@Rob

Yes some thing like: "Sam440 available fall/winter 2007 running Linux”.

We really need this legal problems cleaned up quickly.

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Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@mike

Quote:

How many Amgia One motherboards does he still have? http://amigaweb.net/index.php?function=view_news&id=757

I liked this bit:

"So maybe It's not that odd that [ACK] should fail to arrive, seeing that a now angry mob of Amigans would stand ready to strip him of all his values should he show."

Hahaha...

_________________

@mike

Quote:

How many Amgia One motherboards does he still have?

One too many as far as I am concerned.

@Kneedeep

You are going to do what you think is best but I'll paste the link again so you have it handy in case you feel its worthwhile at this point.

https://www.recol.ca/intro.aspx

Best of luck in the end.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 18-Sep-2007 at 08:27 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@mike
ACK is only holding Kneedeep's board as far as we know - although he has tried to obtain at least one more mobo "for repair" relatively recently...

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @mike ACK is only holding Kneedeep's board as far as we know - although he has tried to obtain at least one more mobo "for repair" relatively recently...

To be fair, I think that the guy who owned the motherboard had been begging him to repair it for a while and Adam was only responding to his public request. That's not the same as soliciting for more boards.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @ChrisH To be fair, I think that the guy who owned the motherboard had been begging him to repair it for a while and Adam was only responding to his public request. That's not the same as soliciting for more boards.

"Begging" I think is a bit strong based on what we saw in the thread from that user. Regardless though IMHO ACK in its response showed it was still open for repair business and to take in boards. Some (including myself) would think of that being a very audacious position for them to take given the treatment of withholding property for so long from other customers it had. It has returned some property since after public pressure and it seems kept other property unfortunately still. Caveat Emptor IMHO.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Hans Quote: Hans wrote: @ChrisH To be fair, I think that the guy who owned the motherboard had been begging him to repair it for a while and Adam was only responding to his public request. That's not the same as soliciting for more boards. "Begging" I think is a bit strong based on what we saw in the thread from that user. Regardless though IMHO ACK in its response showed it was still open for repair business and to take in boards. Some (including myself) would think of that being a very audacious position for them to take given the treatment of withholding property for so long from other customers it had. It has returned some property since after public pressure and it seems kept other property unfortunately still. Caveat Emptor IMHO.

This guy wasn't going to mail him the board; he wanted to drive to Adam's place, have Adam fix it on the spot, and then take it home again. Adam made it clear that he didn't know if he had the time for it, but would do it if he could. Making it sound like he's out there soliciting for work he doesn't have time for is twisting the facts. Soliciting means going out and asking people, not responding to people's requests. Worse, some people seem to think that he's out there to con people.

I am disappointed that Kneedeep still doesn't have his machine back; I think that this demonstrates very poor business and customer service skills on the part of ACK; however, I don't agree with painting Adam as a villain, out to steal boards from unsuspecting customers (who shouldn't be unsuspecting after reading this thread).

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @fairlanefastback This guy wasn't going to mail him the board; he wanted to drive to Adam's place, have Adam fix it on the spot, and then take it home again. Adam made it clear that he didn't know if he had the time for it, but would do it if he could. Making it sound like he's out there soliciting for work he doesn't have time for is twisting the facts. Soliciting means going out and asking people, not responding to people's requests. Worse, some people seem to think that he's out there to con people. I am disappointed that Kneedeep still doesn't have his machine back; I think that this demonstrates very poor business and customer service skills on the part of ACK; however, I don't agree with painting Adam as a villain, out to steal boards from unsuspecting customers (who shouldn't be unsuspecting after reading this thread).

I said he seemed to be showing his firm was still open for business in that regard after your characterization which you were offering as a counterpoint to ChrisH. I view it probably as somewhat in between how you and Chris see it. And that I didn't agree with you that Terminator3 was "begging" as you put it.

In regard to the notion of "stealing boards" . Part of the issue here is that intention, while definately important is not the whole story when it comes to characterizing wrong-doing. When you withold property for years, make intermittant promises that keep the actual owner somewhat at bay, etc, the bottom line of what is going on as time goes on comes down over time to simpler facts. Basically that you are keeping property without permission that does not belong to you. From a legal aspect I would suspect this is not proper, from a moral aspect its certianly not proper at all. I think in some ways getting into a debate of labels or if there are labels to use etc just detract from the primary issue here. And that is what ACK is doing to Kneedeep is wrong.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 19-Sep-2007 at 05:37 PM.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Hans
I wasn't trying to paint ACK as the villian in my last post (I don't need to!), I was just trying to point out that ACK is apparently still willing to accept boards for repair, so even if Kneedeep's board get's returned, that does not necessarily mean that ACK is not holding any other boards for repair. Which was my way of trying to accurately answer the person asking how many boards ACK was holding for repair. Just saying "one" might have been misleading.

