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BigD 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 10:30:28
#421 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5959
From: UK

@bitman

Quote:
What should they use it for? They don't communicate with the community (atm.) and they can't manage to make a simple webpage for a-eon........


At the very least it could redirect to Hyperion's website, so that people looking for Amiga Computer products would be directed to the right place! Obviously, good use of AmigaOS/AmigaOne branding and information about the Amiga's history wouldn't go amiss either if the page was kept as a working page!

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SHADES 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:10:44
#422 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 706
From: Melbourne

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote:
@SHADES

I must correct you here: Amiga never paid Hyperion anything to support development of AmigaOS 4.

Not a penny of the voucher schemes was ever paid out to Hyperion or the AmigaOS developers.

Various entities paid a minor and insufficient amount to gain access to AmigaOS 4.0. These did NOT include any incarnation of Amiga Inc (Itec, Tachyon LLC).

The original 2001 agreement was not signed by Bill McEwen but by Fleecy Moss.

All of this is public record from the court documents.


Fair enough, I never said vouchers.

Did AMIGA employ your company or agree / make arrangements to have your company develop a new AMIGA OS for AMIGA? this is regardless of who approached who.

Was money exchanged, regardless of the amount for a product.

I understand Fleecy signed for it, not McEwen which has lead to a rather decent settlement.

I understand the amount of money was seriously inadequate and this is not the debate at hand . Whatever the price was, did money exchange hands under certain guise of AMIGA OS being developed?

I remember Fleecy talking about this so lets not mince words here.
Personally I would like to see further AMIGA products like OS4,5 and so forth.
I too believe your company should have received more money.

Tell me straight, does any of this "bad light / negative talk" cause your company further hardship or are you relieved and welcome this current trend of AMIGA being shown to be a bad investment.
After all, you are trying to sell and promote an AMIGA OS which I am very interested in and willing to forget about past "wrong doings" to myself by the previous?? AMIGA regime.

I just spent a whole heap of effort trying to convince some very burnt people here that AMIGA is not ALL bad here in an effort to gain some backing for the OS which was the only good out of a terrible situation.

i see it as we should all get behind the AMIGA name being Hyperion or not because we the only AMIGA community left.
Feel free to correct me here as I feel like I may have just wasted my time and I'll throw some flammable along with the others if it will help your sales and keep the AMIGA OS going because it's all that's left of a really great vision.

Last edited by SHADES on 17-Feb-2010 at 11:17 AM.

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BigD 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:43:35
#423 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5959
From: UK

@SHADES

Quote:
Tell me straight, does any of this "bad light / negative talk" cause your company further hardship or are you relieved and welcome this current trend of AMIGA being shown to be a bad investment.


I'm guessing Hyperion will distance themselves as much as they can from Amiga Inc's legacy and instead show themselves as the heirs to Commodore's, Amiga Technologies', Phase 5's and H&P's contribution to the platform. As far as I'm concerned Amiga Inc had nothing to do with the Amiga brand, they failed to produce an attractive website, T-Shirt or even any interesting Amiga DE/AA marketing material. They've made Amiga irrelevant and Hyperion need to complete distance themselves from this shell of a company which has turned about to be a toy for investment bankers!!!

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steril606 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:44:50
#424 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 11-Oct-2008
Posts: 462
From: Munich/Bavaria/Germany

@SHADES:

It seems you don't get the difference between people wanting AMIGA dead (which nobody does here), or seeing Amiga Inc dead, which seems to be the common opinion here.

Amiga inc is not Amiga and vice versa.

And for the public view of these things, I think after all that bull McBill stated over the last years, it's hard to damage it any further.

I'd call this a fresh start, and let's see what A-Eon/Hyperion makes out of it..


Good times...

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SHADES 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:51:07
#425 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 706
From: Melbourne

@steril606

Quote:

steril606 wrote:
@SHADES:

It seems you don't get the difference between people wanting AMIGA dead (which nobody does here), or seeing Amiga Inc dead, which seems to be the common opinion here.

