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      /  request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
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PosterThread
Franko 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 16:52:32
#161 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@Rose

Quote:

Rose wrote:
Now it's official.
There is no OS4 version.


Now why don't I find anything said in that thread in the least bit surprising...

If you gonna pay someone to do some work for you then you have to be pretty dumb not draw up some form of a contract and even dumber to allow the person you "contracted" to go that length of time with nothing to show for it...

I guess Bill P. isn't a very good businessman or is just too timid for his own good, either way he has only himself to blame for such a fiasco...

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eliyahu 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 17:18:33
#162 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1827
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Franko

Quote:
If you gonna pay someone to do some work for you then you have to be pretty dumb not draw up some form of a contract and even dumber to allow the person you "contracted" to go that length of time with nothing to show for it...

I guess Bill P. isn't a very good businessman or is just too timid for his own good, either way he has only himself to blame for such a fiasco...

that's cold. absence of a written contract does not negate the responsibilities of parties to a business arrangement. and blaming the wronged party is absurd.

-- eliyahu

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Rose 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 17:35:54
#163 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 714
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Quote:

eliyahu wrote:
@Franko

Quote:
If you gonna pay someone to do some work for you then you have to be pretty dumb not draw up some form of a contract and even dumber to allow the person you "contracted" to go that length of time with nothing to show for it...

I guess Bill P. isn't a very good businessman or is just too timid for his own good, either way he has only himself to blame for such a fiasco...

that's cold. absence of a written contract does not negate the responsibilities of parties to a business arrangement. and blaming the wronged party is absurd.

-- eliyahu


Given DiscreetFX's track record lately I wouldnt be so sure which one has been wronged party.

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ddni 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 17:37:32
#164 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

@Franko

Without ALL of the facts, it is wrong to point fingers in any direction.
What is sad though is that another Amiga project appears to have hit the rocks.

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cgutjahr 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 18:28:15
#165 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 892
From: Unknown

@eliyahu
Quote:

blaming the wronged party is absurd

We don't know who's the "wronged party" here. For now, we just have some claims from BillP - given his track record, I wouldn't rush off to tar and feather Deron Kazmaier yet. The dynamic DiscreetFX duo knows that Kazmeier doesn't spend much time on the net, and as Tedd so eloquently puts it: they "control the largest Amiga portal on the internet", so what's Kazmeier going to do about them putting all the blame on him?

BillP already owes money to a lot of people (example), and now he owes everybody who prepaid for Aladin v6 a refund too. He accepted hardware donations (i.e. an AmigaOne) for Aladin v6 development that need to be returned now...

And btw., in March 2012 Bill was still trying to hire somebody to work on the OS4 port of Aladdin, does this news item sound like he's paid half a year ago and hasn't heard anything from Kazmeier since then?

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DiscreetFX 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 18:40:13
#166 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1889
From: Chicago, IL

@cgutjahr

Glad you bought that ecample up, every single person in that thread already had their issues resolved. Bill was not even involved in those transactions I was. Borrowed hardware was already returned long ago. Very few took advantage of that upgrade offer which included a free 6.0. Of those one person requested a refund within the required time and got it.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 01-Aug-2012 at 06:44 PM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 01-Aug-2012 at 06:43 PM.

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eliyahu 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 18:40:19
#167 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1827
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@cgutjahr

fair enough. but for the moment i take bill at his word. i'd love to hear deron's 'side of the story' as well; hopefully he could also update us on where pagestream development is headed....

-- eliyahu

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Franko 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 18:53:56
#168 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@eliyahu

Quote:

eliyahu wrote:
@Franko

that's cold. absence of a written contract does not negate the responsibilities of parties to a business arrangement. and blaming the wronged party is absurd.

-- eliyahu


Cold maybe, truthful definitely...

Although a "verbal contract" can be considered legal in certain cases, for it to stand up in court it's up to the plaintiff to prove that ALL terms/ conditions/ services were agreed on in full beforehand. If not you haven't a hope in hell of winning such a case...

As we can only go by what Tedd Gallion (Transition) has said on Amiga.org, then suffice to say from that, this appears to be a very foolish thing to have done, especially if Bill P. parted with the money beforehand...

Responsibilities are all find & dandy but it doesn't help much if you parted with cash, had no legally binding contract or way to prove it out there in the cold harsh reality of the law...

Nothing "absurd" about anything I have said, simple common sense & facts. It's a shame he got screwed but then if you enter into deals in that manner and if something goes wrong, it's your own fault and their isn't much point in crying about it in public which strangely Bill. P isn't doing but Tedd G is...

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DiscreetFX 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 18:56:41
#169 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1889
From: Chicago, IL

@eliyahu

I would love to hear Derin's side myself but doubt he will ever tell it. I have a copy of Aladdin 4D 6.0 for OS X. Basically Deron was paid to deliver a final complete version of 6.0 but only delivered an incomplete early beta version that can't even render a single image! Rendering is the most important feature in 3D rendering software! If Bill does not mind I will give a copy of this version to anyone that wants it. See for yourself what was delivered. I highly doubt Bill cares at this point who gets a copy.

