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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:01:51
#641 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 632
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
See my replies to fairlane about rattleing a few cages with the people that have the ability to do something and stop being so down on someone trying to make a difference in a positive way.


You are assuming that Hyperion has the ability to go x86 at this time. What if they simply don't? Then what? Do they even have to grace you with an answer?


Yep. I can't argue that and don't want to. I hope it does not fall on deaf ears because i would like to use it one day.

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TheDaddy 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:02:16
#642 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

@SHADES

>>I got it for $500, remember?. What do you think i would make selling it on the market 2nd hand? that may buy a custom chip on the SAM board but leave me with no computer at all.

Maybe you should have saved that $500 and put it towards the SAM+OS4.1?

The fact remains that I think you are wasting your time.

Let's get excited about OS4 on x86 when there is a proper indication until then get AROS.

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eXec 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:02:17
#643 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 955
From: Burkina Faso

edit by wegster

I asked you to stop spamming, you continued, with more flames, from nowhere. Post removed.

Next total spam from you = take a vacation. Contribute, discuss, but knock off the spam and flaming. - wegster

Last edited by wegster on 26-Mar-2009 at 11:14 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:06:34
#644 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

edit by wegster - spam, flame, and response to spam removed. Eat spam with ketchup, don't post and respond on forums, please.

You want x86 AOS, again, I get it, I got it the first 30 times. So do I. Yeah! We agree!

Last edited by wegster on 26-Mar-2009 at 11:17 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:08 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:08 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:07 PM.

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:09:58
#645 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 632
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
@fairlanefastback

Not at all. I am not slandering progress PPC or otherwise. What I am saying is it's not feesable for it to continue this way.


Hyperion will be the judge of that (at least currently). Its their product (at least currently). If they want to release OS 4.1 for PPC Mac Mini they will. You may think that destroys the long term future. So far they don't seem to agree with you. But they will never forget your very vocal protracted protests I am quite sure. You've said your peace to them correct? You've done your best to save the OS from oblivion in your view. I can respect that. Maybe even they do. Perhaps you have subtlety altered their view already, maybe you have radically altered even. Time will tell. In the meantime though there is little point to go more in circles I think.


I don't think it is up to Hyperion honestly.
I am most gratefull that they have done what they have thus far. i hope one day i and the masses will be able to enjoy the fruits of their labours and that the AOS line continues.

As for very vocal protests, that can clearly be seen from both sides, that's semantics right there.

Thank you for respecting my comments/debates here.
As i said, i don't have it in for hyperion or AMIGA Inc. I vocied my opinions and backed up my arguments in an effort you now see was done with my best efforts and others too of keeping the Hyperion / A inc OS alive for years to come.

I don't think people have problems, there is a definate bias to stay away from x86, let's hope the furture whatever will be will change whatever the codebase is if it can be agruged favourably too. this is why thae cirle debate seems to happen. i guess it that IBM legacy we all dislike and with good reason. The AMIGA was way ahead of it's time and a very good product that is defended feverently. I'm glad you now see I was still in it's favour.

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:11:28
#646 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 632
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
I agree that it will cost more intitally but look at the alternative that keeps upping the price with less guarantee of a future, relies on someone to step up and make H/W before you can even sell it and it suddenly makes marketing/financial sense to at least entertain the idea of a change now before it gets harder and more complicated, more code, more time etc...


Fine, who is going to pay the more intial cost? Thats the central core question. And the secondary one is, will the community wait for the time it would take to make x86 happen, assuming you could solve the money issue.

My belief is the money is not there for the port and that the community would not wait. I hope I am wrong on both counts and that you are right. Meaning I hope you are right that simply convincing Hyperion to make x86 will make them do it, and do it quick, and not at too much expense in lost updates for current PPC users. But do you really, really believe all that is possible?


It would have to be the people currently investing the programming for its current H/W base. That and the community if it is welcomed.

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:14:26
#647 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 632
From: Melbourne

@TheDaddy

Quote:

TheDaddy wrote:
@SHADES

>>See my replies to fairlane about rattleing a few cages with the people that have the ability to do something and stop being so down on someone trying to make a difference in a positive way. I don't tell you to go way being a current owner. Your 1 of the current small userbase. Not one extra.