P.S. ACK wanted the guy to leave the board with him, but the guy wisely did not want to do that, so despite lots of emails they had not been able to come to an agreement on how to repair the board. Draw what conclusions you want from that. Personally I think he should send the board to ACube instead.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: I said he seemed to be showing his firm was still open for business in that regard after your characterization which you were offering as a counterpoint to ChrisH. I view it probably as somewhat in between how you and Chris see it. And that I didn't agree with you that Terminator3 was "begging" as you put it.

Please look up the word Hyperbole regarding the "begging" thing. I used it as a compact way to describe the fact that Terminator3 had been in contact with Adam regarding fixing his machine for quite some time, and still wanted him to get round to fixing it, despite all the troubles.

Quote:

...... And that is what ACK is doing to Kneedeep is wrong.

This is irrelevant to what I originally said. Kneedeep should have received his board back a long time ago (and is free to persue legal action, if he chooses). That still doesn't mean that ACK is soliciting for boards. I think that agreeing to fix any more boards when he doesn't have any time for it, is a bad idea. However, I wouldn't call it an advertisement that he's "open for business".

I just get the feeling that everything ACK does is getting portrayed with the worst possible motives in mind. That doesn't mean that I think his behaviour is acceptable; I just don't like the villain portrayal. This thread has come dangerously close to being an online lynching mob once or twice already; that's not helpful at all.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @Hans I wasn't trying to paint ACK as the villian in my last post (I don't need to!),

My intention was to give a clearer picture (IMHO) around Terminator3 asking him to fix his board. Then fairlanefastback responded with a post focusing on how "audacious" ACK's treatment of others has been. My villain comment is more a general feel of this thread. It's almost impossible to post a vaguely neutral comment about ACK without someone else telling you that you just don't seem to get how bad ACK really is.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Quote:

Please look up the word Hyperbole regarding the "begging" thing. I used it as a compact way to describe the fact that Terminator3 had been in contact with Adam regarding fixing his machine for quite some time, and still wanted him to get round to fixing it, despite all the troubles.

Thats nice. I still don't agree with the characterization using that term. To each his own. :)

Quote:

However, I wouldn't call it an advertisement that he's "open for business".

The firm did not take it to PM. This was an open discussion it had in showing a willingness to obtain new repair work. I think given that, its joint press release with Amiga about new machines, talk on IRC, things like talking about the "can do" North American attitude, short replies to some critics about how they will have to eat their words, etc. I think ACK is definately taking a position that they are up and running to do business.

Quote:

I just get the feeling that everything ACK does is getting portrayed with the worst possible motives in mind. That doesn't mean that I think his behaviour is acceptable; I just don't like the villain portrayal. This thread has come dangerously close to being an online lynching mob once or twice already; that's not helpful at all.

While his motives may be of interest to a student of psychology I'm more concerned about actual actions (or the lack thereof). I never gave him the "villian portrayal", even after he went off on me. I 've had encouraging words when the right thing was done for ivan and amigaabaitor. I've offered up money for a new machine should it have come out by mid-Sept. even if it might have been buggy and totally unproven given development and production timeframes. And I haven't seen a glittering or d0c post in quite some time. There is no one showing him as rolling a mustache with an evil laugh somewhere. And even if you want to believe that this "villian portrayal" is supposedly going on who is causing this situation for himself? If he packs up Kneedeep's board and puts it in the mail with a tracking number this thread will likely die pretty soon.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 19-Sep-2007 at 08:29 PM.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Hans

Quote:

It's almost impossible to post a vaguely neutral comment about ACK without someone else telling you that you just don't seem to get how bad ACK really is.

I don't see that. Its been re-iterated a number of times that Ivan and AmigaAbtor got their boards back. Its been re-ierated a number of times that it is believed ACK Software Controls did at least a couple of other successful repairs in the past adding to their legitimacy. There have been thank yous and words of encouragement for a good change in direction to ACK in this thread from multiple posters. The thread went silent for quite some time as well in a conscious effort by some posters to give it a rest for ACK to have extra time free from public pressure.

