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BigD 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 9:47:39
#181 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5976
From: UK

@linnar

Quote:
Bill McEwen gave Amiga a second chance!


Yeah, and then Amiga Inc failed to take that chance!

Spinning off AmigaOS development to a third party was ONE good decision, but in the end they lawyers were brought in because of the badly written contract. I believe Bill had good intentions but that he was either incapable of delivering or was forced into a decade of fudges by Amiga Inc's investors!! This in no way excuses him of the responsibility of taking the Amiga brand backwards!!!

The 'www.amiga.com' website was in a better state back in 1999/2000 than it was in 2009!! It looked fairly professional 10 YEARS AGO!! Whereas, in recent years it looked like an amateur photography group page put together by 1st Year IT freshers at Oxford Brookes University (read 'Polytechnic' - Ed)!!! The confusion of ex-Amiga owners was further encouraged with simply blatant abuse of the heritage of the Classic Amiga! The 'About Amiga' page briefly explained the benefits of the Classic Amiga Technology and past triumphs in the same breath as AA/AA2 and the Snowman Maker and was a COMPLETE AND UTTER EMBARRASSMENT! These snide and money grabbing corporate tactics in no way built up the Amiga IP in any way beneficial to the Amiga community or the heritage of such a great machine!! To try and show any continuity between the work Amiga Inc were conducting and the past work Commodore and Amiga Technologies did was deceitful and wrong! This was a shell company set up to bring some credence to sub-mobile phone games!!!

I wish Amiga Inc had gone bust right after signing the AmigaOne/AmigaOS agreement, then Eyetech might still be alive (having more choice over what hardware to use) and Hyperion might have saved a fortune in legal costs. Other than the OS4.0/ AmigaOne decision (and even then they tried to ban the release of the MicroA1 ) they have completely messed up their remitt of relaunching the Amiga as a relevant brand in the 21st century. May the Amiga IP now go to someone who as actually used an Amiga in their regular out of hours life and who understands the potential the Amiga COMPUTER has as both hardware and software combined!!!!

Last edited by BigD on 10-Feb-2010 at 09:48 AM.

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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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Jacken 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 9:49:42
#182 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jul-2004
Posts: 150
From: Glimma / Sweden

@BigD

Quote:
Spinning off AmigaOS development to a third party was ONE good decision, but in the end they lawyers were brought in because of the badly written contract.


And how wrote that contract?

It all starts with a bad written contract.

_________________
AmigaOne G4 800Mhz, A1200TPPC 040/33 240Mhz, 2 A2000, A600,A600HD
A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
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opi 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 9:59:25
#183 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@Jacken

Quote:
And how wrote that contract? It all starts with a bad written contract.


Ben Hermans, of Hyperion and now A-Eon fame.

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Jacken 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:04:56
#184 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jul-2004
Posts: 150
From: Glimma / Sweden

@opi

Quote:
Ben Hermans, of Hyperion and now A-Eon fame.


I know.. :)

But It seems to me that some people forget this.

Next question!
And why would he write a so bad contract ?

_________________
AmigaOne G4 800Mhz, A1200TPPC 040/33 240Mhz, 2 A2000, A600,A600HD
A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:09:47
#185 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Cool_amigaN

Quote:

Cool_amigaN wrote:
@linnar

No, as I said, "probably", I cannot be sure but I would be betting on that.

There is no other reasonable explanation for a company's website to be down, without even a support message/ proper notice; "Back for maintenance" or "Be right back with new products/website" or something similar, expect if this company has already transferred most of its trademarks and has not been doing business for ages.

And because the IP might be still worthy (AMIGA), the domain will be worthy too. Amiga.org cost around 10,000.00 USD, Amiga.com will be much, much more.

Had I been Bill, I had sold the IP and Amiga.com. then had been able to live the rest of your life with just entertainment.
But so simple, it is not. Bill McEwen owns between 10-20% of Amiga.Inc rest is owned by others. Probably, it is now HAKI (www.hakia.com) owning the majority.
I speculate, but there are good reasons to believe it is so.