Amiga inc is not Amiga and vice versa.

And for the public view of these things, I think after all that bull McBill stated over the last years, it's hard to damage it any further.

I'd call this a fresh start, and let's see what A-Eon/Hyperion makes out of it..


Good times...


Hey, I hope you're right, cause I saw no AMIGA to the public eye as a bad thing.

IF Hyperion get the name and continue, great, if not, going to be a hard time selling it as no one can find it and if they do really look, they will find a lot of very unhappy customers.

If it was my business,and my product, i'd be in damage control mode. Mind you, hope I never make such lousy decisions

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SHADES 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 11:52:32
#426 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 706
From: Melbourne

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
Tell me straight, does any of this "bad light / negative talk" cause your company further hardship or are you relieved and welcome this current trend of AMIGA being shown to be a bad investment.


I'm guessing Hyperion will distance themselves as much as they can from Amiga Inc's legacy and instead show themselves as the heirs to Commodore's, Amiga Technologies', Phase 5's and H&P's contribution to the platform. As far as I'm concerned Amiga Inc had nothing to do with the Amiga brand, they failed to produce an attractive website, T-Shirt or even any interesting Amiga DE/AA marketing material. They've made Amiga irrelevant and Hyperion need to complete distance themselves from this shell of a company which has turned about to be a toy for investment bankers!!!


Well then, that means dropping the AMIGA name as well. Way too much negative talk around it.

Last edited by SHADES on 17-Feb-2010 at 11:55 AM.

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 12:05:06
#427 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown


Most people who kept up with this circus should know that it transferred quite a bit money between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion. I wonder how it was initially intended to Hyperion would be paid through the sale of AmigaOS and Amiga Inc could get a part owner of the concept. Well, it's over run now and not much to talk about anymore.

It ought to be interesting at the moment is how the AmigaOS can come back to the market. It is nostalgic with their own machines and their specifications. But there is no way to mass of users. It goes through inexpensive hardware that definitely is the x86.
A middle ground is to build Amiga design (recall Connodore-Amiga) boxes with contents of the x86 with perhaps some little thing that is specific to the Amiga.

One can also wonder what Amiga Inc has plans ... (to keep to the thread)


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SHADES 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 12:32:45
#428 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 706
From: Melbourne

@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote:

Most people who kept up with this circus should know that it transferred quite a bit money between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion. I wonder how it was initially intended to Hyperion would be paid through the sale of AmigaOS and Amiga Inc could get a part owner of the concept. Well, it's over run now and not much to talk about anymore.

It ought to be interesting at the moment is how the AmigaOS can come back to the market. It is nostalgic with their own machines and their specifications. But there is no way to mass of users. It goes through inexpensive hardware that definitely is the x86.
A middle ground is to build Amiga design (recall Connodore-Amiga) boxes with contents of the x86 with perhaps some little thing that is specific to the Amiga.

One can also wonder what Amiga Inc has plans ... (to keep to the thread)




Meh, no idea, but the AMIGA name, the brand itself is getting more and more tarnished every day by the looks of things. Even their own community spit the brand name out in disgust.

Who'd in their right mind would want to buy in to that.

Personally, I want AMIGA and the OS to survive, it doesn't have to be under McEwen or whoever everyone is so peeved at. I remember it as Jay Minor first envisioned and good times / use I have had. Keeps me ok with what I have spent over the years on it.
Heck i bought WinUAE to keep using it as the original H/W got too slow and expensive for my needs.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 14:24:29
#429 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote:
@fairlanefastback

For me, it is obvious that the money was used for the operation of the company. Equally obvious is it that Penttis's friend was with and invested in the company and chose this particular method.
Otherwise, no major issues for me more than you can see how the operation paid for at the time.


Why is it obvious to you that this occurred when no products or developments came of the investment? Lets remember Prokom is a publicly traded company. Not only did Amiga never show anything from this money, but neither has Prokom to its investors.