_________________
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Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Hans Quote: [quote]However, I wouldn't call it an advertisement that he's "open for business". The firm did not take it to PM. This was an open discussion it had in showing a willingness to obtain new repair work. I think given that, its joint press release with Amiga about new machines, talk on IRC, things like talking about the "can do" North American attitude, short replies to some critics about how they will have to eat their words, etc. I think ACK is definately taking a position that they are up and running to do business.

An over-analysis of subtleties; just because ACK didn't take it to PM, doesn't mean that he's trying to entice others to send him boards. People rarely have a reason for every twitch and nuance of their behaviour, and they make mistakes (ACK, has made plenty of them). Also, we were discussing "open for business" regarding repairs, not whatever else ACK is involved in; his comments regarding future hardware releases are irrelevant.

Quote:

While his motives may be of interest to a student of psychology I'm more concerned about actual actions (or the lack thereof). I never gave him the "villian portrayal", even after he went off on me. I 've had encouraging words when the right thing was done for ivan and amigaabaitor. I've offered up money for a new machine should it have come out by mid-Sept. even if it might have been buggy as hell and totally unproven. And I haven't seen a glittering or d0c post in quite some time. There is no one showing him as rolling a mustache with an evil laugh somewhere. And even if you want to believe that this "villian portrayal" is supposedly going on who is causing this situation for himself? If he packs up Kneedeep's board and puts it in the mail with a tracking number this thread will likely die pretty soon.

"Villain portrayal" is, once again, a metaphor, not a literal description of what's been going on in this thread. You seem to be interpreting metaphorical language in a much more literal sense.

I don't care how good and self-righteous you think you are in the face of others such as ACK "going off on you", you consistently point out how bad he is, disagreeing with anyone saying something that didn't help this campaign you set out on (or crusade) to have the boards returned. It isn't just glittering or d0c; this thread has been a bit of a lynch mob at times. It's not about moustaches and evil laughs, it's about picking the worst possible wording (a dysphemism, if you like) to describe his actions; it's about picking a negative angle on events. This includes claiming that he's out soliciting for boards, when he was in fact, responding to a request.

Note that your post ends with a reminder, that while you don't agree with the "villain portrayal" metaphor, if it is true, it's his own fault. Obviously, he's brought a lot of trouble on himself; but painting a bleaker (i.e., more negative) picture than is really there, is not helpful at all.

Hans

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Hans Quote: It's almost impossible to post a vaguely neutral comment about ACK without someone else telling you that you just don't seem to get how bad ACK really is. I don't see that. Its been re-iterated a number of times that Ivan and AmigaAbtor got their boards back. Its been re-ierated a number of times that it is believed ACK Software Controls did at least a couple of other successful repairs in the past adding to their legitimacy. There have been thank yous and words of encouragement for a good change in direction to ACK in this thread from multiple posters. The thread went silent for quite some time as well in a conscious effort by some posters to give it a rest for ACK to have extra time free from public pressure.

A few isolated counter-examples does not change the overwhelming tone of this thread.

Hans

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

You are concerned about wording and it being misused. I said that I felt you saying Terminator3 was "begging" was an overstatement. Perhaps you felt it was good to do as a counterbalance to ChrisH bringing up the issue, I don't know. You claimed it to be a shorthand instead of calling it simply a request or asking at that time. And I only said I felt it was an bit of an overstatement to use that word of "begging".

As to this "lynch mob", which I suppose I should take as another metaphor. Anyway, you choose to see what you see as negative wording as it has come along and summarily cast aside anything positive as not enough. It dosen't fit a neat & tidy arguement for you I am guessing. Perhaps you should give as much benefit of the doubt that you give to ACK to some of your fellow posters here. Otherwise you are doing what you accuse others are doing, just to someone else IMHO.

Also, somewhat as an aside, I've said it before, there is a very strange group psychology in the Amiga community. If this were a carb repair company on a car forum or any other place that I've seen outside the world of Amiga there would be a huge rallying around the wronged community member(s) with near universal support for the vendor to fix the problem with the customer ASAP.

