@Moxee

No, not bitter at all. No one here, including you is going to convince me that OS4 is a bargain at $170USD or that the X1000 is a good deal at $3000USD when it performs on par with systems from 2005....period. If you have a lot of money to spend and OS4 gives you that jolt you're looking for, then be my guest and buy it and an X1000. More power to you. I'll save my money for hobbies that make more financial sense.

Hobbys never make financial sense.....

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@Hyperionmp

Quote:

So if people can show off their Apple hardware to me, I'm not going to claim it is rubbish because their is no Flash support ...

Of course, you'd have more of a point if any of the functional browsers for OS4 actually supported HTML5.

It's not like Apple made the conscious decision to not support flash-like scripting at all. They just decided to support it in a different, open-standards way.

Comparing the state of browsing on OS4 to the state of browsing on an iPad by saying "hey, look, both are missing flash, so it's the same" is either naive, or disingenuous...

Last edited by umisef on 03-Sep-2011 at 02:08 PM.

@ferrels

Quote:

ferrels wrote: @Moxee No, not bitter at all. No one here, including you is going to convince me that OS4 is a bargain at $170USD or that the X1000 is a good deal at $3000USD when it performs on par with systems from 2005....period. If you have a lot of money to spend and OS4 gives you that jolt you're looking for, then be my guest and buy it and an X1000. More power to you. I'll save my money for hobbies that make more financial sense.

OS4 is not a bargain, but is neither cheapest nor most expensive OS. Its about the price of MorphOS for example (maybe a bit higher) which shows that OS to be developed need certain price range. The price could drop if the OS would be widely used for sure (sold more copies) but until that time this is the way to sustain it.

Neither X1000 is "cheap deal" but will be most powerful NG Amiga system
and only Semi desktop board, which makes it quite unique.

Comparing it to widely used mass produced hardware will never make sense,
as it simply isn`t. If you are looking for better price / performance you know your picks: buy most expensive Mac or branded PC and yet you will not have anything different and not even special in year or two. Consumerism has made everything look cheap but quickly obsolete and downpriced too.

Looking that way Mac`s hardware or Commodore USA hardware might also look way overpriced, or Windows for OS that comes with crappy browser, no dual core support in versions lower then 150 euros, no good text editor, crappy defragmenter etc.

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@ggw

Quote:

ggw wrote: @K-L Metal Heart is right about ImageFX. I know when I start it up that I will be rebooting in an hour or so. Just start adding text to your images... it won't be long! .

Check the Version of the Text Hook (in the ImageFX/hooks/sys drawer) If it's 4.5.79 there is a newer one (4.6) on the ImageFX 4.5 Studio CD (possibly on earlier CD's as well.....).
Open the CD and goto Disk4/Hooks1.lha

Extract to RAM (or wherever you want).

In the Hook/Sys Drawer in RAM there is the Text Hook (Version will be 4.6).

Simply RE-name the Text Hook in the IFX/hooks to Text_OLD (or whatever) and drag the new version across.

I'm not using OS4 so cannot comment if this will work wonders, but it has done on my WinUAE/OS3.x setup. No more random crashes or graphical glitches. Well not due to the Text hook anyway......

@Metalheart

Your thread has taken off but I must say I wholeheartedly agree with you.

Epsecially with programs that run in old fashioned terminals. There are so many tools these days to create a GUI with. I've even wrote my own layout engine based on GadTools. And before OS4 came around the standard in Amiga programs was to have a GUI as that was of the big features of the Amiga. Remember when computing was fun? Yeah when I bought nmy A1200!

@Metalheart

Sorry to hear of your woes. Interestingly, I have perhaps the kludgiest AmigaOne software wise that has ever existed, with perhaps 80% or more of my apps and games being "old" Amiga 68k software hacked and patched in to the system to make it work.
I installed OS4_1 update 3 onto my system (after backing up my sys partition!) and lo and behold, everything worked just fine straight away!
Before anyone condemns me for having old flaky 68k apps all over my machine, please understand that one of my favorite things to do is test old apps for compatibility on OS4, particularly the latest releases. I used to be both a software developer and a software test engineer for many years, and testing programs and fixing them to work is my idea of fun and relaxing! Yes, its a sickness really.....
So although you may come to the conclusion that many old apps are evil or dangerous, be aware that it is likely that you have a few issues from old apps that are causing you serious problems, but a LOT of old stuff works just fine, amazingly so.

Again, Hyperion and the OS4 developers deserve our gratitude and accolades for releasing update 3. So far on my system the update 3 changes seem to be nearly invisible, perhaps I have a few less DSIs from ramlib support errors, but there is not a lot of flashy change in this update, and I suspect it is mostly deep down fixes that needed to be made.

Good work OS4 developers! Thank you for continuing to support the Amiga One!

Scott

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@Hypex

Thanks !

@scabit

Wanna share some of your knowledge of getting old stuff to run ? Maybe you can set up a website or a guide in wich you summarise and explain how to get some of the most important to run.
Maybe taking requests from other users to help them getting things running ?

