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PosterThread
bison 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 26-Oct-2010 23:01:25
#261 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1531
From: N-Space

@kindergip

Quote:
To my way of thinking there are now only two types of Amigans left, those holding pat on their hands for any new thing that will take them forward and those that are saving up to buy whatever comes next. These people wait with baited breath for news that the Amiga is still alive and going forward.

The other camp is composed of the marginalized who have been forced elsewhere or just plain jumped ship, the hangers on that only want to make comments on the efforts of others who are actually doing something and the angry detractors who have some mental delusion of how the world should be and don't understand why the Amiga won't die.

I'm in a third group: those who think the Amiga has died "body and soul" (hardware and software), but that the spirit -- the idea that computers should enable people and not frustrate them -- lives on.

Windows is the reigning champ when it comes to frustration. Apple doesn't frustrate as much, but it's not all that enabling either. Most Linux distributions are simultaneously enabling and frustrating, which can be maddening.

I'm not opposed to those who are trying to resuscitate the hardware -- in fact, I plan to buy an X1000 if it comes to market at a price that I can afford -- but I don't think the model of selling custom hardware in low volumes is financially viable for the long term.

_________________
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eliyahu 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 26-Oct-2010 23:34:47
#262 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1812
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@elatour

Quote:
Well, I'm not suggesting hardwired OS functionality but at least an AOS4 SDK for it would have been nice. By the sounds of it, such a thing will be more of an after thought than a priority, at least for the initial release of the AmigaOne X1000...so if this is not seriously supported for others to build upon, then there is no hope for people to write for it, whether for commercial or for other applications, making it useless custom hardware to have access to, at least IMHO.

IIRC there are plans for development tools, but i don't recall specifics, e.g., who is writing them, when they'll be available, etc.

don't be disappointed: we don't know the full answer to if/when native dev tools will be available. by the way, i would suggest contacting trevor directly and seeing if he can answer you re: development tools for XMOS on OS4. that's probably your best bet.

in any case i didn't think you were interested in the X1000. would the presence of said development tools at launch sway towards making a purchase?

-- eliyahu

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elatour 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 4:25:51
#263 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2005
Posts: 936
From: Toronto, Canada

@Mechanic

Quote:
Well I have not read the book yet, but I imagine it would be like the relationship between oil companies and wildcat drillers. The oil company had the choice of buying the oil, the well, or the oil field. They both profited from the enterprise.


Well, close but not quite. There is a similar case study for mining where a company's proprietary geological information was made openly available to people all over the world to look at on the Net. Some "experts" in the field and others from completely different fields found innovative ways to corelate different information with what was made available to come up with innovative ways to identify areas with strong concentrations of various ore deposits. The external entities, some 2000 of them, came up with more accurate indications than did the company's own 50 or so experts. This company went from being on the verge of being bankrupt to being a huge success overnight, and the external people got "finders" fees or payment for their newly developped methods.

Quote:
For this, the OS/hardware, case I feel the *oil company* must first be an established entity.

Of course, and this is what Hyperion is Today. They own the source code and the product as well as the name. They could play the same role, and for little or at no cost to them, move the platform forward faster with an army of volunteer developpers, all the while retaining the IP and releasable code as well as the name.

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elatour 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 4:43:12
#264 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2005
Posts: 936
From: Toronto, Canada

@eliyahu

Quote:
In any case i didn't think you were interested in the X1000. would the presence of said development tools at launch sway towards making a purchase?

I was initially very interested, especially when A-EON and Hyperion announced this as rebirth of Amiga, much like the A1000 was to the classic Amiga, with innovative stuff, which XMOS seemed to deliver on - granted without giving any real examples of possible applications, but I could imagine that historically innovative Amiga developers would be sure to bring something innovative that nobody had thought of yet - but this could only happen if both companies were firmly behind these technologies, just like standard things included in the hardware platform and leveraged by iOS made Apple's iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad a platform for innovativation compared to the previous attempts at tablets and previous generations of mobile phones, portable MP3 players and portable game consoles - the combination of gyroscope, WiFi, 3G, GPS, multi-touch, flash storage, camera, mic, speakers, high resolution screens and an easy app delivery portal to sell your apps through/on in small but useable formats as standard made possible new and innovative applications that weren't possible before.

When I heard recently that the original AmigaOne X1000 would not include any AOS4 support for XMOS access or leverage it in any way, I was dismayed, but I figured I would wait to hear from A-EON and/or Hyperion themselves before I would write this one off my XMAS wish list. Deep down, I just couldn't believe that they would let such an opportunity slip away, specially when using the AmigaOne name for it and making references to being as innovative as A1000 was for the Amiga line so long ago.

Anyway, in reading the reports from the show, it would appear that this is not something that will be happenning, but it were to change, then I would certainly stand up and take notice and consider a purchase assuming that this were going somewhere in the near term and not just some feature that may be supoorted by the someone (who knows whether this will be A-EON or Hyperion) some time in the future....or not.

