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tomazkid 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 18:05:20
#41 ]
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Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

@damocles

A lot of re-branding in all kind of stuff these days.
Buy a fridge, vacuum cleaner, pre-built IBM-clone PC, car, phone, almost anything, and you can find an exact copy to, only the brand is different.

So what is so special about re-branding a MAI Teron mobo?

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fairlanefastback 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 18:20:37
#42 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
Commodore haven't officially launched yet.


Then why are they selling things on their website already?

Quote:
Also, what about international orders? Do Cybernet even do international orders? There's no "buy" and "checkout" button worth a damn on their website.


They say turn around for internet submitted quotes is 1 business day, there is no quantity minimum listed for a quote. If you want a quote more quickly they offer a sales person chant right off the home page as well as a direct toll free number.

That may not be as easy as most sites, but it hardly sounds complicated either.

Quote:
Commodore is selling to a consumer market of course. People who used Commodore64s in their youth, are in the market for a PC, and are attracted to the nostalgia and novelty aspects of it. You guys seem to think Commodore has to be positioned to take over the world. It's a specific niche, that will hopefully be enough to grow from.


Even if they are trying to sell to a different market they are trying to sell the same goods. I also find it a bit odd they put in a hard to read font at the smallest size in a hard to read color against the background of the main page that their continued usage of the name is pending licensing.

For all we know you can buy Cybernet's PC cheaper from them than you can from Commodore USA.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-May-2010 at 06:21 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 18:24:49
#43 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@BigBentheAussie

Also you can buy Cybernet boxes from resellers:

http://www.axiontech.com/prdt.php?item=80915

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 18:35:52
#44 ]
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@fairlanefastback

Quote:
Then why are they selling things on their website already?

Because things are in place to start...so why wait. Stock is available now. It also allows delivery processes to be perfected before the official launch.

By all means go get a Cybernet PC if that is what you want.
If someone sees Commodore marketing and instead decides to buy a CybernetPC then that's their prerogative, more power to them. I nearly bought one myself. I couldn't bring myself to leave a quote though, which implies a volume order. The Commodore involvement clinched the deal for me. Commodore will be advertising some time soon to sell their product under *their* brand name. If you don't care about the brand, you know about Cybernet, and want to get it cheaper, then by all means go and get a CybernetPC. You always pay a premium for a brand, as well as other overheads that go along with retail.


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BigBentheAussie 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 18:38:51
#45 ]
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Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@fairlanefastback

Yep. Lower spec. Pentium 4. Comes with a 19" monitor though.
If you like the deals go for it. Or don't.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 18:42:36
#46 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@BigBentheAussie

But you don't even know if they will get to keep the brand. They have not secured the licensing last we heard.

And what is the difference between you affixing a Commodore sticker on a Cybernet PC that you make yourself vs. you doing it with a sticker commissioned by Barry Altman (if he is allowed to send you one at some point)?

if Barry does not get the licensing will you no longer be interested?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-May-2010 at 06:44 PM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-May-2010 at 06:43 PM.

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vidarh 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 18:45:53
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2010
Posts: 580
From: London, UK (ex-pat; originally from Norway)

@ruben

Quote:
Not necessarily, but I would expect something that would make them worth of using the Commodore name.


Commodore PC10 etc... Don't get on a high horse about the "Commodore name" - while we remember them for the C64 and the Amiga, they also sold boring IBM PC clones with absolutely nothing innovative about them.

Quote:
Exactly what is this company bringing to the table? If all they're doing is placing a sticker in an existing product, I'm sorry, but I don't see much value in that.


Exactly like most of the PC "manufacturers" then.

And you might not see the value of a brand, but look at products like the Acer Ferrari line of laptops - one of Acer's best selling ranges. What did Ferrari bring to the table? Just the name and logo.

Commodore still has a brand with some degree of value in certain demographics in a few markets. Probably not enough to make it big, but certainly enough to carve out a small niche.

