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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: The New Commodore Amiga 500x and Commodore 64x
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 12:38:31
#281 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1351
From: CRO

@drstrangelove

It's not a bad start, but AROS needs much more work then simple drivers...

But we'll see when amiga line gets launched, maybe we're in for a nice surprise, maybe we're not...

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Yssing 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 12:44:07
#282 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1084
From: Unknown

@clebin

Quote:
If you were confident to put your opinion forward that strongly, then you shouldn't have had to Google it to find out that Commodore had nothing to do with PowerPC.


Yeah I had to google it, because some times my memory fails me, issues with my brain, so what!!

I know Commodore made PC's.. Thats no secrect. But Commodore PCs had nothing to do with amiga.

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Hammer 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 14:50:26
#283 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5344
From: Australia

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@clebin

Quote:
If you were confident to put your opinion forward that strongly, then you shouldn't have had to Google it to find out that Commodore had nothing to do with PowerPC.


Yeah I had to google it, because some times my memory fails me, issues with my brain, so what!!

I know Commodore made PC's.. Thats no secrect. But Commodore PCs had nothing to do with amiga.


I recall Commodore was advertising that their Amiga X86 bridgeboards can be use as a co-processor for the Amiga. Commodore Amiga 2000 includes ISA slots for Amiga X86 bridgeboards.

This is before PowerPC.

Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 02:56 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 02:55 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 02:51 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 02:50 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Jupp3 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 16:17:57
#284 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Quote:
As for X86 future, refer to Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20091

My claim is and has been that AmigaOS, or a clone, should have been ported to a PC.
...
This runs many times faster than any "neo-Amiga" class PPC machine

Since when have the qualified opinions of the best engineers of a company got anything to do with the direction the company will eventually take?

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eniacfoa 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 17:36:32
#285 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Sep-2007
Posts: 355
From: Melbourne

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@eniacfoa

Any way, x86 will never be amiga, no matter how many amiga stickers you slap on it.

PPC/RISC was the way Commodore was headed AFAIK before they went belly up.


If commodore survived like apple did - they would be x86. You cant deny it. The market wanted a single universal platform and PPC failed to compete after awhile...end of story. Its all about the OS - resistance to x86 is futile...

The only 100% amiga's are the classic's...

I personally dont see how you can say any amiga after cbm death is pure and true. I think AROS on a C=USA pc is totally valid as next gen amiga and probably the best option - no one can afford the over priced and underpowered ppc hardware. You'd either have to be insane or wealthy to defend it.

What made cbm so cool is they put decent computers into many peoples houses at far less cost than apple/ibm...computers for the masses - not the classes.

AROS is as amiga as OS4.

The hw is irrelevant now. computer hw wars are over, look out the window...maybe take a step outside...

Last edited by eniacfoa on 14-Oct-2010 at 05:41 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 18:05:38
#286 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie Quote:
This is a new beginning, as respectful to both Commodore and Amiga's legacy as humanly possible

Given that AmigaOS4 & the AmigaOne X1000 are part of the Amiga's legacy, one wonder how "respectful" you are being by calling your thing "Commodore Amiga 500x"?

The naming (and timing) seems a mite too close for comfort in my opinion, almost as if you hope to confuse potential X1000 buyers into thinking the 500x is related. The only worse thing you could have done would be to call it "Commodore Amiga X500", but I guess that would be a bit too blatant even for a company as iffy as C=USA...

The old name of "Commodore Amiga C500" was rather more reasonable IMHO, but I guess you want to annoy A-Eon & Hyperion as much as possible, despite your claims that you want to work with them.

Quote:
x is obviously a reference to the Intel/x86 chips

Ah yes, of course, and the fact that it bears a remarkable resembalance to the X1000 name is both entirely coincidental & not your fault at all, despite coming some time after the publicity around the X1000.

Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Oct-2010 at 06:21 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Oct-2010 at 06:14 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Oct-2010 at 06:10 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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Hondo 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 18:14:02
#287 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1370
From: Denmark

@ChrisH

I'm with you on this one

+1

_________________
On Planet Boing Trevor is God

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number6 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 18:20:09
#288 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11589
From: In the village

@ChrisH

Quote:
Quote:
despite your claims that you want to work with them


Not wanting to put too fine a point on this Chris, but honestly Leo is just a liason here, as he says. He has little say in approval of anything discussed.
In fact, depending on what might be discussed concerning Hyperion and C=USA, it is Amiga Inc. who would have final approval rights.
You can easily reason out what topic involves their approval.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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ChrisH 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 18:24:11
#289 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6679
From: Unknown

@number6 Quote:
honestly Leo is just a liason here ... He has little say in approval of anything discussed.

