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TheMaskedMuchacho 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 27-Oct-2009 17:55:31
#101 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Feb-2006
Posts: 341
From: Unknown

@ChrisH

an expose like function would be even more useful on an os that supports screens, would compliment nicely the ability to drag screens too, don't you think?

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Dandy 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 5:46:17
#102 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@HKvalhe

Quote:

HKvalhe wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:


Multi-core (SMP) support! but where is the right hardware to run on?



That power house might be expensive,



From my POV it is not really expensive - at least if I compare it with what I got for my money if I bought a SAM.
SAM is a joke (namely a bad one) compared to that beast.

And 1250 $ is not what I'd call expensive - given what I'd get for my money.

Quote:

HKvalhe wrote:

but i believe SMP-technology will be tested with such hardware to see how effective it can become in AmigaOS 4.2..



And such hardware could help to develop AOS towards 64 bit architecture.

Quote:

HKvalhe wrote:

There will be cheaper multi-core hardwares which will make it very attractive to the Amiga home market, just like the time of Amiga 500 and Amiga 1200 made an impact at the home market late 80-ies and the early 90-ies.



I don't think that any multi-core PPC hardware will be much cheaper than 1250 $.
Just 1250$ for such a beast...

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Dandy 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 6:19:22
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:

Also ACube will have a product that has PPC460 that can house one or several cores.



Accordfing to the IBM PPC460-S user manual the PPC460-S contains a dual issue, superscalar, 32 bit low-powerengine. No mention of of several cores - sorry.

To me it sounds significantly more appealing what the user manual of the IBM 970MP tells:

"The IBM 970MP RISC Microprocessor is a dual-core, 64-bit implementation of the IBM PowerPC® family of
reduced instruction set computer (RISC) microprocessors that are based on the PowerPC Architecture. This
dual microprocessor, also called the 970MP, includes a Vector/SIMD facility in each core which supports
high-bandwidth data processing and compute-intensive operations. The 970MP is designed to support
multiple system organizations, including desktop and low-end server applications, up through 4-way SMP
configurations."

And the YDL PowerStation has two of them - for just 1250$...

Quote:

KimmoK wrote:

...
Also, IIRC, Hyperion has a dualG4 CPU card for AmigaOneXE, so that most likely would be te first test bed.



Fine for them if THEY have - but I somehow fail to see how this would help us to buy one today.


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COBRA 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 6:40:02
#104 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Trixie

Quote:
That sounds good - my SanDisk Cruzer Mini USB stick (a 2GB one) is not recognized either on my SAM. So let's hope things have improved.


USB has improved greatly on all hardware, but it will be especially noticable on the Sam, let me explain: The AmigaOne boards have a USB chip which uses the uhci standard, so the uhci driver was developed first. When the Sam boards (which use ohci) came out, the ohci driver of OS4 was still in its early stages of development and not as advanced as uhci on AmigaOne, so USB support was very bad on the Sam, with the publically available version one of my two pendrives is not recognised at all, and PTP cameras do not work at all on the Sam (while it works on AmigaOne with uhci), but with the latest to-be-released ohci driver all these problems are solved and it works great.

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Mrodfr 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 6:43:23
#105 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Posts: 1396
From: French

@COBRA

I pray each days god about the FAT32 CROSSDOSfilesystem crash will be resolved also......................

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COBRA 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 6:56:04
#106 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Mrodfr

Quote:
I pray each days god about the FAT32 CROSSDOSfilesystem crash will be resolved also


Is there a systematic way of reproducing that?

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KimmoK 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 6:57:21
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5192
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Dandy

It could be that SMP 460 chips are out of reach for amiga companies, but otherwise I think they exist...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_400#PowerPC_460
...
AMCC 460
The PowerPC 460EX and 460GT from AMCC are, despite their name, processors with the 440 core. They are available at 0.6 to 1.2 GHz and have integrated controllers for DDR or DDR2 SDRAM, USB 2.0, PCIe, SATA, and Gigabit Ethernet.
...

PowerPC 460
Introduced in 2006, the 460 cores are similar to the 440 but reach 1.4 GHz, are developed with multi-core applications in mind and have 24 additional digital signal processing (DSP) instructions. The cores are designed to be low-power but high performance and the 464-H90 is expected to draw only 0.53 W at 1 GHz. The 460 core adheres to Power ISA v.2.03 using the Book III-E specification.