Very sad what was done to my friend pyromania.

:(

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 01-Aug-2012 at 07:02 PM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 01-Aug-2012 at 06:59 PM.

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Franko 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 18:59:01
#170 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote:
@cgutjahr

Glad you bought that ecample up, every single person in that thread already had their issues resolved. Bill was not even involved in those transactions I was. Borrowed hardware was already returned long ago. Very few took advantage of that upgrade offer which included a free 6.0. Of those one person requested a refund within the required time and got it.


Erm... now this is odd !!!

I have replied to you quite a few times on this site via your name here "DiscreetFX" and you have always made out that you were in fact Bill P. posting under that name...

Now you seem to be claiming you are Tedd Gallion (as there is no other staff at DiscreetFX) and you are posting using the same account on behalf of Bill P. !!!

So which one are you Bill P or Tedd G ???

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ddni 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 19:00:00
#171 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

@thread

I don't know how many Deron Kazmaiers there are, but if this is the guy, then good luck paying him a house visit.... Where is that place Mars???

http://www.faroutliving.com/?action=Documents&id=129

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DiscreetFX 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 19:00:34
#172 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1889
From: Chicago, IL

@Franko

Bill & I have shared this account for years, this is well known.

- Tedd

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Franko 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 19:07:23
#173 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote:
@Franko

Bill & I have shared this account for years, this is well known.

- Tedd


Not to me it wasn't... I have six PMs sitting in my account here from "DiscreetFX" and all of them claim to be written by Bill P....

So naturally I've always assumed I've been reading BIll P's post here under the name "DiscreetFX"...

Wouldn't it make a bit more sense & clarity if you both share the same account here to sign your posts so that we know which one of you is talking...

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cgutjahr 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 19:07:41
#174 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 892
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

Glad you bought that ecample up, every single person in that thread already had their issues resolved.

That's good to hear, I hope you don't mind that I'm trying to verify that claim over there.

So, after little more than a year and some public shitstorm by slaapliedje and others, the issues were resolved. Does that mean that if Deron returns your alleged call(s) in one or two months, his performance will be on par with yours?

And somehow, you failed to explain how Bill was still posting enthusiastic news items and actually trying to hire someone in march 2012, if he was already waiting for six months to see any results or get some explanation for the delays? Here's another example from March: Aladdin 4D 6.0 Technology Preview Video.

Btw., just two days ago, somebody on a German forum asked what had happend to his Amizilla donation (he was wondering if the money ended up in the Timberwolf bounty). That tells me Bill has still not informed the donors to that bounty that he closed it and used the money for other purposes?

Quote:

Borrowed hardware was already returned long ago.

I heard something else, but I'll ask again. "Donor doesn't care anymore" isn't the same as "hardware was returned", right?

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slaapliedje 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 19:16:52
#175 ]
New Member
Joined: 1-Nov-2010
Posts: 6
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Quote:
Glad you bought that ecample up, every single person in that thread already had their issues resolved


My issue hasn't been resolved, and I'm the one who created the thread! Still no refund here. I did send a PM yesterday asking the status.

slaapliedje

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DiscreetFX 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 19:19:59
#176 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1889
From: Chicago, IL

@slaapliedje

Then you are the last one, I'll ask accounting about it again. Sorry I thought it was already fixed. It's on me though, nothing to bother Bill about.

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cgutjahr 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 19:24:13
#177 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 892
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

Then you are the last one

LOL.

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Franko 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 19:29:20
#178 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote:
@slaapliedje

Then you are the last one, I'll ask accounting about it again. Sorry I thought it was already fixed. It's on me though, nothing to bother Bill about.


Accounting !!!

Is that like "DiscreetFX Labs" that were always touted on Amiga.org to make it look like you actually had dedicated staff in a dedicated room or building, which as we all found out months ago turned out to be just one guy working from his home...

Come off it Tedd, why do you play these silly little mind games that backfire badly when thing go belly up at DiscreetFX as they always do in the end...

Note: This was not written by Franko but was in fact written by his personal secretary from his Personal Administration & Public Relations Offices (Third Floor)...

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Trixie 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 21:10:34
#179 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1948
From: Czech Republic

@ddni

Quote:
I don't know how many Deron Kazmaiers there are, but if this is the guy, then good luck paying him a house visit.... Where is that place Mars???

Yes, that's him. He lives somewhere on the Dakota plains.

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AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
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Tomas 
Re: request for update: aladdin v6.0 and project metropolis
Posted on 1-Aug-2012 22:09:34
#180 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@Franko
Even though I expected it was a failure, it is still sad to see that he was ripped off that way.
Should have not paid him until at least he delivered something.

I still think you are being too hard on him though. I think he had good intentions but a tad naive when it comes to business side.

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