@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: I do NOT expect them to bother using 64-bits address space, since the OS can run using 32-bits just fine, and 64-bits doesn't provide much/any advantage (without loosing compatibility to all existing software). Also they would be splitting the market, since all existing OS4 hardware is 32-bit only, it would be commercial suicide.

While I agree that 64-bit support is not worth the effort right now, but it doesn't require breaking compatibility with any 32-bit software.

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2B v ~2B = ?

@SHADES

You've made your point, you can't afford it. Move on.
Buy a 460 or something instead.

Rude!

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@Seiya

Quote:

video is recorded at 15 fps, but application or games run very smooth.

Sheepshawer: Please, can you run Speedometer 4.0 and give us some numbers? I t would be interesting to see some benchmarks. Pentium I/II class games run good on your emulated machine, but for sensible emulation (for OS4 or MOS) we need Pentium 3 (or G3 500 MHz and more) performance.

Quote:

and the comments are not so good..

The Register comments: Some are positive, some negative, as usual...

superhire res images, just if anyone wants a really close up of the amiga

http://www.vincentperkins.com/AmigaNG/images/aeon.jpg

http://www.vincentperkins.com/AmigaNG/images/keyboard.jpg

http://www.vincentperkins.com/AmigaNG/images/Photo139.jpg

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@danwood Quote:

a PPC G4 AmigaOne XE with 1 gig of RAM ... will run OS 4.1 better than the SAMs anyway.

I very much doubt it will run OS4 better than a Sam460, due to Sam460 having much much faster memory & cpu bus speed, not to mention insane hard-disk speeds thanks to SATA. The G4 might do better in certain specialised tests that use Altivec, but how much software uses that?

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@tap Quote:

Would it be very wrong then to conclude that the first step in the process of getting more speed (on every kind of OS4.x supported hw) is well programmed preferable OS4.x native software?

I don't think you would be wrong:

We are getting lots of ports of software for OS4, and some of them are really nice. But quite a few of them also seem to perform poorly, because they are badly programmed and/or are unoptimised quick ports.

Some of the ports are also slow because our OpenGL (and maybe SDL) libraries could be faster.

The good news is that these problems are software issues, and so in time they will hopefully be solved for all existing hardware.


But I don't think OS4 native software is *required* (although it is preferred). We need to find better programmed software to port, or the the software must be modified to be less demanding, or the port may just need optimised properly (rather than being ported quickly), and OpenGL/SDL need improving.

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@frotz Quote:

While I agree that 64-bit support is not worth the effort right now, but it doesn't require breaking compatibility with any 32-bit software

Errrr, how do you propose that 32-bits apps on a 32-bit processor handle 64-bit address (pointers)?

Unlike Windows & Linux, AmigaOS does not have a per-process address space, it has a shared/unified address space. This means that if *any* program or API uses 64-bit addresses *all* of them must do it.

Last edited by ChrisH on 22-Jun-2010 at 12:17 PM.

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@Thread

The No.1 hit on Google for 'X1000 Amiga' has the following quote;

Quote:

Looks good, if it can run all the old Amiga software then it will sell for nostalgia reasons especially if its taken up by the big software houses like EA

This should force home the importance of perfecting the delivery of classic OCS and AGA games to encourage the uptake from ex-Amigans and nostalgic gamers! Ideally this should be in the form of a download webshop. Running custom chip banging games should become seamless in OS4.x as the increased CPU power should mean this is possible!

Last edited by BigD on 22-Jun-2010 at 12:27 PM.

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@BigD

I ABSOLUTELY agree. Even if the first goal is to continue the development of AmigaOS as a modern OS, classic emulation should be implemented by default, totally invisible to the user, as a backward compatibility.

If the ex-amiga user has to download, install and configure E-UAE, then put RunInUAE over it, in the end he feels like if he's using a PC, not an Amiga...

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@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @frotz Quote: While I agree that 64-bit support is not worth the effort right now, but it doesn't require breaking compatibility with any 32-bit software Errrr, how do you propose that 32-bits apps on a 32-bit processor handle 64-bit address (pointers)?

Restrict 32-bit apps to the bottom 4 Gb of memory.

32 and 64-bit processes can only share data in the bottom 4Gb memory. there will be a lot of duplication in the API so 64-bit apps can have access to it with all their memory.

In fact if you start ever 64-bit app with a token amount of memory space in the lower 4Gb, the only API calls that really need to be 64-bit are for memory allocation (it would be nice to have the others so that you don't have to keep track of what calls you are making, and 64-bit apps may have to do some switching between 32 and 64-bit mode).

Also, I reiterate, it is not worthwhile right now. IT should be a very low priority thing.

Last edited by frotz on 22-Jun-2010 at 06:03 PM.

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2B v ~2B = ?

@DAX

I don't blame the hardware nor the guys who port the software. At least they contribute to the growing base of software. But.. i won't believe the SAM440 is underpowered. As you say it is most likely caused bij bad programmed/ported software. IMO primary need for all is well programmed preferable OS4.x native software.