PowerPC 460S – A completely synthesized core and can be licensed from IBM or Synopsys for manufacturing on different foundries. 460S can be configured with different amounts of L1 and L2 cache as well as with or without SMP and FPU.[6]
PowerPC 464-H90 - A 90 nm, hard core (not synthesizable), released in 2006, will offer a customizable core for ASICs that can be manufactured with IBM or at manufacturing facilities at Chartered or Samsung.
PowerPC 464FP-H90 – Released in 2007, is a hard core that adds a double precision floating point unit (FPU).
[edit] AMCC
AMCC's PowerPC 460SX and 460GTx are based on the 464P core. They are targeted towards very high-end storage and networking applications, respectively. They run at 0.8 to 1.4 GHz, have 512 KB of L2 cache that doubles as SRAM storage, a DDR2 memory controller, four Gigabit Ethernet controllers, PCIe controllers and a variety of application-specific accelerators and controller facilities. They are manufactured on a 90 nm process.

IBM will release more hard 460-based cores in the future. On the roadmap are the PowerPC 465 and 466, but their configurations are unknown.

PowerPC 470
IBM is developing the 470 embedded and customizable core, with confirmed implementation in the PowerPC 476.[7][8] The 470 core has a new 9 stage pipeline, a AltiVec SIMD unit and handles DSP instructions. The new pipeline handles speeds up to 1.6 GHz. Supports the PLB6 bus, L2 cache and SMP configurations. Availability unknown.
...

IMO: PPC 460 core (SMP or not) would be ok upgrade for me...

Last edited by KimmoK on 28-Oct-2009 at 07:01 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-Oct-2009 at 06:58 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 28-Oct-2009 at 06:58 AM.

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Trixie 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 8:18:21
#108 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1990
From: Czech Republic

@COBRA

Quote:
with the latest to-be-released ohci driver all these problems are solved and it works great.

Fantastic news! I've never used a dancing banana in my post but now I will:

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Mrodfr 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 8:25:21
#109 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Posts: 1396
From: French

@COBRA

Hum, you afraid me

My example is to copy Amicygnix on a FAT32 key on SAM.

With:

- Verry long drawer path
- Files with more than one point in their names
- .dummy files with 0 bytes size

Error came and all are trashed on the key.

NOTE: that sometime work but not all the .dummy files are copied on the key and if want to copy one by one, dopus4 said It's copied but not showed on the dopus4 listview.

See my special report about this point here:

http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2607&forum=22&post_id=35123#forumpost35123

and lots of users have the same problems.

Honestly, I never use USB on SAM for copying something (use classic with spider2) and allways verry verry afraid to put USB media on AOS4.

This point will be my first question after the release of the next update for AOS4.

Thanks to be interrested for this point.

NOTE: I have also 2 problems with DVplayer I will send you by mail soon.



Last edited by Mrodfr on 28-Oct-2009 at 08:32 AM.
Last edited by Mrodfr on 28-Oct-2009 at 08:29 AM.

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 9:33:58
#110 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Mrodfr
I have had problems with trashed USB sticks too, but I *hope* that is merely due to corrupted data from poor USB support on OS4.1 beta for Sam440. But I do think I remember reading about improved FAT support too in OS4.1.1...

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Mrodfr 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 9:55:34
#111 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2007
Posts: 1396
From: French

@ChrisH

AFAIR, problem arive only on FAT and not on FFS or SFS formatted USB medias.

Quote:
But I do think I remember reading about improved FAT support too in OS4.1.1...


I pray for that. Hope a betatester could confirm here.........

_________________
BTW, what you have done for the amiga today ????

-A1200+Mediator+VooDoo3+060/50+96mo+SCSI-KIT
-SAM440EP-667mhz-on MapowerKC3000+AOS4.1

Amiga Docs Disks Preservation Project

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DAX 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 11:31:54
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@Dandy
I don't think Hyperion is stupid to ditch high power at low cost, if they didn't do it, there must be a reason.

I was told in another thread that those guys sell HW at a loss and recover with services, Hyperion indeed was in talk with them but without buying their services they asked $1000 more than 1250 (as they not only had to pay FULL PRICE, but they also included a profit margin on top of it).

There goes your $1250 myth...