I think I said something to that effect when the whole C=USA thing first went bananas. But that doesn't mean I can't criticise C=USA's decisions, nor address him since he puts himself in the public relations position in the first place.

Quote:
as he says

I hadn't noticed hin say that, but I am glad he is being a bit more up-front about how much say he has in these things. But I don't envy his position of having to defend *someone else's* decisions, whether he really agrees with them or not...

Last edited by ChrisH on 14-Oct-2010 at 06:25 PM.

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It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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number6 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 18:32:59
#290 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11589
From: In the village

@ChrisH

Quote:
I hadn't noticed hin say that, but I am glad he is being a bit more up-front about how much say he has in these things. But I don't envy his position of having to defend *someone else's* decisions, whether he really agrees with them or not...


Yes. He's been quite up front with calling himself the U.S. liason. He referred to it as a role he found himself -in-.
Also his sig:
Quote:
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.


We've seen similar disclaimers from the Friedens, no? I have one myself. heh.

I think Leo was much appreciated as a poster here prior to taking on his new role, and he's accepted having to be a target at times. But obviously, if he and Barry discussed how to approach this, the decision was made to have a current AW member make 1st contact. Perhaps you wish it was Barry himself who had come here to start the dialog, but honestly, I think that would have resulted in even more heated posts, which never serves the website well.

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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toRus 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 20:01:05
#291 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 210
From: Unknown

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote:

PPC is dead as a home computing PC platform architecture.


Probably not. But I wouldn't be suprised if PC is dead in the near future and most people have Sony Playstations, Android smartphones, Apple iPods/iPads, HP/Oracle/Dell servers, Google TVs, OLPCs etc leaving the few lamers that remain to run biased benchmarks in order to justify their inexcusable spendings into overrated technology.

I wonder what is worse. Retromaniacs that spend 500+ EUR (probably a lot more) on obselete and underpowered motherboards/machines just for the shake of old happy days, maybe also believing that a unified move of the few remaing parties/users would postpone the death of their platform (guess what, Amiga never died) or Wintel "enthusiasts" that spend 500+ EUR (probably a lot more) on x86 superduper machines in order to learn a few million decimal places of Pi.


Quote:

Hammer wrote:
@Yssing
My claim is and has been that AmigaOS, or a clone, should have been ported to a PC.


Thank God it didn't. Mind that this was Dave's opinion in 2006. It wouldn't surprise me if today he believed that hardware is not as much important anymore and cloud computing is the future.


Quote:

clebin wrote:
If you were confident to put your opinion forward that strongly, then you shouldn't have had to Google it to find out that Commodore had nothing to do with PowerPC.


Commodore had to do with Motorola and 68k CPUs. Motorola had to do with PowerPC. The logical choice for next generation Amigas was PPC. It's simple as that. Stop pretending you don't remember anything from that era.

Last edited by toRus on 14-Oct-2010 at 08:02 PM.

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Mechanic 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 20:38:26
#292 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Jul-2003
Posts: 2007
From: Unknown

@Hondo

Quote:

Hondo wrote:
@ChrisH

I'm with you on this one

+1


Not me! ...end of story.

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Hammer 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 23:30:30
#293 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5344
From: Australia

@toRus

Quote:
Probably not. But I wouldn't be suprised if PC is dead in the near future and most people have Sony Playstations, Android smartphones, Apple iPods/iPads, HP/Oracle/Dell servers, Google TVs, OLPCs etc leaving the few lamers that remain to run biased benchmarks in order to justify their inexcusable spendings into overrated technology.


Sony Playstations = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. player type devices.
Android smartphones = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. player type devices.
Apple iPods/iPads = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. player type devices.
Google TVs = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. player type devices.
OLPCs = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. mostly a player type devices.

statement "most people have Sony Playstations" is false and unsupported

Refer to
EA: PC Becoming Largest Gaming Platform


http://www.pcgamingalliance.org/imwp/idms/popups/pop_download.asp?contentID=15557
The PC Gaming Alliance (PCGA), a nonprofit corporation dedicated to driving the worldwide growth of PC gaming, published a new report titled The PC Gaming Alliance Presents the PC Gaming Industry in 2008. The report provides an overview of the PC gaming market and the growth of the largest single platform for games with annual revenue of about $11 billion....

