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      /  Amiga.com down?
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pavlor 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 11:45:25
#641 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9254
From: Unknown

@linnar

Quote:
Jus the "Settlement Agreement" is what I am talking about. Is it public now? It was not before.


Settlement Agreement is the first document I linked (post 625)... Both documents were public since end of 2009.

Last edited by pavlor on 23-Nov-2010 at 11:45 AM.

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Wildstar128 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 12:06:06
#642 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2006
Posts: 178
From: Unknown

@linnar

Good point. I don't think for now... Amiga need to "own" AROS but perhaps they can make a distro of AROS. Keeping AROS core open but maybe make a custom desktop or something. Just like Icaros. While, this could be a transitional thing until Amiga Inc. (any any parties) develops an entirely new OS platform for new generation stuff, they can still support AROS.

Amiga Inc. could also work on other things such as games and apps. It would be a smart thing for the immediate future.

Amiga Inc. wouldn't "own" AROS itself but own their own flavor / distro. at best.

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 13:11:28
#643 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9254
From: Unknown

@Wildstar128

Quote:
Amiga Inc. wouldn't "own" AROS itself but own their own flavor / distro. at best.


As I wrote, Amiga.Inc can´t sell computers with AROS. However they can fund AROS development... (I don´t think they will do that )

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 14:04:24
#644 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Wildstar128

#642

Yes, there is a twist on it I think. I can still not so much about AROS, but I understand that it is possible to have your own skin and their distributions.


What I'm looking for with my suggestions are:

1 - A growing Amiga Market

2 - A free distribution which can all stand around, work with, talk about and have fun with.

3 - A feeling that existed from 1985 to 1993


Item 2. It need not be a free distribution if it is "OS5" the case and if Amiga Inc. can develop it according to the wishes of the people around. Altera Relatively to Amiga Inc. released the free development of a free group.
The free option is usually best for many reasons. One of the reasons is that the dependence of a company reduces considering bankruptcy, etc.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 14:06:40
#645 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Wildstar128

Quote:
Amiga Inc. wouldn't "own" AROS itself but own their own flavor / distro. at best.


As I wrote, Amiga.Inc can´t sell computers with AROS. However they can fund AROS development... (I don´t think they will do that )


It is enough that they license the name "Amiga Workbench" to AROS.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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djrikki 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 16:05:15
#646 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2010
Posts: 2077
From: Grimsby, UK

@linnar

Ah well sorry to stop you two in your tracks there, Hyperion owns AmigaOS, owns the source code for AmigaOS, owns the Workbench which is of course the visual front-end of the OS that everyone sees when they boot up. It has no attachments, licenses or similar with Amiga Inc (if it even exists) - they own the operating system and have an exclusive, perpetual worldwide right (not license) to AmigaOS.

Nonetheless feel free to continue with your hypothetical 'what if' dialogue if that floats your boat.

_________________

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 17:04:47
#647 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9254
From: Unknown

@linnar

Quote:
It is enough that they license the name "Amiga Workbench" to AROS.


Yes, they can... if the price is right. (Do you think Amiga.Inc gives licences for free?)

However, this would be some work for lawyers of Hyperion - is licencing Amiga name for AROS the same as "marketing product similar to OS4"? I don´t think there is enough money in the AROS community to answer such question (it will probably never happen...).

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 17:07:03
#648 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9254
From: Unknown

@djrikki

Quote:
owns the source code for AmigaOS


Owns source code for AmigaOS 4, not AmigaOS 3 (it is only exclusive licence).

Quote:
owns the Workbench


Owns what we call Workbench, not "Workbench" name itself.

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 18:21:57
#649 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@djrikki

Quote:

djrikki wrote:
@linnar

Ah well sorry to stop you two in your tracks there, Hyperion owns AmigaOS, owns the source code for AmigaOS, owns the Workbench which is of course the visual front-end of the OS that everyone sees when they boot up. It has no attachments, licenses or similar with Amiga Inc (if it even exists) - they own the operating system and have an exclusive, perpetual worldwide right (not license) to AmigaOS.

Nonetheless feel free to continue with your hypothetical 'what if' dialogue if that floats your boat.

I doubt that Hyperion has the right to "Workbench" which is merely an example of a name to Amiga x86OS ........ hmmm ... "x86OS" ... why not!

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 18:26:01
#650 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@linnar

Quote:
It is enough that they license the name "Amiga Workbench" to AROS.


Yes, they can... if the price is right. (Do you think Amiga.Inc gives licences for free?)

However, this would be some work for lawyers of Hyperion - is licencing Amiga name for AROS the same as "marketing product similar to OS4"? I don´t think there is enough money in the AROS community to answer such question (it will probably never happen...).

I do not think there is an economic problem.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 18:36:26
#651 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9254
From: Unknown

@linnar

Quote:
I do not think there is an economic problem.


Sure, there is no economic problem. You want licence from Amiga.Inc? If you have enough money, then it is no problem...

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Wildstar128 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 19:13:37
#652 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2006
Posts: 178
From: Unknown

@djrikki

Not exactly....

Hyperion has a license (and apparently reinforced) of 3.1 and after while AMiga Inc. technically owns it. However, pre-3.1 base code is own by Amiga. There is a certain degree of code progression change since 3.1. There is a certain base line that can be taken from 1.0 (with a degree of code modification) that Amiga Inc. can do.

There is also a significant amount of other options as well.

The base-line code used and translated under AmigaAPI would and can constitute a degree of significant code difference. Considering also significantly different hardware platforms on contemporary PC hw and oher such.

