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      /  OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
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damocles 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 22-Dec-2010 21:42:51
#61 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

What I can not understand is the original super-duper NDA thing about this CPU. Why would Apple care in the first place since it's EOL and the team has since moved on? It's not like they are going to shut out A-EON from new chips, they aren't making any more. Less the CPU NDA reason was just marketing ploy.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 22-Dec-2010 22:07:05
#62 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

@NoelFuller
Quote:

People have commented on believing much of the time that the chip is the PA Semi, yet i doubt any have publically claimed so.

I had worked that out on a thread here ages before the configuration leak from Amiwest.

I was puzzled how it could be, but the specs meant it was PA Semi.

Feel free to dig back in history on this board.

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sundown 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 22-Dec-2010 23:47:29
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@damocles

Quote:
What I can not understand is the original super-duper NDA thing about this CPU.

Any information, good or bad, about the cpu can & will be used aganst them, thats a given.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 0:07:54
#64 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

@sundown

Before going anywhere with discussions with P.A. Semi you had to sign a pretty standard non-disclosure. Appended below is part of that document showing how restrictive this was before they would discuss anything with you.

Would anyone whining about the whole non-disclosure thing finally give it a rest, please!


--------------------------------------------------

Mutual Nondisclosure Agreement

This Nondisclosure agreement (the ?Agreement?) is entered into by and between P.A. Semi, Inc., 3965 Freedom Circle, Floor 8, Santa Clara, CA, 95054 and __________________, _____________________, collectively referred to as the ?parties? for the purpose of preventing the unauthorized disclosure of Confidential Information as defined below. The parties agree to enter into a confidential relationship with respect to the disclosure by one or each (the ?Disclosing Party?) to the other (the ?Receiving Party?) of certain proprietary and confidential information (the ?Confidential Information?).
1. Confidential Information
Disclosing Party's confidential proprietary trade secret information ("Confidential Information") consists of information and materials that are valuable and not generally known by Disclosing Party's competitors. Confidential Information includes:
(a) Any and all information concerning Disclosing Party's current, future or proposed products, including, but not limited to, formulas, designs, devices, computer code, drawings, specifications, notebook entries, technical notes and graphs, computer printouts, technical memoranda and correspondence, product development agreements and related agreements.
(b) Information and materials relating to Disclosing Party's purchasing, accounting and marketing, including, but not limited to, marketing plans, sales data, business methods, unpublished promotional material, cost and pricing information and customer lists.
(c) Information of the type described above which Disclosing Party obtained from another party and which Disclosing Party treats as confidential, whether or not owned or developed by Disclosing Party.
2. Description
The Confidential Information to be disclosed under this Agreement is described as followed:

P.A. Semi, Inc.: Product development plans and trade secrets, advance product specifications, development schedules, product roadmap, potential customers and potential markets.
_____________

3. Nondisclosure
Receiving Party will treat Confidential Information with the same degree of care and safeguards that it takes with its own Confidential Information, but in no event less than a reasonable degree of care. Without Disclosing Party's prior written consent, Receiving Party will not:
(a) disclose Confidential Information to any third party;
(b) make or permit to be made copies or other reproductions of Confidential Information; or
(c) make any commercial use of Confidential Information.
Receiving Party will carefully restrict access to Confidential Information to those of its officers, directors and employees who are subject to nondisclosure restrictions at least as protective as those set forth in this Agreement and who clearly need such access to participate on Receiving Party's behalf in the analysis and negotiation of a business relationship or any contract or agreement with Disclosing Party.
Receiving Party will advise each officer, director or employee to whom it provides access to any Confidential Information that they are prohibited from using it or disclosing it to others without Disclosing Party's prior written consent.
In addition, without prior written consent of Disclosing Party, Receiving Party shall not disclose to any person either the fact that discussions or negotiations are taking place concerning a possible transaction or the status of such discussions or negotiations.

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Paul 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 1:18:33
#65 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 626
From: Michigan

@thread

In the news just posted in the "News" section of the A-EON site, there is also this little piece of info:

Quote:

The PA6T CPU paves the way for the introduction of SMP with AmigaOS4.x. Also check out the new multi-core CPUs being developed by Freescale, in particular the 64-bit dual core, 2.2 GHz P5020 and the 8-core, 1.5GHz P4080.

A-EON Technology CVBA


Is A-EON hinting at the future here?

Paul

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eliyahu 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 3:00:50
#66 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1880
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Paul

Quote:
Is A-EON hinting at the future here?

seems so. these QorIQ processors from freescale were mentioned by ben hermans at this year's amiwest as potential candidates for future OS4 hardware platforms.