Last edited by elatour on 27-Oct-2010 at 04:58 AM.
Last edited by elatour on 27-Oct-2010 at 04:49 AM.
Last edited by elatour on 27-Oct-2010 at 04:48 AM.
Last edited by elatour on 27-Oct-2010 at 04:45 AM.

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agami 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 7:55:04
#265 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@MacSociety

Quote:
Apple has said for the last couple or years that their AppleTV has been a hobby. Hobbies can lead into businesses also and good ones so with time, I am sure the hobby becomes reality and that folks start buying the goods and it soon becomes a nice little business.


Don't people think before they speak anymore? Are you seriously comparing a fledgling new business like A-Eon with Apple Inc?

Apple has a healthy revenue stream from a bunch of other markets, so it doesn't hurt to do a side thing in the TV space and call it a hobby.

Also, the original Apple TV was $299.00 If they asked $2,000+ the press and the blogosphere would've dragged them through the proverbial mud. Sure, they'd still get some fanboys buying it, but a hell of a lot fewer than at $299.00

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agami 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 8:08:50
#266 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@Trev and others with the same disposition

Quote:
Trevor, however, was warm and friendly, immediately introducing himself with a smile on Friday evening. I liked that immensely, and that one, simple act softened a bit of my jaded Amigan exterior.


To many Amigans in the heyday Bill Gates was the epitome of the tech enemy. He was associated with everything that M$ did commercially to make computing a complex and crashing experience.

But if Amigans got a chance to meet Bill Gates they would've changed their tune. They'd meet a geek, much like themselves, who has a true passion for technology. Many people who've met Gates have experienced the disarming that @Trev and others speak about in meeting Trevor.

The Man is not the Business.

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clusteruk 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 8:16:13
#267 ]
Super Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2008
Posts: 1525
From: Marston Moretaine, England

Can we drop this X1000 is to expensive thinking.

If we are to assume the X1000 is aimed to be a professional product in a professional case and built to last, much like the Apple Mac Pro which starts at 1999.

http://store.apple.com/uk-business/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro

Before you all scream look at the spec, what spec a quad core instead of dual, and 2.8hgz instead of 1.8, look at chip costs and that chip they put in the mac is cheaper than the cost of the X1000 cpu because of volume of sales.

http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=145384

Assume with Apple discounts they would pay this amount for 2.8ghz.

The 1tb drive, add 20, the extra 2gb add 40.

The Mac Case is quality and so is the X1000.

And yet, the base level Mac is still more expensive.

Please support this great system, not in purchasing if you cannot afford it, but with moral support.

Last edited by clusteruk on 27-Oct-2010 at 08:27 AM.
Last edited by clusteruk on 27-Oct-2010 at 08:26 AM.
Last edited by clusteruk on 27-Oct-2010 at 08:17 AM.

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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 8:27:06
#268 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@agami
Hey Agami, from 2008 you posted nothing basically, now you don't seem to ever get tired of trying to fix in other's mind your vision about the official AmigaOS.

What have you find out in recent months that wasn't apparent 2 years ago? Don't tell me you're another of the "other camp" zealots that can't stand the fact that AmigaOS is getting new HW, so you can't refrain to tell everyone "not to get too exited" 'cause it's just a "hobby" and blah blah blah?

Please...

P.S.
And if you are not, what makes you so compelled to trash Trevor's work, comparing him to Bill Gates (yeah if you meet him he seems nice, but his business is "za DEVIL" ) your motivations are quite obscure (unless you are just a supporter of other camps OR yours is just a secondary account of someone we already know ).

Last edited by DAX on 27-Oct-2010 at 08:34 AM.
Last edited by DAX on 27-Oct-2010 at 08:32 AM.

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amigang 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 10:05:42
#269 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1478
From: Cheshire, England


Why are people thinking this is just a hobby, lets just say they sell the x1000 at 2,000 each and sell the target amount of 250 units, thats half a million pounds from this so called hobby business. I think most business would like to have that kind of turn over.

PS: this video of Steve Jobs & Bill Gates gives advice on a new business and watching it made me think that Tever is the right man behind this project as most people would of just given up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1wP6v4maL0

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agami 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 10:19:35
#270 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@DAX

Quote:
Hey Agami, from 2008 you posted nothing basically, now you don't seem to ever get tired of trying to fix in other's mind your vision about the official AmigaOS.

What have you find out in recent months that wasn't apparent 2 years ago?


Two things;

1. In 2008 there was not much happening because of the lawsuit. Now there's actual developments.

2. What I've also found this year is some extra time. In 2008 and 2009 I was very busy with work.

I'm not from another camp. I've used the handle 'agami' (anagram of Amiga) since 1995 on IRC. I have never spoken in favour of another camp versus Amiga, and have only used other systems in subjective comparison. I have never made it a personal matter or insulted anyone.

This forum is not suited to me explaining the full story, suffice to say, as a life long Amigan who has waited more than most sane men care to wait for things, I am truly disappointed at the squandered opportunity. I don't want to throw credentials around, but looking at the situation through my eyes, the math doesn't stack up.