Last edited by Wildstar128 on 23-Nov-2010 at 07:28 PM.

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Wildstar128 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 20:07:12
#653 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2006
Posts: 178
From: Unknown

Excerpt of US Copyright Law:

Some key definitions:

“Copyright owner”, with respect to any one of the exclusive rights comprised in a copyright, refers to the owner of that particular right.

A work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time; where a work is prepared over a period of time, the portion of it that has been fixed at any particular time constitutes the work as of that time, and where the work has been prepared in different versions, each version constitutes a separate work.

A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.

NOTE:
A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.

US Copyright Law:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/

102. Subject matter of copyright: In general28
(a) Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. Works of authorship include the following categories:

(1) literary works;

(2) musical works, including any accompanying words;

(3) dramatic works, including any accompanying music;

(4) pantomimes and choreographic works;

(5) pictorial, graphic, and sculptural works;

(6) motion pictures and other audiovisual works;

(7) sound recordings; and

(8) architectural works.

(b) In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle, or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated, or embodied in such work.



103. Subject matter of copyright: Compilations and derivative works
(a) The subject matter of copyright as specified by section 102 includes compilations and derivative works, but protection for a work employing preexisting material in which copyright subsists does not extend to any part of the work in which such material has been used unlawfully.

(b) The copyright in a compilation or derivative work extends only to the material contributed by the author of such work, as distinguished from the preexisting material employed in the work, and does not imply any exclusive right in the preexisting material. The copyright in such work is independent of, and does not affect or enlarge the scope, duration, ownership, or subsistence of, any copyright protection in the preexisting material.



Any work on the scope bases of Workbench 1.x base line has substantial differences to 3.x and 4.x line. Re-writing it on the AA platform with other changes could constitute some significant difference to AOS 4.x code base.

There are options to deal with things. What is IMPORTANT is that work that constitutes an original work of authorship IS work with substantial difference. It will fall into a new copyright vs. that of an existing copyright. If the work is substantially re-written from the grounds up, with the base line concept, it becomes a new work. Pre-existing patents are expiring if not already have on some - so they are leaving scope of protectability.

So, Amiga Inc. can ultimately still make derivative work of substantial changes.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap2.html#203

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/usc_sup_01_11.html

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pavlor 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 20:33:17
#654 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9254
From: Unknown

@Wildstar128

Quote:
Any work on the scope bases of Workbench 1.x base line has substantial differences to 3.x and 4.x line.


No...

"Similarity" according to the Settlement Agreement is defined by the help of following documents:
The AmigaDOS Manual, 3rd edition
Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual "Libraries", 3rd edition
Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual "Devices", 3rd edition
Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual "Includes and Autodocs", 3rd edition

Anything that follows these guidelines (eg. also OS1.x) can´t be marketed by Amiga.Inc (except some specified uses - eg. game bundles with ROMs).

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 22:32:31
#655 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Wildstar128

Quote:
Any work on the scope bases of Workbench 1.x base line has substantial differences to 3.x and 4.x line.


No...

"Similarity" according to the Settlement Agreement is defined by the help of following documents:
The AmigaDOS Manual, 3rd edition
Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual "Libraries", 3rd edition
Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual "Devices", 3rd edition
Amiga ROM Kernel Reference Manual "Includes and Autodocs", 3rd edition

Anything that follows these guidelines (eg. also OS1.x) can´t be marketed by Amiga.Inc (except some specified uses - eg. game bundles with ROMs).

For my part:

I still have not seen any document or text in a document that prevents Amiga Inc to let AROS use the name "Workbench".

Possible Amiga Inc will not use code that you describe, but it's not the point, the point is an Amiga Inc-owned names to AROS.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 22:37:38
#656 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@linnar

Quote:
I do not think there is an economic problem.


Sure, there is no economic problem. You want licence from Amiga.Inc? If you have enough money, then it is no problem...

If it is about money and AROS is the proposed new AmogaOS for x86, I think that the money be raised soon. CommodoreUSA can probably provide a lot. I will put money in that account also, etc..

So I think the ekomomiska obstacle is the small hurdle.

The big hurdle is getting the Amiga Inc, AROS, and the Commodoreusa at the same table.

_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 23-Nov-2010 22:42:51
#657 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@Amiga Inc
@AROS
@CommedoreUSA

Amiga's future as a major player in the market will mean the great moment when the Amiga Inc, AROS, and Commodoreusa sit down together to map out the future.


Men and women of Amiga Inc, AROS, and Commodoreusa can assist you with it so you have made history.


_________________
There are very interesting in all languages.
http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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Wildstar128 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 24-Nov-2010 0:02:39
#658 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2006
Posts: 178
From: Unknown

@pavlor

ok., (will check something in the Copyright law)

Last edited by Wildstar128 on 24-Nov-2010 at 12:03 AM.
Last edited by Wildstar128 on 24-Nov-2010 at 12:02 AM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 27-Dec-2010 4:09:43
#659 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11259
From: In the village

@Wildstar128

Quote:
ok., (will check something in the Copyright law)


Any progress?

Oh..and what do you think about Amiga Inc's website still referring to AmigaOS as if it is their product?

http://www.amiga.com/sales/index.php?p=brand

Under the heading:

Quote:
LET'S TALK ABOUT


I find that somewhat odd.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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damocles 
Re: Amiga.com down?
Posted on 27-Dec-2010 13:17:16
#660 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
As I wrote, Amiga.Inc can´t sell computers with AROS. However they can fund AROS development... (I don´t think they will do that )


I think you need to reread that agreement again.

_________________
Dammy

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