-- eliyahu

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T-J 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 4:00:34
#67 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2010
Posts: 596
From: Unknown

@NoelFuller

Quote:
People have commented on believing much of the time that the chip is the PA Semi, yet i doubt any have publically claimed so.


I'll be honest, I thought that Ben Hermans' mention of the QorIQ P4 and P5 chips as the future for A-Eon AmigaOS machines at AmiWest could have meant that the X1000 CPU was in fact a QorIQ of some description. Clearly not.

Still, comments suggest that the upgrade path to those newer chips is still clear, so I'm still happy.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 4:26:24
#68 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

@T-J

The QorIQ designs were likely influenced by the PA6T. The similarities are definitely there. The PA6T announcement probably gave Freescale a good scare - they had nothing comparable at the time.

However, Freescale still has problems delivering product. The chips being discussed aren't expected to be available until 2H/2011.

In the meantime the PA6T is a great way to start on the road to multi-core support and is available NOW.

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umisef 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 6:23:25
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2005
Posts: 1677
From: Melbourne, Australia

@gregthecanuck

Quote:
2. Description
The Confidential Information to be disclosed under this Agreement is described as followed:

P.A. Semi, Inc.: Product development plans and trade secrets, advance product specifications, development schedules, product roadmap, potential customers and potential markets.


Which of these do you think covers an "The X1000 is going to be using a PA6T" announcement by the makers of the X1000?

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olegil 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 7:55:49
#70 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Aug-2003
Posts: 5888
From: Work

@umisef

I agree, that NDA doesn't really affect announcements like this.

However, given that these chips were at some point manufactured to maintain supply for military applications, I can see an obvious need for a contract specifying a need for secrecy. Remember, it doesn't have to make sense to us, A-EON or even Varisys, as long as it makes sense to Apple. And NDAs like this is right up that fruity alley.

The point is that IF there is an NDA specifying when and how they can release the information that chips targetted for military applications have been reallocated to (niche) desktop computer use, I honestly expect that NDA to also specify when and how they are allowed to release information about the NDA itself as well.

The crux of the matter (did I use that expression correctly? Still learning here, english isn't my primary language here ) is, from my point of view, that these chips were held in storage by Apple because the US DoD demanded it. That's the only "logical" explanation for the secrecy. Obviously Varisys knew both the P.A.Semi guys and their customers, having designed and/or manufactured products with these chips before. So they could have bought an option on chips from a military customer, with some form of clause in the contract that this be held under wraps until said customer had finished migrating away from this family of chips.

Weirder things have happened in the electronics industry, believe me. I expect you've even experienced some silly cases yourself...

unrelated anecdote about logistics follows:
At work we've started using TI as a benchmark company for lead times. When times are bad, TI are the first to shut down production lines, and when times are good, they obviously ramp up. Possibly a little slower. So when TI lead times are increasing, we typically know that all other manufacturers are going to give us horrible lead times as well.

What does our logistics department use this information for? They warn us that we won't be able to deliver products for a while. Because increasing the stock in our warehouse would require a "political" debate all the way up to the board. So obviously that's too much hassle. Much better to loose our only source of income for three months than to bind up capital for three months enabling us to earn money. I doubt they COULD actually get a decision in less than three months.

Economists. Can't live with them, can't shoot them in the head. No, wait. That was WOMEN. Sorry, economists

I've actually considered setting up a warehouse company sitting on just the crucial parts for my own company. We pay such silly prices on the spot market when this happens that I would be about 90% certain of making a profit. But you know how that works, right? Theoretical 90% certainty of success means roughly 90% certainty of failure in real life

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

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DAX 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 8:31:49
#71 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@T-J
Probably they will be more interested in the coming QorlQ with built in Altivec unit, the current line up doesn't feature one, at the moment the PA6T seems the best choice.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 9:35:41
#72 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 846
From: Vancouver, Canada

Hi Bernie -

Quote:
Which of these do you think covers an "The X1000 is going to be using a PA6T" announcement by the makers of the X1000?


I would think the part about "advance product specifications" combined with "product roadmap". For sure it is a bit of a grey area. If I was to disclose *anything* I would be checking with P.A. Semi first to be sure there are no problems. It would be the reasonable thing to do.

In addition, this sample NDA pre-dates any relationship between A-Eon or others. July 2006 to be exact. Yes over 4 years ago! I was contemplating sinking serious cash into that venture. That chip was pretty cool back then. Too bad the company died. Oh well, I'm an ERP baron now.

Have a great Christmas!

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OldFart 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 23-Dec-2010 10:42:43
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2004
Posts: 2993
From: Stad; en d'r is moar ain stad en da's Stad. Makkelk zat!