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 16:12:18
#430 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@SHADES

Quote:

SHADES wrote:
@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote:

Most people who kept up with this circus should know that it transferred quite a bit money between Amiga Inc. and Hyperion. I wonder how it was initially intended to Hyperion would be paid through the sale of AmigaOS and Amiga Inc could get a part owner of the concept. Well, it's over run now and not much to talk about anymore.

It ought to be interesting at the moment is how the AmigaOS can come back to the market. It is nostalgic with their own machines and their specifications. But there is no way to mass of users. It goes through inexpensive hardware that definitely is the x86.
A middle ground is to build Amiga design (recall Connodore-Amiga) boxes with contents of the x86 with perhaps some little thing that is specific to the Amiga.

One can also wonder what Amiga Inc has plans ... (to keep to the thread)




Meh, no idea, but the AMIGA name, the brand itself is getting more and more tarnished every day by the looks of things. Even their own community spit the brand name out in disgust.

Who'd in their right mind would want to buy in to that.

Personally, I want AMIGA and the OS to survive, it doesn't have to be under McEwen or whoever everyone is so peeved at. I remember it as Jay Minor first envisioned and good times / use I have had. Keeps me ok with what I have spent over the years on it.
Heck i bought WinUAE to keep using it as the original H/W got too slow and expensive for my needs.

I do not think the name "Amiga" associated with computers is tarnished. There are very few, perhaps a few hundred and a maximum of a few thousand, following the debate.
Those who have lots of money today are mostly those who were in just the right age for the Commodore Amiga. Thus, those who can pay for the company or be investors often have themselves grown up with the Amiga.

I think Hyperion has done a good job with AmigaOS, no doubt about it. I also think Amiga Inc are not as guilty of everything that happened that should have happened, and in particular, Bill McEwen innocent. It is not easy to fall into the hands of capitalists who have different views of what is happening and things should be. I think, on the contrary, that without Bill McEwen, we had not had an AmigaOS today or little development of OS3.1, either. Definitely was not Amiga Inc. survived as long as it did without him. Therefore, I would say that, preferably a Amiga Inc. but not investors. May seem a contradiction, but having a ready-AA2, it could go.

We do not know what Hyperion and Amiga Inc, in its written agreements. Maybe it's the best thing for the Amiga.

When Amiga Inc. is found again, we may have the answer?

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Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 16:19:15
#431 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote:
@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote:
@fairlanefastback

For me, it is obvious that the money was used for the operation of the company. Equally obvious is it that Penttis's friend was with and invested in the company and chose this particular method.
Otherwise, no major issues for me more than you can see how the operation paid for at the time.


Why is it obvious to you that this occurred when no products or developments came of the investment? Lets remember Prokom is a publicly traded company. Not only did Amiga never show anything from this money, but neither has Prokom to its investors.

We do not know if they had a few developers, then, so it is difficult to know if they had something going on. Otherwise, it need not be any contradiction.

When Procom existed in name as they had in their annual report on the purchase of the Amiga shares and what they wanted with it. But then PROCOM merged with the other company (which I do not remember the name) so there is no annual report to go, I can not find it anymore.
Is there anything in particular you think that money spent on?

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 16:42:45
#432 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@linnar

Quote:
I also think Amiga Inc are not as guilty of everything that happened that should have happened, and in particular, Bill McEwen innocent. It is not easy to fall into the hands of capitalists who have different views of what is happening and things should be.


Right. You're talking about Pentti and Krauze etal again, right?

Good. Now we can stop the argument about whether it's good or bad for AI to survive then. AI IS those very capitalists you just seemingly spoke ill of in order to claim Bill's innocence. You can't have it both ways.

Garry Hare could make all of this clear to you, but alas, every individual involved in a lawsuit won by someone AI sues is under a gag order.
When a CEO (Hare) makes a decision and it gets "trumped" by an errand boy, what does that tell you about who's running the show?

