@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote: What would you consider a decent price? Say a price for which if OS4 hardware was available you would buy one.

Just for compairison this is a snippet from OSnews about the open graphics
project.

---------------------------------------
What is the target price you would like to sell the consumer version of your card at?

Originally, OGD1 was a fund raiser, and we were going to sell them at $1500 apiece.
Even today, $1500 is a competitive price for a board of this complexity, but we will
be selling it at half that with the goal of breaking even.
-----------------------------------------

The A1-X1000 is not expensive. It's just that what is in our pocket
is not worth anything.

@minator

Quote:

minator wrote: @amitv Here's a better link. Clearly PPC is not dead yet, that thing is rated faster per clock than a G5. However there is something very interesting about the specs of the p5020, It looks remarkably like an enhanced PA-Semi chip. There's clearly changes, slightly different ports some bits faster as well, less Serdes but they're twice the speed. The CPU cores appear to have changed a bit as well, they've got their own small L2s and the pipeline length has been cut in 2. Looks like an effort to boost control plane (i.e. integer) performance. However, P5020 isn't due until 2011, but given Freescale's record that means 2012. Last time Freescale did a 64bit PPC (The PPC620) it was 4 *years* late and then only shipped in very limited quantities. My guess is X1000 will ship with a Freescale branded CPU that is basically a rebadged PA-Semi chip. Then, when it's ready there'll be an upgrade to the p5020 (assuming A-eon can actually sell enough to keep going that long).

e500mc-64 core is estimated to yield 3.0 DMIPS/MHz.

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@steril606
Quote:

with some tendencies for certain behaviours. AOS: "We are the only rightful OS, everybody else is an imposter." MOS: "MOS is faster/better/stronger, and we should have been the rightful Amiga OS, but nobody cares. AOS is ####." AROS: "We are running on cheap and fast hardware. You don't." Classic: "Let's use our old machines or UAE. Modern hardware is not Amiga" Well, that's my observation over the last years. And, AOS4 is kind of the common enemy for all the other factions, so that's why they are getting the most flak. Kind of sad situation. Can't be told often enough, we all played Speedball back in the day.

Aside from Mechanic who played HK Phooey ( )

Anyway those stances are what we should try to avoid in the future, we all gave harsh responses in the past at some point (God knows I am guilty of many) but it is not the way to go hope that this 25th anniversary will be remembered as the year Amigans stopped fighting each other...

@Koft
I want to trust your good will although in the past you attacked Aeon/Hyperion a lot. Who knows, 2 years down the line they might have a modern OS (modernized on the X1000 by devs) to put on a more mainstream machine you might happen to like.
They decided that the first step should be this workstation which will expose AmigaOS to SMP and more, if the whole project goes well we'll see good fruits down the line, otherwise you will be able to claim "told ya it wasn't a good strategy"!
For the moment you have expressed your feelings thoroughly now give them a break.

Last edited by DAX on 24-Jun-2010 at 02:20 PM.

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@koft

Quote:

koft wrote: Wow, that's a wall of text. TL;DR comes to mind...

It did seem a little ranty didn't it. I was trying to make a point, that you are looking at it from 'one' point of view. Life very rarely hold true to a single circumstance.

Quote:

You're over reacting to the points I have made.

A matter of opinion of course

Quote:

Optimally, A-Eon would be shipping product right now. They originally claimed that we'd have this before summer, guess what, it's summer. A-Eon claims to have to be silent about the CPU because of an NDA agreement, but it's already past the date of their most optimal release schedule.

Do you think an NDA cannot be written to make room for slippage in the planned release schedule.

Quote:

The only way to fit their claim to something logical is if the NDA restricted them from talking about the "secret part" until *after* they were shipping units. That's anal to some absurd degree and it makes no sense whatsoever.

I disagree, but I agree it is an anal idea. I don't think they would have such a clause, only release info after it goes on sale. But as I proposed in my previous post, why would they not have a clause which restricted info being released until they were sure the product actually woudl go on sale? ie when the final design goes to manufacture? Or once a number (say 100 or more) boards are sucessfully manufactured and passed quality control testing?


Quote:

That's absurd. A-Eon isn't talking about the CPU because they choose not to, and it's part of their bizarre marketing strategy.

So, you don't know anyone who imposes absurd restrictions, or has other absurd business practices? It's not impossible, and maybe being related to the fact the SoC is aimed at DoD and other 'sensitive' applications maybe, just maybe, PA Semi went with an overly strict NDA, and just applied it to everyone. I can't wait to hear what the 'interesting story' is behind the CPU partnership (as mentioned on the What is X campaign pages.)

Quote:

In my opinion it's a shame they've chosen to go this route in the PR department. We've seen endless waves of holy wars because of it. I'm glad though, I've gotten sick of all the BS. I picked up an emac earlier today and installed MorphOS and was thoroughly impressed to be honest. Half the power of an A1X1K for a grand total of 256 dollars. And man is that sweet that the cost of the machine + MOS license happened to be a power of 2.

LOL Yeah I love numbers like that. And it is a shame that there are such restrictions, I agree. But if the NDA is valid, it's valid. You may opine as much as you like, but it won't change a thing. I think it really is a matter of the CPU supplier saving face if small startups never come out on top after announcing their use of the SoC.

Sounds like a fun machine. I'm in the camp of not buying 2nd hand equipment though, and I don't like the look of the eMac's. There is a Mac Mini (1.5GHz) listed on ebay in Australia, but it's $330 (+post I figure) and that's just... not doable I think. Yeah, I expect Mac equipment to de-value a little faster than that. I do buy 2nd hand gear, but not at those rates.

