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Cheese 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 17:42:19
#721 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 259
From: Unknown

Hah! From the news/blog:

"Amiga programmer extraordinaire Fredrik Wikström was then commissioned to port Filesysbox over to AmigaOS. Fredrik took the original code and updated it to AmigaOS 4.1 standards."



This is more serious though:

"The software licenses require that the source code be made available so registered users can download the matching source code from Hyperion’s web site in the downloads section."

Only registered users?

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RobertJDohnert 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 17:47:21
#722 ]
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Joined: 18-Jun-2013
Posts: 199
From: Raleigh NC

Linux is in the air.

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pavlor 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 18:09:36
#723 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9094
From: Unknown

@Cheese

Quote:
Only registered users?


Time to register you copy of OS4.

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klx300r 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 18:17:44
#724 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Mar-2008
Posts: 3522
From: Toronto, Canada

hmm so we're going NTFS ? so how do we reformat our SFS & SFS/02 partitions via AmiUpdate safely??

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Daedalus 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 18:24:01
#725 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@klx300r

Quote:

klx300r wrote:
hmm so we're going NTFS ? so how do we reformat our SFS & SFS/02 partitions via AmiUpdate safely??

Why do you need to reformat? Nothing is changing regarding the existing amiga filesystems, they'll keep working exactly as they are. The main use for this as I see it, is being able to read large external hard drives which tend to be preformatted with NTFS these days...

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Kicko 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 18:24:45
#726 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 19-Jun-2004
Posts: 5009
From: Sweden

Thanks alot to all folks that worked on getting NTFS from the original code all upto working on my machine :)

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Daedalus 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 18:30:42
#727 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 1680
From: Glasgow - UK, Irish born

@Cheese

Quote:

Cheese wrote:
Hah! From the news/blog:

"Amiga programmer extraordinaire Fredrik Wikström was then commissioned to port Filesysbox over to AmigaOS. Fredrik took the original code and updated it to AmigaOS 4.1 standards."



Ummm, it does go on to explain what this means - adding functionality that AmigaOS requires to integrate the filesystem properly. What's wrong with modifying a base of code with specific support that didn't already exist so it matches a different OS? Or, to phrase it differently, updating it to meet AmigaOS standards.

Quote:
This is more serious though:

"The software licenses require that the source code be made available so registered users can download the matching source code from Hyperion’s web site in the downloads section."

Only registered users?

Maybe that's how the licence is interpreted. Might be worth reading the small print, and if you then have a problem with how the code is released, lodge a complaint.

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Rob 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 18:48:21
#728 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5858
From: S.Wales

@jorit2

Quote:
I'm afraid that when I hear one more whining about the abundance of Linux related posts ... I will have to throw up


Shush they might notice. I thought it was just a small minority of people on another forum anyway.

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Boot_WB 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 19:01:17
#729 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Daedalus

Quote:

Daedalus wrote:
@klx300r

[quote]
The main use for this as I see it, is being able to read large external hard drives which tend to be preformatted with NTFS these days...


Indeed, such as sharing whopping great USB drives filled with media, or copying data from system to system.
Backup archives too.

If the MorphOS version is anything to go by, note the limitations in the readme:

Quote:

From MorphOS NTFS3G readme:
Known issues
======================================================

o Case sensitive. The highlevel FUSE API version
of NTFS-3G does not support ignore_case option,
but maybe there could be ways to do it later.

This means some MorphOS applications will fail
as they try to load files with different case
compared to what is on disk.

o It seems NTFS3G does not use real journalling.
In case of power failure/crash volume may become
corrupted. There is no repair program available,
except on Windows, afaik.

o Protection bits will always be RWED for all files.

o No file comments.


I've not noticed any problems in daily usage of a USB storage drive (media files), but I wouldn't go editing Windows system files.

Congratulations to the developers and testers. (As users, let's hope that future bugfixes/updates/extensions can be shared in goodwill between platforms.)

Last edited by Boot_WB on 11-Feb-2014 at 07:02 PM.