After that a good base of hardware of choice would be nice. I still think it is cruel needing a Ghz machine to run uncomplicated dated software in a normal workable speed.

Like the old days most software ran workable on the complete range of Amiga's from A1000 to A4000. Power needing apps benefited from the extra Mhz's. For example Image ran quite good workable on my A500 but rendered much faster on the A2000/030. Now we need the fastest of the fastest machine that doesn't come cheap just for normal use. That's my major issue.

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@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Thread The No.1 hit on Google for 'X1000 Amiga' has the following quote; Quote: Looks good, if it can run all the old Amiga software then it will sell for nostalgia reasons especially if its taken up by the big software houses like EA This should force home the importance of perfecting the delivery of classic OCS and AGA games to encourage the uptake from ex-Amigans and nostalgic gamers! Ideally this should be in the form of a download webshop. Running custom chip banging games should become seamless in OS4.x as the increased CPU power should mean this is possible!

That is something i agree 100% with as well. E-uae just wont cut it as it can be done better on a pc with windows and winuae. At the very least it should come bundled with something like runinuae and include all the necesarry roms and licenses.

@andres Quote:

If the ex-amiga user has to download, install and configure E-UAE, then put RunInUAE over it

RunInUAE installs & configures E-UAE for you! So all you need is RunInUAE, an AmigaForever CD, and a few minutes to install it

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On a positive note If the X1000 sells well and the XMOS technology is innovative and allows 3D rendering to be spead up, we will add support for XMOS in Aladdin 4D 6.0 or 7.0. The original creator of Aladdin 4D Greg Gorby wanted to support the Transputer project which XMOS descends from. We will respect Greg’s wishes and take advantage of this cool feature of the X1000.

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@ChrisH

How about an "X1000 Classic Pack" is sold as an add-on for the X1000?

It could contain a Catweasel card:

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=842

Amiga Forever 2010 for ROMS, E-UAE and RunInUAE.

There would be an installer than seamlessly installs all of this, so the user can simply insert an old disk and boot it.

Would be seriously cool!

Last edited by DBAlex on 25-Jun-2010 at 02:17 AM.

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@DiscreetFX

Quote:

f the X1000 sells well and the XMOS technology is innovative and allows 3D rendering to be spead up,

And how do you suppose to speed up 3D rendering with an FPU-less processor which has access to all of 64kB of memory? How much rendering have you done on a C64 recently?

"If Italy win the World Cup in South Africa, I'll release a a special 'Semper Gloria Forza' edition of Amithlon!"...

@umisef

You have us at a disadvantage here since we don't have a development environment for the X1000 or even an X1000. We will explore this when the product is finalized and available. Greg Gorby really wanted to do this with an earlier version of Aladdin 4D and the Transputer so there should be a way.

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@DiscreetFX

Quote:

Greg Gorby really wanted to do this with an earlier version of Aladdin 4D and the Transputer so there should be a way.

I don't follow. The T800 family of transputers had both an FPU and the ability to use external memory. It was designed to be, amongst other things, a general purpose CPU.

The XMOS stuff are embedded protocol processors.

How is what someone wanted to use the one for relevant to the question of whether the other could be used for the same purpose?

Quote:

We will explore this when the product is finalized and available.

You can explore this right now. The XMOS processor documentation is available from their website, and a USB-attached development kit costs on the order of $100.

@umisef

Thanx but we will wait for the official XMOS development tools and documentation for Amiga OS 4.x and the X1000. The Amiga implementation of XMOS is integrated and may be different for the AmigaOne X1000.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 25-Jun-2010 at 07:10 AM.

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@DiscreetFX

At least the access to Xcore could be faster & with lower latency than by using USB2.

Also xena+xorro+inlinePCIe might give interesting calculations expansion options in the future.

But today, xcore is not for accelerating general purpose math, especially when the host CPU is so insanely powerfull compared to it.

related thoughts...
I read that SB600 GPIO can be used to wake up the motherboard. IF xena is connected to that and if it can run also when the PPC is powered off, it might give interesting option to use xcore for some home automation etc. when the CPU itself is off. But, I think it has been said that the JTAG lines are connected to the CPU GPIO and xcore serial data is connected to CPU local bus (envoy/Serdes lines).
I hope we will see x1000 block diagram soon, and some reference board to xorro slot. Perhaps some xmos geek might be interested doing something for the xorro slot... (I want those atari ports+classic amiga keyboard connector + parallel port + .... but I can not afford x1000 this year.)


other....
So, the x1000 CPU is 2Ghz Power (PA semi) chip. And it's speed can be set on the fly.
Is the speed limited to 1.8Ghz (support chip limitations?) or is it safe/possible to run it @ 2Ghz as well?


and...
If someone wants AOS4 for emulated PPC on x86 (sheepshaver?), just pay Hyperion to do it. It must cost far less than what x1000 R&D cost.

Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Jun-2010 at 09:39 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Jun-2010 at 09:36 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?