@olegil

Beat me to it Mr Olegil

_________________

@olegil

What use is JIT/interpretive 68k emulation without UAE? What exactly does it do in its native role in AmigaOS. Does it help classic software to run but NOT software that bangs the custom chips?

I'm confused , not a liar! If I saw that functionality on the back of the Amiga OS4.1 box, I'd expect to be able to run my Classic software on the Sam & OS4.1, but the reality is very different isn't it? That sort of customer would be better off buying a 'Minimig' and/or a classic 'miggy off eBay. Am I right?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Lies, failure and lies!

Sorry, BigD, this is utter BS... OS4.x has a nice and stable working JIT and interpreting 68k emulation, which I use every day.

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@BigD

You're not right. You're an -MOD EDIT-, No Name Calling please, this is an official warning, your second, your first was on 06/25/09 by Tomazkid.

If you've managed to go SIX bloody years without realising OS4 can execute most software that would work with a graphics card on a classic Amiga but requires the use of UAE for anything that goes directly to the OCS/ECS/AGA chips then you're beyond help.

Honestly.

If all people want to run is their A500 games then they're MUCH better off just installing UAE on their PC than buying a minimig. And THAT's a fact.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2009 at 06:48 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2009 at 06:48 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2009 at 06:47 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 31-Jul-2009 at 06:41 PM.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@cha05e90

Quote:

OS4.x has a nice and stable working JIT and interpreting 68k emulation, which I use every day.

What do you use it for if not to run Classic software and AGA games? I don't see what the point of this emulation support is other than to help the porting of UAE!!! A 'Universal Amiga Emululator' PORT HASN'T YET HAPPENED, so what's its use without it??

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Does it help classic software to run but NOT software that bangs the custom chips?

Correct. It is a 68k emulation not a 68k and Agnus and Paula and Lisa and Gary and CIA-A and etc. pp. emulation.
As always, this is what I call "expectation management". What you consider "classic software" is - for example - totally useless for my original classic Amigas, 'cos most of that stuff doesn't run properly with OS3.9 and on my graphics cards.
*I* expect "classic software" to run on my classic Amigas in their current form (CyberGrafX/Picasso96, OS3.9, graphics card etc. pp.) and these should work on my OS4.1 system also. And guess what? Most of them do so.

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@Thread

What Classic software are people likely to want to use if they get interested with the Amiga again (yes POTENTIAL NEW USERS - you could put ME in that bracket if you want)?

Deluxe Paint
AGA Games
OCS Games

Is this JIT/interpretive Emulation going to help with ANYTHING that isn't P96 or RTG enabled? I think not!! So I ask again WHAT DO YOU SPECIFICALLY USE IT FOR AND HAS IT ANY REAL BENEFIT TO NEW USERS WHO WANT TO USE THEIR OLD CLASSIC SOFTWARE??

Most people returning to the platform probably don't even know the Classic could use graphics cards, never mind actually used a RTG centric-program. Calling me an idiot is not going to help, If the feature set is incomplete OS4.x is going no where, and I'd view UAE on OS4.x as an indespensible componenet of the emulation!

I've got a Picasso IV card on my Classic, but I still prefer Delux Paint V over TV Paint! Deluxe Paint IV is described as working on OS4.x on these forums but I get the impression it's buggy and requires third party software! Am I right?

Last edited by BigD on 31-Jul-2009 at 10:20 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

What do you use it for if not to run Classic software and AGA games?

Sorry, I won't give you a complete and very long list of OS3.x 68k classic software that I use on my OS4.1 SAM, only a few examples:

IBrowse, Wordworth, AmigaWriter, TVPaint, PersonalPaint, FXPaint, FinalWriter, Envoy, Amplifier, ARexx ( ), Drawstudio, MicrogoldED, ...

BTW: AGA Games doesn't run even on my real classic Amigas... (see my sig.)

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@cha05e90

Quote:

IBrowse, Wordworth, AmigaWriter, TVPaint, PersonalPaint, FXPaint, FinalWriter, Envoy, Amplifier, ARexx ( ), Drawstudio, MicrogoldED, ...

A quite impressive list! Am I right in thinking this required a degree of tweaking and hacking to get these programs to work? Would they work out the box on a fresh install of OS4.1 for instance? I am just trying to guage how useful this emulation is WITHOUT the custom chip support!

Last edited by BigD on 31-Jul-2009 at 10:34 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

What do you use it for if not to run Classic software and AGA games?

The obvious answer is to run OS4 native software !

Most 68k stuff runs without the need for UAE by using Petunia. UAE is only needed for a few old games and badly written hardware banging software that isn't worth using anymore anyway.