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itix 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 19:28:43
#730 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@Daedalus

Quote:

Ummm, it does go on to explain what this means - adding functionality that AmigaOS requires to integrate the filesystem properly. What's wrong with modifying a base of code with specific support that didn't already exist so it matches a different OS? Or, to phrase it differently, updating it to meet AmigaOS standards.


Choice of words is funny because it was already meeting AmigaOS standards and beyond. OS4 is just using different packet standard and need few modifications.

It is important project though.

Last edited by itix on 11-Feb-2014 at 07:32 PM.

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KimmoK 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 20:16:32
#731 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@NTFS for AOS4

Great! Now I should be able to format my USB HDD to NTFS and use larger than 4GB files on it (and still continue using the drive on all of my systems)! (currently every copy fails @4GB mark, no matter what OS is used on a system)

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billt 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 20:36:06
#732 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3144
From: Maryland, USA

Quote:

Cheese wrote:

"The software licenses require that the source code be made available so registered users can download the matching source code from Hyperion’s web site in the downloads section."

Only registered users?


GPL allows anyone with the sources to provide them to anyone, if they wish to do so.

GPL does not require one to provide the source code to everyone in the universe. It does require one to provide the source code, on request, (I think for no less than 3 years), to those to which you have distributed the binaries to. GPL does not require one to distribute sources to someone that he has not distributed binaries to.

As the binaries are being provided via Amiupdate, we can reasonably assume that the binaries are thus only provided to registered users of OS4.1.

Thus, the GPL does only require them to provide the sources to those registered OS4.1 users who have received the binaries via Amiupdate.


For those of you who are not registered OS4.1 users, fear not. Surely someone who is will get the sources, and provide them to everyone, as they would be allowed to do under GPL if they wish to do so.


There are some people that cry foul even when someone does something the GPL does allow like this. Go tell the GPL license authors they did wrong when they made it that way, and tell the original software authors they did wrong when they chose the broken GPL license.

Last edited by billt on 11-Feb-2014 at 08:38 PM.

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Jupp3 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 21:50:36
#733 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1224
From: Unknown

billt wrote:
Quote:

GPL allows anyone with the sources to provide them to anyone, if they wish to do so.

GPL does not require one to provide the source code to everyone in the universe. It does require one to provide the source code, on request, (I think for no less than 3 years), to those to which you have distributed the binaries to. GPL does not require one to distribute sources to someone that he has not distributed binaries to.

As the binaries are being provided via Amiupdate, we can reasonably assume that the binaries are thus only provided to registered users of OS4.1.

Thus, the GPL does only require them to provide the sources to those registered OS4.1 users who have received the binaries via Amiupdate.

That's rather... "interesting" interpretation... Would you be so kind to point us to some references?

According to my interpretation, it doesn't really matter WHO gives the access to the binary, see f.ex. section six of the GPL V2 license (V2, as it seems to be still the most common)
Quote:
6. Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein. You are not responsible for enforcing compliance by third parties to this License.


Not saying GPL is good or bad, just saying (my interpretation of) what it says.

Of course I have no doubt that the sources will some day surface anyway (like they did with Quake 2 port too, although I doubt if they're quite up-to-date compared to the latest binary release)

Last edited by Jupp3 on 11-Feb-2014 at 09:52 PM.

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itix 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 11-Feb-2014 21:53:50
#734 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@billt

Quote:

Thus, the GPL does only require them to provide the sources to those registered OS4.1 users who have received the binaries via Amiupdate.


That is not entirely correct. Everyone who has received the binary, directly or indirectly, can receive the source code.

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#CanIDemandACopy

Quote:

If I know someone has a copy of a GPL-covered program, can I demand he give me a copy? (#CanIDemandACopy)
No. The GPL gives him permission to make and redistribute copies of the program if he chooses to do so. He also has the right not to redistribute the program, if that is what he chooses.


https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#WhatDoesWrittenOfferValid

Quote:

What does “written offer valid for any third party” mean in GPLv2? Does that mean everyone in the world can get the source to any GPL'ed program no matter what? (#WhatDoesWrittenOfferValid)
If you choose to provide source through a written offer, then anybody who requests the source from you is entitled to receive it.