"Someone trying to make a difference in a positive way?" Are you taking the p!ss?

The only thing you are doing with your posts is making the SAM+OS4.1 users feel depressed! Making ACube and Hyperion feel depressed (or maybe they are just laughing their t1ts off by reading your posts).

And what actually are you doing that is so great? Organise a laughable bounty for something that won't happen?

Talking about being optimistic.

And as I bought my SAM+OS4.1 a few months ago then this has made the OS4.1 userbase bigger by one.





If Acube are banking on the community for recouping their costs for that dev and manufactur, they are already gone. Through no fault of this discussion. just sheer numbers. no one is out to make anyone feel depressed, again you decide to look at this entire discussion as a negative with nothing postive to take out of it.
Just wonderfull. Hope you don't take it personally and egg my car too.

Last edited by SHADES on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:17 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:20:50
#648 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
@TheDaddy


If Acube are banking on the community for recouping their costs for that dev and manufactur, they are already gone. Through no fault of this discussion. just sheer numbers. no one is out to make anyone feel depressed, again you decide to look at this entire discussion as a negative with nothing postive to take out of it.


I personally doubt that (that Acube is banking on us to recoup costs). I would think they expect the embedded market it was designed for to do that. That said, I don't expect them to exactly discount the hardware for our unrelated market either.

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TheDaddy 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:21:26
#649 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

@SHADES

>>no one is out to make anyone feel depressed, again you decide to look at this entire discussion as a negative with nothing postive to take out of it.
Just wonderfull. Hope you don't take it personally and egg my car too.



I wonder if it's better not replying to your posts...


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Leo 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:27:26
#650 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1586
From: Unknown

Quote:

r they may simply not be interested in supporting two different architectures simultaneously and releasing multiple binaries all the time.

Who talks about supporting two architectures at the same time ? I'm talking about porting the app for once... The goal is to *move on* to a new architecture, not to support two architectures at the same time. It's not like Apple where there are millions of PPC users that you cannot leave. We have hundreds of users. Either they switch, and they get support. Or they don't, and they do not get support anymore. Of course the Amiga can't afford to support several architectures...

As for people that can't be reached or don't want to move on, well, they don't... So what ? You can't expect 100% of available software to be available on the new architecture.

And no I'm not kidding... Look, people were waiting for every 68k application to be available as native PPC app, and they are still waiting. Because this will never happen. This doesn't mean we shouldn't move on to the next architecture and forget about the old one...

This is called evolution. Of course during some period there will be little apps available. But this is *inevitable* and I think it highly worths the effort. Unless you want to wait another 7 years with 5 years old expensive hardware, unadapted to the desktop where you can barely play a DVD because hardware is so slow... it's time to move on, now. The history has proved that even though we take time to do this, people are still interested in using old generations apps... Look, we're talking about next generation x86, and people are still looking at a way to run (two generation backwards !) 68k apps... And during that time, people are leaving, so we end up with again less ressources, less users, less developers, and more and more bored people...

Porting the OS to another outdated (even though not that outdated) unsupported Apple hardware won't change anything. Let's say the OS is ported to the MacMini within 6 months (and I'm highly optimistic). You double the number of users: from a thousand, to two thousand (I'm again highly optimistic, and this means no one leaves the Amiga during that period...). What happens next ? during that time the OS is 6 months older. Still hasn't evolved. Still isn't ready for next generation hardware. You just waste six more months.

Last edited by Leo on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:34 PM.
Last edited by Leo on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:28 PM.
Last edited by Leo on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:27 PM.

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d0c 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:28:48
#651 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Sep-2004
Posts: 896
From: UK

after 33 posts and still no x86 version for aos?

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:28:54
#652 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 632
From: Melbourne

@TheDaddy

Quote:

TheDaddy wrote:
@SHADES

>>no one is out to make anyone feel depressed, again you decide to look at this entire discussion as a negative with nothing postive to take out of it.
Just wonderfull. Hope you don't take it personally and egg my car too.



I wonder if it's better not replying to your posts...




Please. I just looked at your last posts and LOL gestures at efforts in the porting thread.
You obviously carry a personal grudge against a CPU codebase. Hope it stays just there.