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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 28-Oct-2009 12:02:28
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@DAX
Ouch! I guess that explains why they were (relatively) cheap.

_________________
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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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asymetrix 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 1:34:48
#114 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 867
From: United Kingdom

This is great news.

I hope the notification / progress windows are fully multi-threaded, i would hate a crash on a notification locking the UI.

Calculator: very needed update, how about currency / conversion features ?

Any plans for API for graphics tablets / pressure control ?

wget,grep,curl,sed are very handy commands to integrate.


What I would like in future OS updates:

Google search in command line (google shell): http://code.google.com/p/goosh/


Integration of translation capability like google translate (using wget/curl)
http://code.google.com/apis/ajaxlanguage/documentation/

OCR capability

Maybe use google tesseract OCR
http://code.google.com/p/tesseract-ocr/

wrap C++ within a PHP
http://files.myopera.com/atomo64/php5cpp/index.html?1257124785

A new superfast Amiga machine using : (from http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49987 )

Using Tile-Gx:
100 cores, 64-bit VLIW processors, 1.0 to 1.5GHz, 750 billion operations per second, 4 DDR3 controllers
H.264 HD video encode,

http://www.tilera.com/products/TILE-Gx.php






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fairlanefastback 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 1:58:24
#115 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote:
@Dandy
I don't think Hyperion is stupid to ditch high power at low cost, if they didn't do it, there must be a reason.

I was told in another thread that those guys sell HW at a loss and recover with services, Hyperion indeed was in talk with them but without buying their services they asked $1000 more than 1250 (as they not only had to pay FULL PRICE, but they also included a profit margin on top of it).

There goes your $1250 myth...




There is no myth. I can buy a YDL Powerstation from Fixtars for $1250. There is no indication that any other services need to be purchased.

http://www.fixstars.com/en/products/powerstation/price.html

If Hyperion wanted to buy one to use for porting tests Fixstars will not magically charge them $2250 instead to get one for that purpose. The price is $1250 for anyone who wants to buy one.

You really need to back up this claim.

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ssolie 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 3:01:01
#116 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada

@ChrisH
Quote:
OS4.2 was revealed by Steven Solie:

No it was not. There is no plan for 4.2 at this time and there certainly was never a set of features. Next time I would appreciate it if you confirmed with me first before assuming you knew what I meant.

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Troels 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 5:34:54
#117 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1988
From: Unknown

@ssolie

Threads like this are happening because we have only semi-official news from shows like Pianeta and some videos with bad sound quality from AmiWest about the future plans for AmigaOS.

If we in combination have had a press release on Hyperions website with the points made in the video and perhaps even with more details of where Hyperion will take AmigaOS a lot of mis-understandings could be avoided.

I hope that the MMC, erhm I mean MAP (most ambitious project) is the reason for the secrecy, and that Hyperion will be more open to the community after that is revealed.

Until that happens threads like this are great to try and collect the pieces we got. If something is wrong it is of course nice to see it corrected.

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Rob 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 6:31:42
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6034
From: S.Wales

@fairlanefastback

According to Matt Sealey of Genesi, the Fixstars price does not add up and they have to selling the PowerStation at a loss and making the money back elsewhere.
Apparently Hyperion have discussed OS4 with Fixstars but no deal went forward.

What Dax is referring to is my speculation as to why no deal was made. They were probably be unwilling to share documentation with Hyperion without clear conditions about OS4 being bundled with non discounted Powerstation hardware.

Have a look at the following links to see where I drew my conclusions from.

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=6484&forum=11

http://www.powerdeveloper.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1739&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 9:54:53
#119 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@ssolie Quote:
No it was not. There is no plan for 4.2 at this time and there certainly was never a set of features. Next time I would appreciate it if you confirmed with me first before assuming you knew what I meant.

Sorry. But you *did* mention "OS4.2 & beyond", and my post was simply meant to be a summary of what you (& others) said.

What would you like me to change it to say?

Last edited by ChrisH on 02-Nov-2009 at 09:57 AM.

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ChrisH 
Re: OS4 roadmap (from AmiWest & Pianeta Amiga)
Posted on 2-Nov-2009 10:01:45
#120 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@Rob
Thanks for the links. It also describes how IBM was involved in the YDL Powerstation. Seems like they basically funded the entire design!

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