If you commercially distribute binaries not accompanied with source code, the GPL says you must provide a written offer to distribute the source code later. When users non-commercially redistribute the binaries they received from you, they must pass along a copy of this written offer. This means that people who did not get the binaries directly from you can still receive copies of the source code, along with the written offer.

The reason we require the offer to be valid for any third party is so that people who receive the binaries indirectly in that way can order the source code from you.

Last edited by itix on 11-Feb-2014 at 10:22 PM.

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broadblues 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 12-Feb-2014 1:30:48
#735 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4406
From: Portsmouth England

@klx300r

Quote:

hmm so we're going NTFS ?


Ofcourse not. No more than crossdos meant we were going FAT32 Using ntfs you can transfer large files between Windows machines and AmigaOS ones.

Quote:

so how do we reformat our SFS & SFS/02 partitions via AmiUpdate safely??


All amiupdate will do is install and update the filesystem. You'd have to reformat yourself, but I really wouldn't as I'm 100% sure but I doubt that amiga protection bits will be supported. Nor is NTFS-3G renowned for it's efficiency.



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billt 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 12-Feb-2014 1:36:43
#736 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3144
From: Maryland, USA

@itix

It's been a while since I've paid so much attention, but it seems I may be mistaken. I had interpreted things as that a recipient of the binaries & source, who then redistributes the binaries, is the one for his recipients to request the sources from, not the original provider. I saw the first part of this bit, but focused there and overlooked the other parts of the FAQ some time ago, and time led to more fuzzyness.

https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#UnchangedJustBinary
Quote:
I downloaded just the binary from the net. If I distribute copies, do I have to get the source and distribute that too? (#UnchangedJustBinary)

Yes. The general rule is, if you distribute binaries, you must distribute the complete corresponding source code too. The exception for the case where you received a written offer for source code is quite limited.



For my own purposes, if I were to work on GPL code, I would distribute them together. If not in the same archive file, then nearby, such as uboot binary in my flash ROM has sources on the CD with the motherboard drivers and such. Later updates downloaded would be all in the archive together. I've not made such a thing available to anyone before, but perhaps someday.

Last edited by billt on 12-Feb-2014 at 04:04 AM.
Last edited by billt on 12-Feb-2014 at 01:49 AM.
Last edited by billt on 12-Feb-2014 at 01:41 AM.

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Boot_WB 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 12-Feb-2014 2:04:50
#737 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@billt

Same page, a little further down appears to cover this situation perfectly (outside my experience though):

Quote:
My friend got a GPL-covered binary with an offer to supply source, and made a copy for me. Can I use the offer myself to obtain the source?

Yes, you can. The offer must be open to everyone who has a copy of the binary that it accompanies. This is why the GPL says your friend must give you a copy of the offer along with a copy of the binary—so you can take advantage of it.

Last edited by Boot_WB on 12-Feb-2014 at 02:06 AM.

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Cheese 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 12-Feb-2014 5:42:42
#738 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Oct-2006
Posts: 259
From: Unknown

Well, that's settled then:

http://www.filedropper.com/ntfs3g-src-5324
http://www.filedropper.com/filesysboxlib-src-5321

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billt 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 12-Feb-2014 6:06:56
#739 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3144
From: Maryland, USA

The NTFS and Fuse/filesysbox ports are interesting to see happen. I would htink that trying to get pushed upstream into trunk of the original projects would be good exposure.

"Hey, someone made this work on Amiga? I didn't realize......."

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: An abundance of AmigaOS
Posted on 12-Feb-2014 8:32:06
#740 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11222
From: Norway

@billt

I think its normal to distribute source files in different archive.

I do it this way because in the user should not have problem finding what he want to install, and because the source code, makes the archive bigger.

Now days it maybe more and more common to use GITHUB or sourceforge.net, but issue whit this on Amiga poor support for this kind of things. Also sourceforge.net has problem whit commercial or close sourced projects.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Feb-2014 at 08:35 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Feb-2014 at 08:32 AM.

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