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ruben 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 18:46:09
#48 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 364
From: Portugal

@BigBentheAussie

Here's a suggestion if you're serious about this:
Create a product line of classic/retro C= cases that replicate the look of C64,A500,A1200, etc... but make it compatible with nano/mini-itx form factors, with enough space for a DVD drive and hard disk. Either sell only the case and let me buy the hardware elsewhere or make sure I can build my own configuration.
That would be a cool product which should be feasible in terms of licensing and production, and very appealing to the computer hobbyist.

However, I'd suggest you'd be very careful about who you're dealing with before you partner with them.

This whole ordeal seems very dubious to say the least. I'm trying to believe that this isn't just the antics of some bozo trying an easy cash in on a name he doesn't own, selling products he didn't make. But honestly, that's what it looks like...

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 19:07:04
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@ruben

Quote:
Create a product line of classic/retro C= cases that replicate the look of C64,A500,A1200, etc... but make it compatible with nano/mini-itx form factors, with enough space for a DVD drive and hard disk. Either sell only the case and let me buy the hardware elsewhere or make sure I can build my own configuration. That would be a cool product which should be feasible in terms of licensing and production, and very appealing to the computer hobbyist.

I would love to see cases more reminiscent of those famous models.
I believe Commodore will be in a position to do that some time in the future.
But you have to start somewhere.
Modifying the existing case design, retooling the factory or even starting from scratch, all these things cost a lot of money, which will have to come from sales.

Why would Commodore sell you a case without the insides? Who does that for the consumer? Does ASUS? Dell? Apple? We're talking about a branded computer.
Where were Commodore ever known to do that sort of thing?
I know you..... you just want to stick your SAM in it!!!
Honestly, they are sort of following Apple's, and indeed the past Commodore's approach, of selling complete systems. You want a junk PC, go down to your corner store. You want a hobby keyboard to shove in whatever you want? I suggest you look up TheDaddy.

Thanks for your concern. The only thing I am wasting, it would seem, is my time on this forum. Maybe it is very Australian of me to give someone a fair go before I call them a bozo. You make it seem as though selling products you didn't make is a crime. Like you have to make everything yourself. If you ever sold computers, did you make all those components yourself before you stuck the sticker of your shop on it (as a lot of them do). I dare say there'd be a fair few companies in prison if you followed that rule. Big ones too.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 28-May-2010 at 07:08 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 19:32:26
#50 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
Where were Commodore ever known to do that sort of thing?


But this is not the same Commodore. And last we heard they don't have a license to use the name yet.

Quote:
Commodore® is the trademark of Commodore Licensing, GV, registered in the U.S. and other countries. Logo used with permission, pending licensing rights, and used or illustrative purposes only.


The "neato" factor sounds like it would be diminished for you if Barry had to come back to you at some point and say "sorry mate I won't be able to send you that Commodore sticker, my licensing deal fell through".

I think if his deal was inked then more people might be apt to throw him some sales in hopes that he will grow the brand again. And others I think are already a little soured to Barry's apparent mis-characterization of using the name in the first place:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/12/commodore-gaming-disavows-commodore-usa-and-its-decals/



Last edited by fairlanefastback on 28-May-2010 at 07:33 PM.

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jas_mc 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 20:03:35
#51 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

fairlanefastback made a good point when he asked how it would be different if you just bought a Cybernet PC and stuck your own sticker on it. Crucially, you WILL be buying a Cybernet PC even if you get that Commodore Phoenix. It's just you'll be getting it from someone who's pretending it's something else.

That's a bit different to most of the rebranding that goes on elsewhere. If I buy an Acer laptop and it turns out that a different company made it and still sell the same product under their own brand name, then I don't care. Why? Because a PC laptop is purely a functional thing for me. I don't have any attachment to any of the brands and frankly don't care if it says Fanny Hair on it. Equally, fridges, commodities... it's not like your eyes light up at the thought of having a Hotpoint fridge freezer, and then your heart falls when you realise that the only "Hotpoint" thing about it is the badge they've slapped on the door. You don't really care because you didn't want a Hotpoint especially, you just wanted a good, competitively priced fridge.

