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   /  Amiga OS4.x \ Workbench 4.x
      /  Hyperion Blog update....
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PosterThread
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 12:03:43
#381 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11368
From: Norway

@Kronos

Quote:

1) make RAM above 2GB only available by special 4.2 functions. Sure sounds nice, but will complicate app-development and can end up messy (remember OS-structures are often allocated by the app and can be deeply nested)


There is already a 4.1 function for allocating system resources called AllocSysObjectTags().

Quote:

2) make sure 4GB ready apps get a different OS-function than old one
2a) allow both to access the same functions
2b) keep the APIs seperated.


It can be done by 68k stubs, and Interfaces already for years now, you don't need a new name to provided different behavior. and if a API has to limit its memory allocation to first 2Gbytes, its really not a big deal, there are special types of memory already like FAST that can be used, its for legacy anyway.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Apr-2013 at 12:04 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 12:16:58
#382 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Kronos

Quote:
- create a new messaging system not based on passing random pointers around


sounds like throwing all amiga design ideology over board. why then bother to update the system at all? box it inside uae and have it (and the rest) run upon a linux kernel with some amigalike gui reference. since when exactly looking all amiga concepts are outdated in comparison to their contemporary counterparts there is probably nothing technically worth to keep. rationally speaking there is only gains to such solution, as this will even almost give you the library of linux apps for free, without all that porting mess. its only a question where one wants to set the boundary.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 12:17:26
#383 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
Gimps

;D

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terminills 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 12:18:45
#384 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@Rob


Quote:
My Windows XP 32 system shows 3.12GB out of 4GB.


And my AROS box shows 3.8 gigs about 200 megs is used for PCI etc. but that's off topic.

Last edited by terminills on 01-Apr-2013 at 12:19 PM.

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itix 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 12:21:24
#385 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@NutsAboutAmiga

AllocSysObject() is a only simple AllocMem() wrapper. They dont have any influence to the API design, message passing system or resource sharing. The message port allocated by AllocSysObject() is still struct MsgPort. If you change this you must redesign your software accordingly.

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Plexus 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 13:40:32
#386 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 29-Sep-2003
Posts: 273
From: SWEDEN (Sverige)

@ALL

It sounds like WAWA have much to say or he want to tell something!

Wawa, I understand what you say but what do you want???????????????????????
What do you mean??? WTF can you shut the F up!



WARNING
There are variously ways to speak to someone to get your opinion across and this is a fine example of how not to do so. --- Moxee

Last edited by Moxee on 01-Apr-2013 at 06:43 PM.
Last edited by Plexus on 01-Apr-2013 at 01:41 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 13:47:55
#387 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Plexus

who are you?

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vox 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 14:12:54
#388 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@wawa

Quote:
Quote: Gimps ;D


Gimp Typing fast from a job.
No comments on "Linux ports invasion" in time when there are few apps in development and even some of Amiga software joins open source movement? It kind of hurts, but offers more productivity too ...

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 14:19:56
#389 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11368
From: Norway

@itix

AllocSysObjectTags() not AllocSysObject(), there is a difference you know.
"Tags" means it flexible.

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itix 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 14:44:01
#390 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@NutsAboutAmiga

The software, the binary and the source code, is not flexible. The software doesnt write itself neither it adapts itself to new concepts. If you change tags passed to AllocSysObjectTags() you must make sure it is not breaking anything in your software which relied on old behaviour because it can make big difference.

That is, when you use AllocSysObjectTags() you must already know what you are doing. It doesnt free you from studying new concepts and API.

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thinkchip 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 14:51:10
#391 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 1136
From: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA

@thread

You won't find a more patient group than loyal Amiga owners. They spend thousands of dollars on their machines and on Easter we get a very brief "update" with no new information. No clue of a time-line or if there even is one. Undoubtedly, the "Easter Update" will be the same next year and the year after. Amiga owners are so patient and needy that they are grateful for this crumb. "Watching grass grow" is terribly exciting compared to Amiga progress.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 14:54:24
#392 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10849
From: In the village

@thinkchip

Right, but since the corporate account is used by no less than 4 people, it's very possible questions were posed that could not be answered by the posters using the account since yesterday.
That has nothing to do with how you judge the content, but it should speak to why not all questions have been answered.