We will never know and people will have different opinions on this, but I think this thread helped to get the 2 boards back out of the 3 that were held. And that is helpful if it did. The worst part is the thread was started with the belief that ACK's promise before this thread started would probably come true (see post #1) and I hoped there would be nothing but good things to discuss. And I still hope as I have said several times before that ACK correct outstanding issues so that it can rebuild a good relationship with the community. I hope kneedeep gets his board back soon, that this thread can then be made dead and buried and that we all someday get to run ACK Amigas. But when this all started we had three guys in our very small community who were being screwed with word it was being corrected in short order. Hopefully it will get to none sooner than later.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 19-Sep-2007 at 10:47 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 19-Sep-2007 at 10:46 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 19-Sep-2007 at 10:44 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 19-Sep-2007 at 10:43 PM.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Hans You are concerned about wording and it being misused. I said that I felt you saying Terminator3 was "begging" was an overstatement. Perhaps you felt it was good to do as a counterbalance to ChrisH bringing up the issue, I don't know. You claimed it to be a shorthand instead of calling it simply a request or asking at that time. And I only said I felt it was an bit of an overstatement to use that word of "begging".

"Begging" was the best term I could find to describe several requests (not one) over several months. Yes it was an exaggeration, to get the point across. Anyway, I think that we're clear on this one, so we can leave it at that.

Quote:

As to this "lynch mob", which I suppose I should take as another metaphor. Anyway, you choose to see what you see as negative wording as it has come along and summarily cast aside anything positive as not enough. It dosen't fit a neat & tidy arguement for you I am guessing. Perhaps you should give as much benefit of the doubt that you give to ACK to some of your fellow posters here. Otherwise you are doing what you accuse others are doing, just to someone else IMHO.

I'm not choosing to see the negative; I do see positive comments in this thread, including the ones from you. However, the general tone has been pretty negative and even nasty. It's not that anyone is specifically out there to "lynch" ACK. However, collectively, that's almost what we got here. In a lynch mob, everyone does just a little bit, but the end result is pretty nasty. That's what I'm talking about.

Quote:

We will never know and people will have different opinions on this, but I think this thread helped to get the 2 boards back out of the 3 that were held. And that is helpful if it did. And I hope as I have said several times before that ACK correct outstanding issues so that it can rebuild a good relationship with the community. I hope kneedeep gets his board back soon, that this thread can then be made dead and buried and that we all someday get to run ACK Amigas. But when this all started we had three guys in our very small community who were being screwed. Hopefully it will get to none sooner than later.

I think that it helped get the boards back, or at least back a lot earlier than would otherwise have happened. I hope that he returns Kneedeep's board soon as well.

@ackcontrls

If you're reading this, please take the time to contact Kneedeep and get his board returned. It's taken far too long already. I'd really like to see this thread drop off the front page for good and I'm sure you'd prefer that too.

Hans

Last edited by Hans on 19-Sep-2007 at 11:04 PM.

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans
If there is any sort of lynch mob here (despite us staying well within AW.net's TOS), then ACK deserves it to be honest. Don't forget that he still hasn't paid Jens for those A1200 connectors (and apparently even pretended to be someone else when he was caught on the phone) . At some point his actions (or lack thereof) need to have consequences. With only one thread, it seems like he's getting off pretty lightly IMHO.

If ACK wasn't tempting us with the prospect of new OS4 mobos, then I very much doubt that *anyone* would be giving him the leeway that he has (and still is) being given.

P.S. The irate yet objective post by Jens (that I linked to above) pretty much sums-up the situation.

Last edited by ChrisH on 20-Sep-2007 at 06:58 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 20-Sep-2007 at 06:56 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @Hans If there is any sort of lynch mob here (despite us staying well within AW.net's TOS), then ACK deserves it to be honest. Don't forget that he still hasn't paid Jens for those A1200 connectors (and apparently even pretended to be someone else when he was caught on the phone) . At some point his actions (or lack thereof) need to have consequences. With only one thread, it seems like he's getting off pretty lightly IMHO. If ACK wasn't tempting us with the prospect of new OS4 mobos, then I very much doubt that *anyone* would be giving him the leeway that he has (and still is) being given. P.S. The irate yet objective post by Jens (that I linked to above) pretty much sums-up the situation.

Do you really think that I don't know about all the bad decisions ACK has made? You've just demonstrated further that people will continually remind you just how bad ACK is. I don't care if he deserves a lynch mob on his back, that doesn't mean that it should actually happen. In a real mob, everyone can do just a little, give the guy a little jab (i.e., stay within the TOS), resulting in a pretty bad beating overall.

I'm not suggesting that anyone has to be nice to ACK, or that we should be ok with ACK's behaviour, but I'd hate to see things get carried away again. It is possible for people to voice their displeasure without going over the top. My attitude would be the same even if he wasn't "tempting us with the prospect of new boards" (which is not very tempting given that none of his boards have ever been seen, IMHO).

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.