The other example you gave is the Ferrari laptop. That's clearly just a gimmick because Ferrari make cars, not computers. It's like designer undies with the playboy bunny on them (I tell you what tho' - at least the guys who make those aren't selling you a pair of plain boxers and promising to send you an iron-on bunny transfer when they finally sort out the licensing!).

I'm not writing this guy off as a bozo, I think it's a stroke of genius and won't begrudge him making a few shekels out of it as long as the people who do buy the Cybernet PCs from him are happy. But it's not impressed me personally because it isn't doing anything that I couldn't literally just do myself. We're talking about putting a sticker... on a computer. In fact, it looks like I'd have to manually put the sticker on myself even if I bought it from Commodore USA! If he'd managed to physically customise them just a little, with an embossed logo and a chicken head instead of the Windows key, then I might have bought one as a novelty, but applying self-adhesive decals to products that are freely available elsewhere is something I can do myself.

Lastly, it's sad, but while the blogosphere was quite positive about this initially, the enterprise attracted quite a bit of derision when it turned out what exactly the business model was (buy obscure PC-in-keyboard models, call them the Commodore Something, act as if they're a new product that you've come up with yourself, promise stickers). If this is genuinely a stepping stone to something more meaningful, then great, I look forward to it... and hope he makes enough money to go ahead with it... but what if the nature of this "first phase" actually turns people off the brand and damages his rep?

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 20:19:36
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@jas_mc

To clarify for the umpteenth time. They disavow Commodore USA and its decals, because Commodore Gaming *don't* actually have the rights to give to Commodore USA. A so-called journalist comes along and Commodore Gaming goes all Shultz "I know nuttink... nuttink". And this is suddenly a headline. WTF. Now that Commodore USA is talking to the right people, has talked to the right people, and only needs to sign on the dotted line, why are we still talking about this? The contract is all there, they're just working out the little details, options and exact figures. These things don't seem to go as snappy as everyone would like and I am sure lawyers make a killing from these kinds of things. It's only a couple of weeks away, for crying out loud.

They already have an arrangement for the logos in the meantime, and the logos are pre-attached to the machine now. There are no stickers that you need to stick on yourself. You are referring to what was on the site from a couple of months ago and those units were considered pre-orders. Are you suggesting it is wrong to tell people what is going on and what to expect? That message hasn't been there for at least the last month. To all intents and purposes the trademark negotiations are not really holding up anything. It will be all wrapped up well before the official launch Commodore are considering.

You can go and pull the sticker off you're Commdore64 or make your own. I don't care. Just see how far you get trying to sell your own PCs as a Commodore later. You'll get sued to smithereens. Commodore USA won't. Can I spell it out any clearer for you?

Your problem with Commodore USA is your insane expectations. This is not the microcomputer era. Companies rarely build their own unique hardware like the Amiga or the Commodore 64. The computer is a commodity. Even Apple's machines are just commodities. Why raise the bar so high that no company could ever make it, let alone a new Commodore?

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 28-May-2010 at 08:20 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 20:32:56
#53 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:
Now that Commodore USA is talking to the right people, has talked to the right people, and only needs to sign on the dotted line, why are we still talking about this? The contract is all there, they're just working out the little details, options and exact figures.


I don't recall it being public knowledge that the deal is nearly done. The last we heard they only just started talking to the proper folks, this after they had advertised themselves as Commodore for a bit with no permission at all.

If you have new news on this I am sure people are open to hearing it.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 20:42:23
#54 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@fairlanefastback

Quote:
I don't recall it being public knowledge that the deal is nearly done. The last we heard they only just started talking to the proper folks, this after they had advertised themselves as Commodore for a bit with no permission at all.

If you have new news on this I am sure people are open to hearing it.


I'm sure you and I will hear about it at the same time.
There'll be singing from the roof tops.
I just told you what I've been told is happening. Either take it from me or don't.
Even if Commodore USA announce it on their website you probably won't even believe it.
What can I say? Edit: I'm off to bed.