That there is no information on the Amiga Inc. web site that it will build a new home is not new. Every time Amiga Inc changed its design on the website, it has been in the same way, ie no communication about what is going on.

In the end, maybe it's that you say anyway, it closes the business!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Jacken 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:10:58
#186 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jul-2004
Posts: 150
From: Glimma / Sweden

@BigD

Quote:
I believe Bill had good intentions but that he was either incapable of delivering or was forced into a decade of fudges by Amiga Inc's investors!! This in no way excuses him of the responsibility of taking the Amiga brand backwards!!!


Question.. To that bad written contract you are refering to.

What was it that AmigaInc was incapable to deliver?
AmigaOS4?

Humm.. But then again, who was it that should do the port?
AmigaInc?

Hummm.. back to that bad contract again, i belive it says that someone else should do that....

_________________
AmigaOne G4 800Mhz, A1200TPPC 040/33 240Mhz, 2 A2000, A600,A600HD
A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
And yeap, it's my dog...16 years old in 2015

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:14:01
#187 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@polka.

Quote:

polka. wrote:
You do not have a neutral position.

That is your opinion.

Quote:

Quote:
With AA2 saw it really good but the time to produce a finished product has been too long for some unknown reason. I think the reason for the long wait is because they changed tactics when they realized that Hyperion has hogged the OS4 on their own behalf.


I rather believe that it was because they had nearly no employees (contrary to what McBill always claimed).

I've been thinking the same thing. but others speak for other causes. Perhaps we will never know.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Dandy 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:15:17
#188 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote:
@steril606

...
What I think is that you must use the correct and friendly style when talking about other people who themselves never expressed anything bad about others.



What do you think is worse:
Talking about other people in a bad style or stealing 50 Euros from me with the coupon fraud?

Quote:

linnar wrote:

Everyone, no matter who, must be treated with respect.



Sorry - but "respect" has to be earned.
So far McBill is getting what he deserves...

Quote:

linnar wrote:

...indicates great immaturity



What do you think indicate all the boast promises, announcements and frauds McBill committed?
Maturity?
Come on...

Quote:

linnar wrote:

...
I am critical of the Hyperion practice over the years and particularly the way they swallow up the Amiga Inc's rights.



Could you please be a bit more precise?
Exactly which of AInc's rights did they "swallow up"?

Quote:

linnar wrote:

...
because he wants to highlight the problem in a proper manner without involving emotions.



After all we're all human - and normal human beings basically are emotional.

Quote:

linnar wrote:

All people deserve proper treatment!
...



Yes, of course - a coarse chump needs to be split by a coarse wedge.
That's what I call proper treatment!

Quote:

linnar wrote:

I myself am very curious about what happens inside the walls of Amiga Inc.



Do you really think they're still alive?
Do you really think they have the money to pay for an office?

Quote:

linnar wrote:

They have really learned the lesson not to talk too much.



I rather tend to believe they're resistant to learning.

Quote:

linnar wrote:

It is quite quiet now.



What noise do you expect from a dead corps in its crypt?

Quote:

linnar wrote:

...
There are some indications that the ongoing activity
...



Zombies?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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SHADES 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:15:20
#189 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 706
From: Melbourne

@HammerD

Amiga and Amiga India the same, website down.
I wonder if this paints a worse picture of AMIGA rather than better. The world now knows, again, something is wrong. Perhaps it's not wise to invest etc.

Excuse me if i don't see this as a positive thing.

Last edited by SHADES on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:18 AM.
Last edited by SHADES on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:18 AM.