#6

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 17:08:46
#433 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@linnar

Quote:

linnar wrote:
@fairlanefastback

We do not know if they had a few developers, then, so it is difficult to know if they had something going on. Otherwise, it need not be any contradiction.


But you said it was "obvious" that they were using the money (properly) for the company. Again, I'm asking how was that "obvious" to you?

Asseco is the new company, its still publicly traded and still makes annual reports.

-link-

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 17-Feb-2010 at 05:08 PM.

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BillE 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 17:32:05
#434 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Nov-2003
Posts: 1184
From: Northern Scotland

@SHADES

Quote:
OMG. Of course it is, happens on E-Bay every damm day and on a much larger scale


Yes there are criminals that use eBay, they get their accounts closed and banned from using it. I too have had bad eBay experiences but eventually got my money back.

What has this got to do with McEwen. Just because there are *other* criminals does not make him innocent.

If the man had one scrap of decency he would have done all he could to solve the voucher debacle.

Quote:
Hell I got my junky $2 T-shirt off them


So did I. It was not what I ordered. At a restaurant you would send back the wrong meal and either get the correct one or be refunded.

I ordered a voucher for money off the Amiga One when I bought one, it then changed into money off OS4 when it came out and when that came out they senty a T-shirt several years later. This is just not a good way to do business for any company. What really gets me is I paid money up front to be USED on the development of the A1 and OS4, none of it was. It was wasted on Bill's crazy schemes involving mobile phones, sports stadia and other such nonsense. All had NOTHING to do with the Amiga !


Quote:
Keep bagging AMIGA, let's see how much more this name can take before it's all gone



WTF does "bagging Amiga" mean in English ?

What has the AMIGA computer got to do with Amiga Inc, almost nothing. I single handedly have done more for the Amiga than Bill McEwen did. At least the Amiga OS4 has decent astronomy software which would have died on all platforms had I not rescued it and returned it to its origins, Amiga OS4. What has McEwen done, sold a few snowman games for mobile phones that are not even Amiga related.

So just what are you banging on about ?


Quote:
That's just the way to bolster up AMIGA! keep painting!


Painting what ? I guess English may not be your native language but at least try to make some sense.


We have AmigaOS4, the X1000 is on the way, the Amiga scene looks better than it has for years so what is the problem. OK Amiga Inc held it back for several years but now with that bunch of clowns out of the way things are getting better.

If anything Amiga Inc are the ones that have done more damage to the Amiga name than anyone else.

However the name is over rated, it is associated with blue/orange screens that runs a few games from floppy disk on a TV set by the majority of people out there. It is only us die hards that know what a good system the Amiga really is. So thankfully even though McEwan et al tried to muddy the Amiga name as much as they could it porably will not matter in the long run. The Amiga OS and Amiga systems will carry on regardless of Amiga Inc. Or should I say despite the worst efforts of Amiga Inc.

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 17:40:29
#435 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@linnar

Again, I repeat, Amiga Inc. (WA) nor Delaware contributed NOTHING financially or otherwise to the development of AmigaOS 4.x.

None of the voucher money ever ended up at Hyperion, Eyetech or the OS 4 developers.

OTOH, Hyperion did quite a bit of work for Amiga Inc. including doing a full software Mesa port for AmigaDE (for which an invoice was issued and paid may years later) and a 3D API for AmigaDE, work for which Hyperion never received any compensation.

This is a matter of public (court) record and not something which is open to factual challenge.

Hyperion did do contract work for KMOS Inc. when Amiga WA was still around, to port a demo version of AmigaOS 4.x to the IBM PDA reference design "Arctic" when Garry Hare ran KMOS. The rates charged were far below standard commercial rates for this type of highly specialised, low-level work (again, that contract is part of the court record).

This work was subsequently demoed to investors and resulted in a substantial cash investment by Tapul S.A. (share subscription of 1M USD at least - again public record).



Last edited by Hyperionmp on 17-Feb-2010 at 05:44 PM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 18:02:20
#436 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@Hyperionmp

Quote:
Hyperion did do contract work for KMOS Inc.