I'm in a tough spot personally. I'm thinking of the UFO poster from the X-Files except it's an AmigaOne X-1000 with the bold caption of "I Want to Believe".

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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 10:26:34
#271 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@agami
Can you explain your opinion in clear words?
For example something like:

1)Due to delays, I don't think the X1000 will ever be out.

2)Due to the small company Aeon is, I don't think there will ever be an X2000

3)Due to Hyperion AmigaOS will never improve.

Something like that, 3 or 4 (or more) clear points of what you think, it would help others relate with your feelings, without extrapolating stuff (as I did )

_________________
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Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
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agami 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 10:31:25
#272 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

Reading some of the posts here has given me an idea and I'd like to go on the record.
This is 100% serious. I have paid more for decent research data.

If someone can find a reasonable facsimile from the past 25 years in which business growth was achieved applying a strategy that can be likened to that of A-Eon, I will buy that person an AmigaOne X-1000 upon it's release.

I will place the terms and conditions on my website www.innthink.com

I'll let everyone know when the site info is up.


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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 10:39:45
#273 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@agami
Now I get it! You are trying to convince Aeon to contract you as business planner/advisor? (not that I would mind)

_________________
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Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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agami 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 10:59:04
#274 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@DAX

Not to blow my own trumpet, but if I thought they could afford my services I would contact them directly and not use this forum.

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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 11:13:15
#275 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@agami
Well at least shed some free advice, don't just bash them

_________________
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hunk 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 11:19:27
#276 ]
Member
Joined: 5-Jan-2010
Posts: 76
From: Europe


If there will be no real company (management for the direction, marketing for communication, production, etc...) behind such projects like X1000 there will be no future.


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AlexC 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 11:21:25
#277 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2004
Posts: 1293
From: City of Lost Angels, California.

@thread



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agami 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 11:34:51
#278 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Jun-2008
Posts: 561
From: Melbourne, Australia

@DAX

Quote:
Well at least shed some free advice, don't just bash them :)


I have, over at www.amigaz.org

Most of the recent Op-Ed pieces I've written are directly related to our situation and I would consider it free advice.

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eniacfoa 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 12:12:27
#279 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Sep-2007
Posts: 355
From: Melbourne

@clusteruk

Quote:

clusteruk wrote:
Can we drop this X1000 is to expensive thinking.

If we are to assume the X1000 is aimed to be a professional product in a professional case and built to last, much like the Apple Mac Pro which starts at 1999.

http://store.apple.com/uk-business/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_pro

Before you all scream look at the spec, what spec a quad core instead of dual, and 2.8hgz instead of 1.8, look at chip costs and that chip they put in the mac is cheaper than the cost of the X1000 cpu because of volume of sales.

http://www.kikatek.com/product_info.php?products_id=145384

Assume with Apple discounts they would pay this amount for 2.8ghz.

The 1tb drive, add 20, the extra 2gb add 40.

The Mac Case is quality and so is the X1000.

And yet, the base level Mac is still more expensive.

Please support this great system, not in purchasing if you cannot afford it, but with moral support.


Its hilarious watching a ppc amigan justify the price of the x1000.

you just called a 2000 pound Mac - which is 3161 U.S. dollars at todays exchange rate 'base level'.

Thats base level for david rockefeller...and the mac you compare the x1000 to would eat the x1000 for breakfast.

Stop me if im wrong, but I dont recall CBM releasing PPC machines...CBM sold x86 machines though, no your ppc plugin boards dont count, there were also x86 ones.

There is no advantage to PPC in 2010. Maybe in 1998 you could have argued a point. Today, PPC is a clear disadvantage.

CBM were not responsible for PPC development. If they had better management and were still in business they would have found themselves in the same boat as apple. They would be x86 now.

Seems to me this ppc connection is more bill mcewens thing than CBM's...

PPC love is insanity. its not CBM. Its given us nothing but garbage. A1's, sam's, and now a $3162 USD desktop from yesterday. You could get something more powerful for 1/3 of the price.

Who the hell wants to pay that much for a still slow by todays standards desktop that can run AOS and linux? Its insanity.

If AOS went pc? the boards would light up with a magnitude of users from around the world. They wouldn't have to risk thousands of dollars which most wont or cant do. Just the price of the OS.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Or could it be that people want to hold onto their little hobbies instead of moving amiga forward which I think most would prefer?

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DAX 
Re: Amiwest 2010 - News
Posted on 27-Oct-2010 12:32:31
#280 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@eniacfoa
Have you just called clusteruk, the creator of the "imica" line of Aros equipped x86 machines, a PPC Amigan?

@Agami
Good then (nice reads) at this point why the next time you feel to have offered some free advice in your op-eds link to them like: "it would be better like -THIS-" (change -THIS- with appropriate links)?
In case you haven't written about it, then write something constructive here.

Your posts here most of the time sound like death sentences (or plain bashing) to those that don't know you, (and haven't read your op-eds either).

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