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Apple Hammer 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:22:29
#190 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jan-2010
Posts: 130
From: Unknown

For the first time ever, I am starting to believe that Amiga.inc is actually gone. At first I was buying into the explanation that it was probably just a problem with the server or something simple like that, but now I feel that too much time has passed to attribute the vanishing of the 'business' website to any kind of brief, fixable problem. Any organisation that considers itself a viable business would not have their website down for so long - certainly not without some kind of "back soon" information posted up. Even if they had a major catastrophe with their website data, they would at least post some kind of information for the front page.
More and more, it is looking increasingly likely that Amiga.inc is gone.

Am I sad? Well, yeah actually.

I would probably agree that Amiga.inc did *some* good for the Amiga in terms of OS4 and the AmigaOne machines. Would that have happened without them around? Well, who knows. But nobody can deny that they had quite a big influence on the chain of events that lead to us getting a newer version of the Amiga Operating System and some new machines to run it on.

I would also agree that for all the good Amiga.inc did, they equally matched it with bad. In fact, I'm not sure I'd disagree with someone who claimed they've done *more* bad than good. Amiga.inc, through Bill Mckewen, lied profusely to us on many occasions over the years. This is a fact. Some may jump to his defense and claim that he never lied, but instead was kept from delivering his promises by external factors outside of his control. But, I personally dismiss those claims. If the person in charge of an organisation makes a promise, he (or she) does so with absolute certainty that they can deliver. And if they do not deliver, then they are held accountable for their failure to deliver on their promises. This is not unreasonable at all. It goes with the responsibilities of the job - you don't make promises that you can't keep. And hey, we're not just talking about one screw up here, we're talking about a whole line of them. And, some of the promises made by Amiga.inc (through Bill Mckewen) were just plain outrageous in the first place. Anyone with half a brain could see that.

But yes, I'll still be sad if it does indeed transpire that Amiga.inc are gone. I can't say I'm sad for the people behind the screw-ups over the last decade, but I guess I'm feeling sad about the future prospects for the Amiga platform. The best thing would be if the Amiga brand, IP and domain could be acquired by a company who has genuine intent (and ability) to keep the platform moving forwards. But in a worst case the domain could be sold to some adult entertainment company. And then, I would suggest, we'll be even worse off than we were before Amiga.inc went. As unbelievable as that sounds.

I hope some good comes out of this. If Bill Mckewen really ever had any good intentions for the Amiga platform, then he'll make sure of that at the very least. He'll make sure the Amiga interests go in the right direction. If he lets it go to the dogs, then I guess even his claim to good intentions was a lie. We shall see!

As an aside, I wonder what would happen if the people behind one of the alternative Amiga operating systems got the rights to Amiga? That would be one hell of a twist indeed

Applehammer

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:27:49
#191 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@BigD

Part of what you write in your large messages do I set up on. The "Jacken" meet and develop further is about what I would also write.

What I do not agree with the Amiga Inc. web site appearance. The last was the most professional and follows the design language that was used when it set up. the site of the early 2000s, however, was quite amateurish. Then came a website that was messy. Regular users often think that business websites polished look bad. That is why many do not like the Amiga Inc's website.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:30:29
#192 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Dandy
I will reply to your messages later, no time now!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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BigD 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:32:26
#193 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5976
From: UK

@Jacken

Quote:
What was it that AmigaInc was incapable to deliver? AmigaOS4?


No, I mean products like OS5.0, which they claimed was better than Mac OSX but doesn't even exist IMHO! Also, a sponsorship deal with the Kent Center; the home to the Seattle Thunderbirds of Western Hockey League - Bill wasn't capable of following these deals through and it made him look a fool and made Amiga Inc into a laughing stock, a company that cannot be taken seriously!!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:36:25
#194 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Apple_hammer
"by Apple_hammer on 10-Feb-2010 10:22:29"

Wow!
Well spoken!
Agree with almost everything!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Dandy 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:39:45
#195 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@Apple_hammer

Quote:

Apple_hammer wrote:

...
I'm feeling sad about the future prospects for the Amiga platform.



I would think that if AInc should really be "dead" now, everybody can try to licence any Amiga rights he likes from the only owners - Gateway.

AInc just had an exclusive license from Gateway to use those rights, IIRC.