#6

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whose 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 14:55:42
#393 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Posts: 893
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:
Well I agree, but I guess they need to get one thing done before they can do some thing else, personally I love to see some improvement on icon and list sorting, and some kind of import / export def icons prefs feature, where you can make install scripts that add new data types and also updates tool type icons.


Hm, I get your point, BUT: why should they be forced to, ermh, "finish" SMP or per task separated adress spaces (or even Gallium3D!) just to make e.g. onboard sound of the X1000 working? Or to change Workbench behaviour?

Its the same as it was all the last years: open some new construction sites, but, if possible, never finish the old ones (which in turn were new ones some years back). And theres no practical use for the expanded functionality in sight, too. Just like it was with most of the old constructions sites, which were new ones back then. The fabulous GUI system for example. It works, but its not really usable. Near-to-impossible to handle for a simple user. Its just there for the sake of it. Oh, and it doesnt add to application writing, too.

There are a few positive examples, too, dos.library must be mentioned here. But it doesnt changed much in regard to the biggest problem we still have: missing AmigaOS-only application software of good quality. Mostly because of lack of proper documentation/application examples of the new functionality.

I mean, which practical use would e.g. separated address spaces have actually? Would it make the actual system (consisting of the OS components, most of them being ok so far, and mostly legacy software or lots of flawed Linux software ports) "even more" stable? Pardon me for the irony. The system itself is quite stable now, but most of the ports arent!

At least there are some efforts to make legacy software going native (PPaint for example, or ArtEffect). But these efforts are made without any changes to the OS itself actually.

Or Gallium3D: ANY AmigaOS-only software out there that could make full use of it? I dont heard of such a thing yet. A nice-to-have, but definetly NOT that essential, that all other work must be delayed or even abandoned for it.

It seems to me that more importance is given to the "we have it, too!" effect than to real world achievements.

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 15:24:06
#394 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@whose

You completely missed the point.

Driver development for all supported hardware has, a rule, been the task of the hardware manufacturer, not Hyperion Entertainment.

Which why A-EON have retained Lyle Haze to develop the driver for the onboard HD Audio for the AmigaOneX1000, by way of example. I believe A-Cube have similarly retained Ross Vumbaca for the SAM460 onboard audio.

This has no impact on AmigaOS 4.2 development as neither of them are involved in development of any of the key features scheduled for AmigaOS 4.2.

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number6 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 15:27:51
#395 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10849
From: In the village

@Hyperionmp

Quote:
Driver development for all supported hardware has, a rule, been the task of the hardware manufacturer, not Hyperion Entertainment.


You could carry that back to Forefront Technologies, the radeon drivers and the Eyetech Amigaones really. Their agreement was with Eyetech, if I recall the old posts correctly.

#6

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Spectre660 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 15:28:09
#396 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jun-2005
Posts: 3800
From: Unknown

@whose

The aim of multicore support and Gallium3d is to bring access to more raw power on current and future OS 4.x hardware.The OS will make use of this power and allow developers to do so as well.Users and potential users are always interested in raw power under the hood.I expect that you will see the effect of this when Warp3d for RadeonHD is done.I expect a serious run on the current stock of Sam460ex machines and boards at that time. .The funding for the software that we are all looking from may have to come from the hardware companies like A-eon and Acube who can only do it if they are selling machines. And they will only sell if the machines and OS have the power that users are looking for.So we come back to the OS that opens up the power in the multicore processors and graphics cards........

Last edited by Spectre660 on 01-Apr-2013 at 03:29 PM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 15:29:18
#397 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11368
From: Norway

@whose

Quote:
The fabulous GUI system for example. It works, but its not really usable. Near-to-impossible to handle for a simple user. Its just there for the sake of it. Oh, and it doesnt add to application writing, too.


