen't.


Oh crap, I guess I didn't know everything about ACK. Sickening stuff, if true...

NoelFuller - would that constitute as a valid test, test performed and failed? What does it take for you to believe in more than over-optimism?

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jorkany 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 14:58:49
#435 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-May-2005
Posts: 919
From: Space Coast

@NoelFuller
Quote:
I regret ever saying anything.

You and me both.

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hatschi 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 15:05:41
#436 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 1-Dec-2005
Posts: 2328
From: Good old Europe.

@jtsiren

Quote:
Oh crap, I guess I didn't know everything about ACK. Sickening stuff, if true...


I see no reason to doubt that anything that Ivan reported isn't true, especially because it goes in line with ACK's earlier uhm... "performance".
Now I also wonder how/if the situation with Jens Schoenfeld resolved itself.
On IRC in May Jens declared that

"The issue with Jens will be addressed this month."

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Moxee 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 17:00:52
#437 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

@Ivan

Quote:

I'll give you the short version.

July 2006, my XE dies. Uboot shows up but thats all.

End of July (a couple days later) i pm Adam of ACK and ask him if he can fix it. He says send it to me. And i mail it off to him.

I pm him every couple weeks up til middle of october and he replys with alot of excuses. 'my father died', 'havent had time', but he does say he's looked at it by october and says he's worked on it. He says he'll send it back, gives me a list of costs and says he will ship it back. I sent him the money and havent heard from him since. Until i posted publicly in April just a few weeks ago. Then he pm'd me, said he was boxing it up to send to me, and hasen't.


Now why didn't you explain it like this in your previous post? Your feelings are very understandable and certainly has me just as annoyed as you.

Quote:

If the moderators/site admins want to check my PM's they can. It's all in there for them to verify (dont delete any of my messages thanks).


There is no need to. Your word is good for me.

Quote:

@Moxee

Don't tell me not to throw insults when i haven't. Every thing i've said so far is the truth.


I believe your story, but you did some name calling in your post. As a member of the AW staff I must point this out if I come across it. Just state your facts as you did above and others will know what is happening.

Quote:

Maybe you don't like someone talking bad about a guy who was going to bring you new hardware. Well, i don't like sending out hardware for repairs and never getting it back.


I am with you man. I am not your enemy. We just have to keep it civil on here. I too would be angry as hell if my A1 XE board appeared to be sent off into a black hole.

Quote:

I was maintaining Daimonin (fun game) for os4 when this happened and was almost finished getting fuhquake compiled too (played it for months on the amiga, but im lazy and never finished up once i had it all working). There are alot of freeware games out there i could have ported by now. Thank Adam for killing those projects, not me.


Yes, this whole situation could have been avoided with more involvement from ACK. I am sure you are a reasonable man and would have understood if you had been receiving frequent email updates about your XE board. Keeping your customers informed is to keep your customers.

_________________
Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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ChrisH 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 22:48:45
#438 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@fairlanefastback who said Quote:
And yet let me ask you, if ACK produced pics now could you move on in support of him with far less doubt? I could and I think many others would as well. In essence we are extending an olive branch with the smallest of conditions, something that costs ACK nothing to do and that he previously agreed to. This thread is even producing promises of machine purchases regardless of if any proof in the meantime is ever given. What more can we do then start guarantying him sales in this thread, unconditionally? Why will he not work with us to settle this doubt that we have through no fault of our own?

Well, since you asked me directly: I have already stated that a couple of high-resolution pictures of one of his projects (not necessarily working fully or ever being released) would likely convince me that he at least has the technical knowledge to put something together (*).

Ideally he'd also give some *brief* explanation of why his past project(s) were abandoned, or otherwise mothballed. Even if it was "I couldn't get XX to work reliably", or "I ran out of money". I think that would be sufficient for me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

As for buying a machine: I don't care who produces a mobo to run OS4. If ACK is the first one to do so, and early reviews don't reveal any problems (like those seen on the A1), then I'll be buying one. At least if it's not insanely expensive for a basic system.

(* as long as it doesn't turn out to be a modification of another pre-existing design from someone else)

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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ChrisH 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 23:09:35
#439 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@NoelFuller who said Quote:
I long ago adopted a policy of seeking to identify the best in a person rather than sit in judgement and seeking self-justification by assuming the worst.

Believe it or not, I subscribe to a similar philosophy: If there there are alternative explanations, then I choose bad luck over incompetence, and incompetence over malice. (I have stated this before in other threads, such as when analysing Amiga Inc's motives)

HOWEVER, I place limits on my credulity - if someone repeatedly fails in the same manner, then assuming incompetence or bad luck is no-longer reasonable. You could summarise that as: Once is an accident, Twice is incompetance, Thrice is malice.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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NoelFuller 
Re: ACK developer boards, we are near the one month late time period
Posted on 1-Jul-2007 23:15:41
#440 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2003
Posts: 926
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@jtsiren

Quote:
NoelFuller - would that constitute as a valid test, test performed and failed? What does it take for you to believe in more than over-optimism?


Its a different matter and should not happen but does. As a test it demonstrates that good business management is at the mercy of changing personal priorities. Not good - see below.

I've asked a repair man about this issue in the distant past as I once took on electronic repair and then got out again, It goes like this: Most repairs can be diagnosed and done inside 15 minutes. (profit) Some take hours (loss), some one just can't find the problem so it gets put aside while other more pressing things are done. Customer enquires, drag it out again, still no joy. At this point if not before, one should fess up and ask customer what they want done with the item.

After several such experiences myself I decided to get out but sometimes something gets put on the back burner and then forgotten. A reminder arrives but guilt and the aversion to doing something embarrasing blankets action even quicker and so it goes on. It just should not happen.

Most outfits I would say are well aware of this liability and their management process prevents it. TV outfits simply replace the offending board and send the damaged one to some central facillity that can better make the repair or dump it. Customer is satisfied. If confronted now with oddities from the past like a 1084 they just tell you politely to get lost. Our club stockpiled a number of those transformers that are always failing on 1084s so members could with the help of one repair agency, keep things going a while longer.

Heck I tried literally for decades to get a prized book back from a certain couple. Each time I rang they said it was wrapped, addressed and waiting by the phone to be posted. It would be posted tomorrow. It never happened and I doubt they are alive now. Sigh.

Noel

Last edited by NoelFuller on 01-Jul-2007 at 11:47 PM.

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