Intel Moorestown + Android X86 smartphone.

Last edited by Hammer on 15-Oct-2010 at 04:19 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 11:36 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 11:35 PM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Anonymous 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 15-Oct-2010 0:07:22
# ]

0
0

@Yssing

Quote:
Yeah I had to google it, because some times my memory fails me, issues with my brain, so what!!

I know Commodore made PC's.. Thats no secrect. But Commodore PCs had nothing to do with amiga.



I don't understand how people can turn a fun hobby based around a much loved but old-fashioned computing platform into some kind of deathly serious doctrine, saying "oh, this CPU will never be Amiga".

The scary thing in the Amiga community is that it seems some people have so lost touch with the reasons why they believe "this is Amiga", "this will never be Amiga" and things which in the real world hold no importance whatsoever, that they have to Google just to remind themselves why they ever formed that belief in the first place.

I think we'd all have a lot more fun with our hobby if we cast aside such outmoded opinions and got on with enjoying what's good about our community.

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 15-Oct-2010 at 12:08 AM.
Last edited by clebin on 15-Oct-2010 at 12:08 AM.

 
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toRus 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 15-Oct-2010 0:42:05
#295 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 210
From: Unknown

@Hammer

Quote:

Sony Playstations = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. player type devices.
Android smartphones = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. player type devices.
Apple iPods/iPads = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. player type devices.
Google TVs = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. player type devices.
OLPCs = fail as busines/content creator PC i.e. mostly a player type devices.


False and unsupported.

Quote:

Hammer wrote:
The PC Gaming Alliance (PCGA), a nonprofit corporation dedicated to driving the worldwide growth of PC gaming...


Quote:

...in 2008...


PC Gaming Alliance. In 2008.

You stated a source regarding EA. Perhaps you should refer to EA's own (and more recent) reports, such as

EA Latest Annual Report

e.g. page 106.

PC gaming is on decline, consoles sell well, mobile gaming is growing - even EA knows that (wait until they enter the Android platform too). As for iPhone and iPad they are all over the place in the Internet, where have you been the last year ?

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Hammer 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 15-Oct-2010 2:55:45
#296 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 5344
From: Australia

@toRus



Quote:
False and unsupported.

Where's your supporting links?

It looks like you haven't worked in the real business world.

Sony Playstation 3 disables Linux. Refer to
http://blog.eu.playstation.com/2010/03/29/ps3-firmware-3-21-coming-april-1st/
3rd party OS with Sony Playstation is a joke.

Sony Playstation 3 is a poor business desktop PC i.e. 256MB memory and doesn't run MS Office i.e. plenty of document management automation software builds on top of MS Office.

Quote:

Android smartphones
.

Where's Quicken accounting?
Where's MYBO accounting?
Where's Adobe Acrobat Pro?
Where's QuarkXPress ?
Where's Autodesk AutoCAD?
Where's the certified accounting software?
Where's the certified legal accounting software? Hint; legal accounting software is different from general accounting software. Where's LexisNexis Affinity?
Is the screen large enough for productivity?

Quote:

Google TVs
.

Same as Android smartphones i.e. they are toys. They are mostly player/reader type devices.

Quote:

Apple iPods/iPads
.

Same as Android smartphones i.e. they are toys. They are mostly player/reader type devices.

Quote:

OLPCs
.

Netbooks is dominated by Windows.

Quote:

PC gaming is on decline, consoles sell well, mobile gaming is growing - even EA knows that (wait until they enter the Android platform too). As for iPhone and iPad they are all over the place in the Internet, where have you been the last year ?

In July 2009, http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/59764

Valve now says that year-over-year Steam sales have risen a significant 97%, while competitor Direct2Drive has logged a 56% boost, according to IGN
---

29 Jan 2010, http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/27011/Valve_Steam_Broke_25_Million_Active_Users_In_2009.php
Valve: Steam Broke 25 Million Active Users In 2009.
---

29 Jan 2010,
http://news.bigdownload.com/2010/01/29/valve-offers-up-2009-user-and-sales-numbers-sort-of-for-steam/
Valve: Steam 2009 game unit sales went up 205 percent.