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:30:03
#653 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 632
From: Melbourne

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
@TheDaddy


If Acube are banking on the community for recouping their costs for that dev and manufactur, they are already gone. Through no fault of this discussion. just sheer numbers. no one is out to make anyone feel depressed, again you decide to look at this entire discussion as a negative with nothing postive to take out of it.


I personally doubt that (that Acube is banking on us to recoup costs). I would think they expect the embedded market it was designed for to do that. That said, I don't expect them to exactly discount the hardware for our unrelated market either.


Oh heck yes! I would think/do the same. It would be insane any other way and if a small 50 users is all I got, I wouldn't slap their hands away either.

Last edited by SHADES on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:33 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:33 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:30 PM.

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TheDaddy 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:30:23
#654 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

@SHADES

>>Please. I just looked at your last posts and LOL gestures at efforts in the porting thread.
You obviously carry a personal grudge against a CPU codebase. Hope it stays just there.


Yes because this is high quality comedy stuff!

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SHADES 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:31:28
#655 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 632
From: Melbourne

@TheDaddy

Quote:

TheDaddy wrote:
@SHADES

>>Please. I just looked at your last posts and LOL gestures at efforts in the porting thread.
You obviously carry a personal grudge against a CPU codebase. Hope it stays just there.


Yes because this is high quality comedy stuff!


Ok, cool

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fairlanefastback 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:33:45
#656 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@Leo

Quote:
Who talks about supporting two architectures at the same time ? I'm talking about porting the app for once... The goal is to *move on* to a new architecture, not to support two architectures at the same time. It's not like Apple where there are millions of PPC users that you cannot leave. We have hundreds of users. Either they switch, and they get support. Or they don't, and they do not get support anymore. Of course the Amiga can't afford to support several architectures...


So you want Hyperion to abandon their newest customers starting today then? PPC support to end immediately? All forces to bear in the x86 effort ASAP? You think really that Hyperion would be crazy enough to do that?

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bernd_afa 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:34:44
#657 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Apr-2006
Posts: 829
From: Unknown

@TheDaddy

>Yes because porting an OS (AOS) to x86 takes a couple of days...

how long do you think take it ?

Hyperion slowness is no reference, look how fast AROS is port to a new CPU.
the last port was Intel X64 for AROS.

if OS4 is good written and not PPC only, i think a port can done in 6 Months.
and 6 months before can really see that something as SAM make no sense to get much more users.

but ok with the Hyperion slowness it take maybe longer, but on AROS for Intel 64 this time is take).But port AOS to a 64 bit CPU is much more work than for 32 bit or use in X86 64 mode only 32 bit datatypes.

there is known that exec for OS4 is complete ainc code free, so OS4 exec can go opensource.

Same is with the new features OS4 support, they can to go opensource.

then OS4 can port to any Hardware if the developers have no money to do it.

that amiga OS go down with PPC i think since 2001.but now finaly seem more see, it make no sense to stay on PPC.

so wy not most of OS4 make opensource, i think many expert devs that leave the amiga help to port OS4 to a good platform

and btw MOS can too go opensource and we get a perfect amiga OS out of OS4 /MOS and AROS code.

I see not that the PPC OS developers work fast, i think they work incredible slow the last 5 years.
with opensource all can go faster.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 26-Mar-2009 at 03:38 PM.

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Leo 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:37:29
#658 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1586
From: Unknown

Quote:

So you want Hyperion to abandon their newest customers starting today then? PPC support to end immediately?

Not exactly. They admit PPC is a dead end. They take necessary decisions, and move on. They have to convince people this is a good path. And current customers choose to leave or take the boat...

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fairlanefastback 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:39:01
#659 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4874
From: New York, USA

@bernd_afa

Quote:
with opensource all can go faster.


So run AROS, and make bounties to make AROS as much like AOS 4.x as possible. Why do you need AOS 4.x at all?

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TheDaddy 
Re: ...My dear Hyperion, is now the time to go to --> x86 ???
Posted on 26-Mar-2009 15:39:35
#660 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

@bernd_afa

I'll be back when OS4 is running properly and has lots of apps/games on a variety of x86 motherboards...until then you can find me and others on my SAM+OS4.1 PPC.

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