But back to the point, I don't think it's BS. I think it's simply lack of experience. I am constantly astounded why ANYONE in this market doesn't use the 'forward look statement' disclaimer. It would really help to quieten some of the raging emotions in this community.

tiffers

@DAX

HK Phooey Nuk Nuk Nuk.

@Mechanic

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@DAX

Quote:

DAX wrote: Aside from Mechanic who played HK Phooey ( )

Actually I haven't played Speedball2 either, but it's such a catchy phrase ;) ...

>I would be very happy, some benchs posted at amiga.org suggest it is similar to a >core-2 duo as far as processing power goes (if clocked the same), do we know >more about it? Is this a a better than G5 core?

thats wrong, under some reason there is only a wrong value of a core duo in the list.other core duo are lots faster in this bench in performance /MHZ

read this post and the following too

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?p=565896#post565896

but we need more benchmarks of pa6t.this is the only one.but i think the pa6t give not so good performance /MHZ as a G4.

so it can be possible a mac mini with 1,4 GHZ is faster as a X1000 in CPU.
But we know more, when we see blender values of X1000, or some other

Last edited by bernd_afa on 24-Jun-2010 at 03:25 PM.

@bernd_afa

Coremark. Isnt´it the benchmark where 5200B has same rusult as Cortex-A8?

@pavlor

>Coremark. Isnt´it the benchmark where 5200B has same rusult as Cortex-A8?

I dont know what you mean, in the list is a 5200b but no cortex a8.there are some ARM CPU here, but this are maybe chip simulator, because clockrate is 1 MHZ.

@bernd_afa

Freescale MPC5200B 400MHz
Coremark: 1121.08

Texas Instruments OMAP3530 500MHz (uses Cortex-A8)
Coremark: 1268.56

Sun UltraSPARC T1 1GHz
Coremark: 1212.05

Sun UltraSPARC-T2 (4x8) (T5220) 1165 MHz
Coremark: 993.14


Do you think that these CPUs have the same performance?

@pavlor
>Freescale MPC5200B 400MHz
>Coremark: 1121.08

>Texas Instruments OMAP3530 500MHz (uses Cortex-A8)
>Coremark: 1268.56

whats problem with the values, a ARM A8 CPU is a very low power CPU that use some millwatt, so cant be a performance wonder in performance /MHZ compare to the mpc5200B and Coremark performance is near same.

and the sun Sparc values, are low, for a single thread, but because not many use sun ultra sparc, so perfermance is maybe really not good.but change to best CPU is as we all know not easy possible, and expensive

Last edited by bernd_afa on 24-Jun-2010 at 07:11 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 24-Jun-2010 at 07:09 PM.

@bernd_afa

"so it can be possible a mac mini with 1,4 GHZ is faster as a X1000 in CPU."

No, It's not possible.
Everything in PA6T is more advanced than in G4 (or G5), even though the pipeline is longer. And it has two cores & runs @ higher clock. Also we should remember how much more performance gains x86 got from integrated RAM controller, PA6T has two of them @ high clock.

Last edited by KimmoK on 24-Jun-2010 at 08:18 PM.

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@bernd_afa

Maybe another example will convince you:

Sun UltraSPARC IIi 648MHz
Coremark: 916.09 (2 PThreads!!)

For comparison same CPU scores 246 SpecInt2000 (comparable to 750FX or Pentium III)

I don´t think that 5200B could score 600 SpecInt2000 (comparable to Pentium 4 1.6 GHz)...

@thread

If it is the PA6T-1682M we will have a nice future :

http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT102405055354

In the future model, a High Performance System could be built around this chip :


The HPC system depicted features 8 cores, dissipating a total of around 50W from the CPUs and another 50W from the DRAM and I/O. The 8 cores would be capable of 128 SP GFLOP/s or 32 DP GFLOP/s. The system could use up to 128GB of memory spread across the 16 DDR2 controllers, and would provide 64GB/s of bandwidth. Of course, there are also the SERDES; up to 96, which would provide 240Gbps or 30GB/s of I/O bandwidth. These SERDES could be used for easy clustering, perhaps 10 Gigabit Ethernet between each MPU; if everything was kept on a single board, the latency should be quite low. The additional SERDES would likely be used for a communication backplane and for a storage array (perhaps controlled by a PA6T-1682M). Whether such a beast ever ships is highly speculative, but it is certainly an intriguing thought.

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@asymetrix

Quote:

If it is the PA6T-1682M we will have a nice future :

The future of 5 years ago is hardly relevant today, especially considering what has happened to the owner of the IP in the meantime.

@umisef

Do you ever have anything nice to say about the X1000 or Amiga OS 4.x? This machine is the highest specced Amiga yet and should be a great upgrade for Amiga OS 4.x fans. Apple and Oranges comparing it to something else unless what you compare it to also runs Amiga OS 4.x.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 25-Jun-2010 at 08:36 AM.

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@asymetrix

If half of the embedded PPC plans materialize this year. We should have good enough "CPU" options for the next high end board and fo new powerfull low end boards.
(but it can be that PPC looses to ARM and MIPS etc. on the embedded arena, PPC R&D seems to have been paralyzed after 2007 to 2010)

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@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote: @koft Quote: The rest of your rant is nuts. I have no "chosen" platform. I'm a classic user, an AROS user and recently a MOS user, I'd be an AOS4 user if it was more available for a decent price What would you consider a decent price? Say a price for which if OS4 hardware was available you would buy one.

300 dollars including software license.

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@asymetrix

It does not bother me too much as the military buy this processor in the millions.
We dont know how long contracts are, it could be 5 - 10+ years, even then new contract could be made. So Im still happy.

@KimmoK

Indeed. But looking at Freescales new products, they have similar int/float as PASEMI - could they be also be using a modified mask ?

WE just have to wait and see.

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