---
http://www.stardock.com/about/newsitem.asp?id=1854
June 23, 2010

The growth of Impulse has exceeded our expectations exponentially," said Brad Wardell, CEO and president of Stardock. "In the past two years we have heard time and time again about the death of PC gaming, but the growth of Impulse has proven that a viable and profitable PC gaming market is alive and well."
---

Mobile HD gaming is only done on gaming laptop PCs.

Quote:

...in 2008...


http://www.pcgamingalliance.org/

According to the 2009 PCGA Horizons report, PC gaming software revenue was a $13.1 billion industry in 2009, up 3% from 2008. Revenues from consumer PCs capable of gaming totaled approximately $54.6 billion in 2009 and are forecasted to grow to $61.3 billion by 2014. 61.5 million PCs (Desktop and Laptops) shipped in 2009 that can largely be associated with PC gaming as a key usage scenario.

The PC is by far, the most prevalent gaming platform in the world and is likely to continue to be for foreseeable future.


http://www.pcgamingalliance.org/NEWSEVENTS/AlliancePressReleases/tabid/383/Default.aspx
August 2, 2010
The PC Gaming Alliance (PCGA), a nonprofit corporation dedicated to driving the worldwide growth of PC gaming, today unveiled its Horizons Hardware research report, an exclusive research study encompassing major aspects of the PC gaming hardware industry worldwide. Among the key findings: Annual shipment volumes for the PC Gaming hardware market in 2009 were over two times larger than the combined Wii™, PlayStation® 2, PlayStation® 3 and Xbox 360® console units shipped in the same period. This trend for the PC Gaming hardware market to outpace all console shipments combined is expected to continue through the forecasted period of the research.

----
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/05/28/npd-console-and-pc-gaming-on-the-rise-portable-gaming-down/
May 28th 2010
NPD: Console and PC gaming on the rise, portable gaming down
----
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/pc_graphics_shipment_growth_skyrockets_intel_still_top_dog

Forgot all the talk about consoles stomping out the PC as a gaming platform, that just isn't going to happen. Need proof? According to Jon Peddie Research (JPR), the PC graphics market has gotten off to sizzling hot start with a 44 percent increase in shipments in the first quarter compared to one year ago.

----
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/mobile_platforms_drive_pc_growth_2010
Mobile Platforms to Drive PC Growth in 2010

We've heard all the gloom and doom predictions from PC naysayers, but rest assured, PCs aren't going anywhere. On the contrary, market research firm Gartner predicts PC shipments will skyrocket by 20 percent this year, in part because of mobile devices.

-----
http://jonpeddie.com/press-releases/details/pc-gaming-hardware-forecast-to-reach-27-billion-in-2010/
"The PC gaming market continues to be the high growth, and technological leader for home entertainment."

-----
http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2010/04/19/hear-that-knocking-sound-its-pc-gaming/



What was PS1+PS2+PS3 install base again?
----


LOL at false prophets i.e. "We've heard all the gloom and doom predictions from PC naysayers".

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_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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CodeSmith 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 15-Oct-2010 5:37:46
#297 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@Hammer

Jeez, I've heard of throwing the book at someone but that was the whole encyclopedia

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Manu 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 15-Oct-2010 6:22:09
#298 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@CodeSmith

Quote:

CodeSmith wrote:
@Hammer

Jeez, I've heard of throwing the book at someone but that was the whole encyclopedia



Hammer is never short of facts

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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TheDungeonDelver 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 15-Oct-2010 6:28:03
#299 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 17-Apr-2004
Posts: 815
From: Unknown

Quote:


Jeez, I've heard of throwing the book at someone but that was the whole encyclopedia


Hammer didn't just throw it at him, he fired it out of a howitzer!

_________________
The problem with AmigaOS on PPC isn't that PPC is big-endian. The problem with AmigaOS on PPC is that PPC is dead-endian.

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jcassara 
Re: The New Commodore Amiga 500x and Commodore 64x
Posted on 15-Oct-2010 6:39:03
#300 ]
Member
Joined: 30-Oct-2008
Posts: 11
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

Never mind my opinion that the Commodore brand no longer carries any significance and that the product offerings are uninspired and just plain ugly; I have serious reservations about a company whose CTO uses as many emoticons as you do.

Last edited by jcassara on 15-Oct-2010 at 06:39 AM.

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