@olegil

OFF TOPIC:
Quote:
Economists. Can't live with them, can't shoot them in the head. No, wait. That was WOMEN. Sorry, economists

What's the difference between economists and women (practically speaking, not physically!)? If there were no women, money would have no value!

BACK TO TOPIC (please)

OldFart

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Valis 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 24-Dec-2010 7:47:39
#74 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Jun-2010
Posts: 13
From: Unknown

@Paul

Quote:

Paul wrote:

Is A-EON hinting at the future here?

Paul




Let's have something in the present before we talk about A-Eon's future. AFAIK, A-Eon has never shipped a single retail product. Sadly I think they have yet to even ship a beta product either.

Come on A-Eon we're coming up on the 1 year anniversary of your website announcement. This is getting a little silly now. Asking us to swallow the story of an NDA for an EOL chip? Just looking more and more shady.

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jahc 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 24-Dec-2010 7:55:08
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-May-2003
Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Valis

Quote:
Let's have something in the present before we talk about A-Eon's future. AFAIK, A-Eon has never shipped a single retail product. Sadly I think they have yet to even ship a beta product either.

Come on A-Eon we're coming up on the 1 year anniversary of your website announcement. This is getting a little silly now. Asking us to swallow the story of an NDA for an EOL chip? Just looking more and more shady.

Thats some very ironic eye rolling you got going on there. :)

Varisys are making the board for A-Eon and they have shipped many products.

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Valis 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 24-Dec-2010 8:17:09
#76 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Jun-2010
Posts: 13
From: Unknown

@jahc

Quote:

jahc wrote:
@Valis

Thats some very ironic eye rolling you got going on there. :)

Varisys are making the board for A-Eon and they have shipped many products.


Don't drag Varisys into this mud hole with A-Eon. You're trying to deflected A-Eon's failings and blame Varisys.

Varisys never made any claims publicly about this board to this community. Varisys never made claims publicly about an NDA for an old EOL chip.

For Varisys' part all we know is that they were contracted to design and make 2 boards ~1.5 years ago and delivered those 2 boards precisely a year ago to A-Eon.

A-Eon has dug their own hole by not being honest, over promising and under delivering (read not delivering). The blame falls solely on their shoulders.

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jahc 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 24-Dec-2010 8:50:58
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-May-2003
Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@Valis

Quote:
Don't drag Varisys into this mud hole with A-Eon.

Argh.. I'm trying to force myself to read the rest of your message but my eyes autoskim over crap these days.

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sundown 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 24-Dec-2010 8:55:00
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@jahc

Quote:
but my eyes autoskim over crap these days.

LOL, couldn't have said it better myself.

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Valis 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 24-Dec-2010 9:03:23
#79 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Jun-2010
Posts: 13
From: Unknown

@jahc
Quote:

jahc wrote:
@Valis

Quote:
Don't drag Varisys into this mud hole with A-Eon.

Argh.. I'm trying to force myself to read the rest of your message but my eyes autoskim over crap these days.




That's what sank this community. People like you bowing down and blindly following anybody that comes in and posts they are resurrecting the Amiga. Use some common sense kid and learn to recognize wool being pulled over your eyes, for the umpteenth time by the umpteenth company.

A company will (usually these one person companies) will come in with nothing, but people like you will just follow it and bash everybody else that expresses concern. It boggles the mind.

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amigang 
Re: OSnews.com sez: X1000 to be based on PA6T
Posted on 24-Dec-2010 9:25:53
#80 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1841
From: Cheshire, England

@Valis

I think your being a bit hard on aeon, I think their only mistake was to release a due date (summer 2010), they should of used the famous, line but I think partly we pressure aeon to come out with something before they where ready, mainly because Hyperion promised MAP (most ambitious project) would be announced before the end of last year

You could say they have got products out, the a1 keyboard and mouse, plus also they have attended and supported every major amiga show this year, and the man in charge of aeon Trever Dickson has put some serious money into the amiga market over the years, so why would they do that only to scam maybe a 100 beta testers, plus if this is fake then thats pretty much the end of Hyperion as well, as no one would trust them, so all that hard work getting OS4 to run on them two test boards and all the investment made just to scam 100 people, to me it just doesn't make sense so likely whats happened is because this is only a small scale project for Varisys we might not been given priority and the fact that there was a slight design change in the motherboard and so I believe it was said 7 motherboards would be made and tested with this change before producing the 100 boards just encase a fault is found, you dont want to have to replace all them boards.

The only thing that bother me ever so slightly is perhaps they shouldn't of taken money off beta testers until the boards were 100% ready to go, and is a little worrying and should of perhaps said to beta team that they maybe a wait for delivery of the beta boards.

But I'm sure everything will work out, it might just all taken a little longer than anyone planed. But better they get it right and make a good high quality product and not the rush job eyetech did.

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