Quote:

Apple_hammer wrote:

The best thing would be if the Amiga brand, IP and domain could be acquired by a company who has genuine intent (and ability) to keep the platform moving forwards.
...



Who knows - perhaps Ben Herrmanns/Hyperion are already in negotiations with Gateway?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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Apple Hammer 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:46:08
#196 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jan-2010
Posts: 130
From: Unknown

@Dandy

Quote:
Who knows - perhaps Ben Herrmanns/Hyperion are already in negotiations with Gateway?


It is my personal opinion that this would be the best possible outcome. Is it a likely outcome? Hmmmm I honestly don't know. I hope so.

Applehammer

Last edited by Apple_hammer on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:52 AM.
Last edited by Apple_hammer on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:50 AM.

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Apple Hammer 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:47:07
#197 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Jan-2010
Posts: 130
From: Unknown

@linnar

Thanks. I could be talking a load of baloney but I'm just telling it like I see it!

Applehammer

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:47:55
#198 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9255
From: Unknown

@Dandy

Quote:
Who knows - perhaps Ben Herrmanns/Hyperion are already in negotiations with Gateway?


You don´t need Gateway to take Amiga website and rest of IP. Hyperion has all rights to AmigaOS it needs, what rests? Name (Amiga), web page (amiga.com) and some technology (AA - not a must for Hyperion...).

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Jacken 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:52:07
#199 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jul-2004
Posts: 150
From: Glimma / Sweden

@BigD

Quote:
No, I mean products like OS5.0, which they claimed was better than Mac OSX but doesn't even exist IMHO


And what had this with OS4 to do with?

Quote:
Bill wasn't capable of following these deals through and it made him look a fool and made Amiga Inc into a laughing stock, a company that cannot be taken seriously!!


So what, why don't say the same thing about the others?
They failed to deliver.. but not a word... why?

Because they where silent?


Last edited by Jacken on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:56 AM.

_________________
AmigaOne G4 800Mhz, A1200TPPC 040/33 240Mhz, 2 A2000, A600,A600HD
A500,A500+ and so on.....AmigaOS4.1....1500-2000 games!?
And yeap, it's my dog...16 years old in 2015

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stevieu 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 10-Feb-2010 10:52:35
#200 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 23-Apr-2003
Posts: 647
From: England, UK

@thread


@thread

Has anyone seen this (link posted over at amiga.org)?

Quote:

...
1998-1999: Gateway Scraps "Amiga" Brand

In 1998 former truck driver [5] Bill McEwen, also known as William Wallace McEwen XVI [6], was hired as an independent subcontractor by "Amiga, Inc." (South Dakota) [2]. The company was owned by Gateway who had, in turn, acquired some Amiga assets after the bankruptcy of Germany's ESCOM. The latter had retained some rights after Commodore-Amiga's 1994 liquidation, where it was bidding in agreement with some Asian companies, who in return received from ESCOM the rights over certain Asian territories [7].
...


It makes quite an interesting read about the dealings and doings of Amiga, Inc. (et al) over the past ten years (including linked documents).

And about the Amiga, Inc. website being down... Well, if they're gone, they're gone. Whoever they really are. I did believe to begin with, that Bill & Co would do something for the platform, but the smoke screen soon faded to show what really could be going on with the Amiga name/brand.

It can only be a positive thing to say goodbye to the past ten years (of pretty much nothing) and know that Amiga OS4.x is being developed and is in good hands (as proven so far).

Here's to the future

Steve



Last edited by stevieu on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:55 AM.
Last edited by stevieu on 10-Feb-2010 at 10:53 AM.

_________________
A1200T - OS4.0,OS3.9: 603e PPC 200mhz,060 50mhz, 256mb ram, FastATA MK-III, BVision, 160gb,20gb HDDs

A1200 - OS3.1: Blizzard IV 030, 64mb ram, 400mb HDD

OS4.x - Flying the AMIGA flag

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