Last edited by BigBentheAussie on 28-May-2010 at 08:44 PM.

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fairlanefastback 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 20:48:29
#55 ]
Team Member
Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@BigBentheAussie

I have a feeling that you are forgetting that its you that has been emailing back and forth with Barry and not the rest of us along with you. You seemed offended that anyone had questions, when they did not know what you know because of the communications you have been having.

Its rather presumptive for you to say I "probably won't even believe it" if they announce inking a deal. Frankly I'm not too worried about that. If they lie I suspect it will be found out quickly and reported on engadget if that happens.

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jas_mc 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 21:05:41
#56 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

I didn't mention Commodore Gaming, and yes, I'm well aware that it was referred to Commodore BV since Commodore Gaming can only sub-licence the Commodore brand for gaming projects. I guess when you do your unboxing vid to reveal a gleaming Cybernet PC with the chicken head logo on it, I'll be eating my words, but until we see that I'll remain sceptical. I'll do you a deal: I will eat my words if you make that vid, but I want you to eat your words if your Commodore-badged ZPC never arrives.

Re: "Your problem with Commodore USA is your insane expectations." Rubbish, you've completely misjudged what I expect. My expectations are extremely lowly. I'm not expecting someone to make custom hardware or a new operating system or anything like that. But if you're going to call something a Commodore, it has to be unique enough to justify having its own name (or else it's a completely meaningless bit of rebranding).

Stick a regular PC inside a custom keyboard case that's all your own work and actually looks like an old model? Fine, a lot of us would love that. Call it a Commodore. Or what about taking a Cybernet PC and slapping a Commodore sticker on it, but pre-installing a bunch of emulators, bundling it with old school joysticks, and setting it up so it can load old games straight from the disk and play them in full screen mode? That'd be awesome too, I'd buy one of those. In that case, "Commodore Phoenix" would describe a unique combination of pre-existing hardware and software that saved users the effort of assembling their own retro gaming experience. Hardly the most innovative product in the world, but at least it's a new thing, that stands on its own two feet enough to deserve its own name. But the point is he hasn't... done... anything.

At least, he hasn't done anything to the product that would justify renaming it. He's selling a ZPC along with permission to call it a Commodore.

I'm astonished that you assume I must have "insane expectations" because I think that something marketed as a new product, under an old name that people care about, shouldn't just be an existing product that you can easily buy under its original name. That's an enormous, unjustifiable leap.

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BigBentheAussie 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 21:11:00
#57 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

@fairlanefastback

I mentioned my contact with Commodore's owner at least as early as the top of Page 2.

Perhaps it is not you who wont believe, but there are people here that wont.
I can only repeat myself so many times.

If you'll forgive the indulgence, I leave you with a classic e-mail snippet from Steve Jobs in dealing with trolls.
Quote:

By the way, what have you done that’s so great? Do you create anything, or just criticize others work and belittle their motivations?

Classic. Now I really am off to bed. I hope you all had fun.

_________________
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fairlanefastback 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 21:15:55
#58 ]
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Joined: 22-Jun-2005
Posts: 4880
From: New York, USA

@BigBentheAussie

Actually I missed that sentence in your post #22 until you just pointed it out.

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Hammer 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 21:15:58
#59 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4270
From: Australia

@Troels

Refer to http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/AboutAMD/0,,51_52_10554,00.html

1985
. AMD is listed in Fortune 500 for the first time.
. ATI incorporates.
. ATI develops its first graphics controller and first graphics board product.
---

1986
. ATI secures major contract with Commodore Business Machines to supply 7000 chips per week.

You can thank CBM for helping ATI's initial GPU business.

Last edited by Hammer on 28-May-2010 at 09:19 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 28-May-2010 at 09:17 PM.

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persia 
Re: New Commodore Invictus from Commodore USA
Posted on 28-May-2010 21:17:23
#60 ]
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Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@jas_mc

It actually bears a rather striking resemblance to a SInclair QL

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