Reaction has lots of examples in the SDK, MUI is has not, but then again MUI is not offical GUI, on the other hand Reaction looks nice, part of unified look, but its slow, MUI looks like s**t, but is relatively fast, QT development is interesting, and some thing I have for long time wondered about, I hope it gets faster so it becomes usable.

Quote:
But it doesnt changed much in regard to the biggest problem we still have: missing AmigaOS-only application software of good quality. Mostly because of lack of proper documentation/application examples of the new functionality.


I don't think you can blame it only on lack of documentation, but I agree, I miss some small examples in Autodocs, so you don't need to look for example after reading the documentation, so I don't need to wonder about how do provide the paramiters, and return values and structs. (Some times I wonder if autodocs might have been better in HTML whit hyper links to structs definitions.)

More impotently is that no one can make a living making software for AmigaOS, part time after work, and whit does not conflict whit social life of any kind, too few potential customers.

Quote:
mean, which practical use would e.g. separated address spaces have actually?


possibility to use more RAM, whit out having to read and write to disk, it might help if you have large game or lots graphics or some thing like that, video editing maybe, web cache.

Quote:
At least there are some efforts to make legacy software going native (PPaint for example, or ArtEffect). But these efforts are made without any changes to the OS itself actually.


Well you should not need to modify the OS every time you write application, the OS should provide what the application needs, that is the main task of a OS, there might be some new features that might be useful like Composition. Mostly its about removing the dependentcy on chipsets, and clean up the code and fix bugs.

You can also add Opus5 to that list.

Quote:
Or Gallium3D: ANY AmigaOS-only software out there that could make full use of it? I dont heard of such a thing yet. A nice-to-have, but definetly NOT that essential, that all other work must be delayed or even abandoned for it.


I agree, and if they lett me try to do some thing my self.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Apr-2013 at 03:45 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 01-Apr-2013 at 03:36 PM.

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whose 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 15:31:30
#398 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2005
Posts: 893
From: Germany

@Hyperionmp

Well, you missed MY point. Totally.

The X1000 audio driver is just ONE example of all the things that are unfinished, when new constructions sites are opened. Its totally unimportant if e.g. driver development is the duty of a hardware manufacturer or not.

Another example, maybe it makes it more clear for you: What about USB? The USB stack is still not finished. USB2 is working, more or less, but more less. Its not stable. You announced USB3, fine. But what about the general USB problems, not related to USB3 or any hardware driver? You know: Stability.

Oh, and another one, much more important for me:

Wheres the new SDK? Job of the hardware manufacturers, too?

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cgutjahr 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 15:35:11
#399 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 891
From: Unknown

I appreciate the dev team actually considering releasing some information to the masses - despite all the evil trolls. But I wonder when they will release some actual info?

So OpenGL is still software only. We saw screenshots of an early software only prototype two years ago - where's the actual progress? What's been achieved in the meantime? Why are Warp3D drivers in development, and not OpenGL/Gallium drivers?

So "experience gained developing Warp3D drivers" will help in implementing hardware OpenGL? That's nice, but not really relevant. Where are those Warp 3D drivers, btw.? Trevor had originally hoped to have them released during AmiWest - that was nearly six months ago.

So changes are made to the kernel to "facilitate" certain new technologies. That's actual info - because if you have to "facilitate" some technology, you haven't even started writing it yet. Not to mention that one of the technologies mentioned, once implemented, will "facilitate" multicore support - in other words: don't get your hopes up.

I'm assuming the X1000 buyers get separate updates about the driver situation on said machine?

Somehow, I don't really feel all that informed after reading this status update.

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Hyperionmp 
Re: Hyperion Blog update....
Posted on 1-Apr-2013 15:45:03
#400 ]
Hyperion
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 502
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

You have not been informed in general for a while now. That used to be different.

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