@BigD

The only tweaking I needed to apply is the tweaking I would do on my classic graphics card equipped Amigas also (i.e. promoting/defining custom screens for DrawStudio).
Sometimes you have to switch between JIT or interpretive emulation, sometimes it can be useful to use a PPC native library instead of a 68k library etc. - but these are "tweaks" I do on my classic Amigas in a analog way (i.e. using a 68040 library instead of a 68000 library)...

[EDIT: lib example]

Last edited by cha05e90 on 31-Jul-2009 at 10:39 AM.

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@BillE

Quote:

Most 68k stuff runs without the need for UAE by using Petunia. UAE is only needed for a few old games and badly written hardware banging software that isn't worth using anymore anyway.

Couldn't put it in better words. Yep.

_________________
X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@BillE

Quote:

UAE is only needed for a few old games and badly written hardware banging software that isn't worth using anymore anyway.

1) The Amiga game catalogue is extensive and not limited to a 'few old games'!
2) The programs I like to use are mainly AGA apps - Deluxe Paint V, SCALA MM400, BlitzBasic2 etc.

I'm really not seeing the 'benefit' of buying a Sam for emulation reasons! i'd be better off buying a PC and running UAE or buying a Minimig to run A500 games!!

OR THE BEST IDEA THAT I HAVE!! Hold onto my Classic Hardware and make the best use of it I can & thank God daily that it still works! Finally, when it does finally die, I will say a fond farewell to the Amiga scene and embrace the Mac computer as my new computer home

Last edited by BigD on 31-Jul-2009 at 10:43 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

Quote:

Is this JIT/interpretive Emulation going to help with ANYTHING that isn't P96 or RTG enabled? I think not!! So I ask again WHAT DO YOU SPECIFICALLY USE IT FOR AND HAS IT ANY REAL BENEFIT TO NEW USERS WHO WANT TO USE THEIR OLD CLASSIC SOFTWARE??

I use CubicIDE (for programming, editing source code), Turbocalc, and rc-ftpd. Also, all the 68k librarys and MUI classes etc are accelerated with the 68k emulators.

Is that acceptable to you, or are you going to yell at us some more because we didn't all buy our AmigaOne and Sam machines to play Superfrog?

@BigD

Any chance you could take that discussion in a separate thread? Or maybe, like, search the threads we've had here for the last 6 years on the topic?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@BigD

Quote:

2) The programs I like to use are mainly AGA apps - Deluxe Paint V, SCALA MM400, BlitzBasic2 etc. I'm really not seeing the 'benefit' of buying a Sam for emulation reasons! i'd be better off buying a PC and running UAE or buying a Minimig to run A500 games!!

Scala has been overtaken by Hollywood, and AmiBlitz (the newest open source version of Blitz Basic) works well with OS4 . And yes, I'd agree that its a good idea to buy a machine that suits your needs.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @cha05e90 Quote: IBrowse, Wordworth, AmigaWriter, TVPaint, PersonalPaint, FXPaint, FinalWriter, Envoy, Amplifier, ARexx ( ), Drawstudio, MicrogoldED, ... A quite impressive list! Am I right in thinking this required a degree of tweaking and hacking to get these programs to work? Would they work out the box on a fresh install of OS4.1 for instance? I am just trying to guage how useful this emulation is WITHOUT the custom chip support!

Most of this software works on AOS4 and MOS without any patches or changes.

But I believe you are asking the wrong questions ,,,

The right question would be:
How does old software benefit more from a build in 68k emulator than from an UAE ?

Old 68k software could use PPC libraies or datatypes when running on an emulated 68k, that was the idea behind the built in 68k emulation.

The next question would be:
Are the benefits of a bult in 68k emulation important enough to stay on a CPU with Motorola byte ordering ? Would it not be better to have an Amiga like system ( like AROS or ANUBIS ) on a hardware with different byte ordering ?


IBrowse -> obsolte OWD is better
Wordworth, AmigaWriter,FinalWriter -> can run in UAE, native software on X11
TVPaint, PersonalPaint, FXPaint -> can run in UAE, native software is under developmentr
Envoy -> is obsolte, SAMBA is needed
...

There will be less reasons for transparent 68k emulation in the future

Last edited by Arko on 31-Jul-2009 at 11:03 AM.
Last edited by Arko on 31-Jul-2009 at 10:58 AM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@jahc

Quote:

Scala has been overtaken by Hollywood

I've heard so much about Hollywood! This if anything would be a reason to buy a Sam to get coding! Is there a review anywhere online?

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Arko

Quote:

Hyperion could use this time to port their OS somewehere else, or to search a hardware partner that is able to build powerful PPC boards for only twice the price of an equal x86 boad.

Making partners with a Power Linux hardware maker would be a start wo whoever does the IBM RISC AIX hardware. Hmm, maybe Power5 or Power6, isn't exactly compatible with PowerPC.

But, hey, who cares! The Sam isn't exactly compatible with a G3 or G4 and OS4 runs on that.

@Arko

I thought it was:
Quote:

When it's done.