Right. And another piece of hardware that they kept from appearing also under the KMOS Inc.days:

The Mystery Device Running OS4

Ahh...but wait...it seems that the CEO was about to sign the documents when a certain individual squashed the deal. Oh well...[/end sarcasm]

#6

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SHADES 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 21:44:09
#437 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 706
From: Melbourne

@BillE

Quote:

BillE wrote:
@SHADES

Quote:
OMG. Of course it is, happens on E-Bay every damm day and on a much larger scale


Yes there are criminals that use eBay, they get their accounts closed and banned from using it. I too have had bad eBay experiences but eventually got my money back.


WTF does "bagging Amiga" mean in English ?

What has the AMIGA computer got to do with Amiga Inc, almost nothing. I single handedly have done more for the Amiga than Bill McEwen did. At least the Amiga OS4 has decent astronomy software which would have died on all platforms had I not rescued it and returned it to its origins, Amiga OS4. What has McEwen done, sold a few snowman games for mobile phones that are not even Amiga related.

So just what are you banging on about ?


Quote:
That's just the way to bolster up AMIGA! keep painting!


Painting what ? I guess English may not be your native language but at least try to make some sense.


We have AmigaOS4, the X1000 is on the way, the Amiga scene looks better than it has for years so what is the problem. OK Amiga Inc held it back for several years but now with that bunch of clowns out of the way things are getting better.

If anything Amiga Inc are the ones that have done more damage to the Amiga name than anyone else.

However the name is over rated, it is associated with blue/orange screens that runs a few games from floppy disk on a TV set by the majority of people out there. It is only us die hards that know what a good system the Amiga really is. So thankfully even though McEwan et al tried to muddy the Amiga name as much as they could it porably will not matter in the long run. The Amiga OS and Amiga systems will carry on regardless of Amiga Inc. Or should I say despite the worst efforts of Amiga Inc.


Google is your friend BilE if I can work out what WTF means, your clearly superior English skills can work out the slang of bagging something.

AMIGA, the name, brand is owned by AMIGA. Anything that HAS the AMIGA name in it is hurt by these discussions, certainly the closure of it's Website, and certainly people who say it should burn that it is a criminal company.
If you don't understand that, you have the English skill perhaps, but surely lack something else.
It's like everyone saying that Kia makes bad cars, don't buy them. Certainly has hurt many a company before, that's why they do recalls on faults and other damage control public statements.

We don't have AMIGA at the moment you dreamer. You can't even google AMIGA without ending up on a site that "baggs"

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fairlanefastback 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 21:48:45
#438 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@SHADES &BillE

Lets try to keep this discussion friendly please.

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ChrisH 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 21:52:19
#439 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@linnar
If the effort you put into defending Amiga Inc was put towards programming AmigaAnywhere/etc, I think you'd have something interesting to show by now

_________________
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I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 17-Feb-2010 22:53:04
#440 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@linnar

Quote:
I also think Amiga Inc are not as guilty of everything that happened that should have happened, and in particular, Bill McEwen innocent. It is not easy to fall into the hands of capitalists who have different views of what is happening and things should be.


Right. You're talking about Pentti and Krauze etal again, right?

Good. Now we can stop the argument about whether it's good or bad for AI to survive then. AI IS those very capitalists you just seemingly spoke ill of in order to claim Bill's innocence. You can't have it both ways.

Garry Hare could make all of this clear to you, but alas, every individual involved in a lawsuit won by someone AI sues is under a gag order.
When a CEO (Hare) makes a decision and it gets "trumped" by an errand boy, what does that tell you about who's running the show?

#6

Wrong. I am not talking seemingly good or bad about anyone. Kpatalister doing what they should do but sometimes it may go against what is good for others. Visionary talk a lot but can only achieve what he Tālr about by the capitalist. If visionary says one thing and the capitalist to another, it can give Mrak signals.

This does not mean that I think good or bad about someone, it just means the team may need to change seats on the player to the right person harbors in the right place.

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