Cheers

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@kas1e

Quote:

Freetime apps for freetime OS :) It will be always like this .. just from time to time better or worse.

I don't buy it. That's a lame excuse! Especially in light of the Linux world where lots of features are offered for free.

As an example I checked out the OS4 version of DiskSpeed. Apparently it has a GUI but it was taken out of the OS4 version. We also have NallePUH and the GUI was take out of that.

This flows onto other things. For example it's good that Elbox have released an updated USB driver, but do they provide an installer? My friend put it on his system and he said there is no change to his USB as it doesn't work. Well If you can't provide proper software to install the driver why bother to write it in the first place and worse charge money for it! I've written installed scripts in AmigaDOS. It ain't that hard! Easier then C! No excuse. And this example is technical.

This situation has to change. Because this is on "Amiga" it's like that's some kind of lame excuse these days to treat the users like crap! Or expect them to trace all sorts of files to get a program to work. This just isn't on. It has to be fixed up. Not all Amiga users are tech heads either. It's ridiculous to expect them to be and to follow cryptic manual install instructions. It's getting even more ridiculous when my Amiga friends contact me to install what should be a simple Amiga program or driver. And even I am taken aback sometimes what they expect a normal user to do!

Perhaps what I say hear may sound hurtful or upsetting given it's the "Amiga" community. Well you know what they say about the truth? The truth hurts. And in this case it really does. And this truth hurts the Amiga communuty as well.

If Amiga developers don't get their act together there will be no point to the X1000. That will be an expensive machine, either way. But it won't be the price that will kill it. It will be the lack of Amiga software being up to "Classic" Amiga standards! People pay a bit to invest in the Amiga and I think it's high time they were rewarded! We should have software that installs easily and is easy to use because it is written the "Amiga" way with a GUI. Otherwise the Amiga will fade away and right now that candle is waning!

@Metalheart

Scabit had several threads on 68k programs.
And we've had a lot of tutorials on AW based on some of the most used 68k programs.

Use this to search by program name in keyword or author name scabit:
http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/search.php

Some general links for 68k:

Essential 68k s/w for OS4

Even more classic programs that run on OS4 Final on an AmigaOne - Updated June 2, 2007

classic Programs that run under OS4 Final on an AmigaOne - Updated April 28, 2007

Basically every popular 68k program has multiple threads. If you don't find the program you are looking for in search, just post in one of the above linked threads.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 03-Sep-2011 at 03:36 PM.

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@samo79

Quote:

Of course an ISO would have been better however every operating system needs a minimum of maintenance to be completely enjoyable, and if you install and set it (and mantain) properly all goes well, so don't give up ...

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

I don't need another reinstall where I have to spend hours setting up my system again! I don't want to see another OS4 ISO until they write a settings migrator!

@Hypex

Quote:

If Amiga developers don't get their act together there will be no point to the X1000. That will be an expensive machine, either way. But it won't be the price that will kill it. It will be the lack of Amiga software being up to "Classic" Amiga standards! People pay a bit to invest in the Amiga and I think it's high time they were rewarded! We should have software that installs easily and is easy to use because it is written the "Amiga" way with a GUI. Otherwise the Amiga will fade away and right now that candle is waning!

Developers get their act together? Users rewarded for paying dearly for hardware? Bold words. Who is going to reward the developer?

Quote:

Perhaps what I say hear may sound hurtful or upsetting given it's the "Amiga" community. Well you know what they say about the truth? The truth hurts. And in this case it really does. And this truth hurts the Amiga communuty as well.

The truth is that there are few users, few developers and very few companies around. That is not likely to change in the foreseeable future. With these prices I think it can only get worse.

EDIT:
Spelling.

EDIT 2:
I have acknowledged the problem earlier, so I am aware of it as well.

Last edited by zerohero on 03-Sep-2011 at 04:39 PM.
Last edited by zerohero on 03-Sep-2011 at 04:25 PM.

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@HYPEX
Quote:

I don't buy it. That's a lame excuse! Especially in light of the Linux world where lots of features are offered for free.

How anyone in clear mind, can compare "free linux world with x86 / MP / resource tracking and all the modern stuff/apps and milions users and developers, with commercical usage of the Linux everythere", with "non free amigaos/morphos, without MP, without x86, ppc only, old, with really rare roots which we trying to re-solve till now, without any commercical using, without users and developers" ? There is no excuse at all, there is brutal truth : most of amigaos and morphos developers (if not all) are just spare/free time developers. I say most, because from what HyperionMP say, friden brothers are full-time workers. But 2 developers are not enough for making modern OS, for sure. The same going to any new apps which released in last years. They in 95% have bugs, problems, and need to wait sometime for years, to have fixed one or another bug.

That what i call : "freetime apps, for freetime OS" (and that not only amigaos4, but also about morphos, and in general about AROS as well). Because of this, we all the time will have small problems, little glitches, and bugs, which need fix, fix, fix and fix. And that will be like this till new blood somehow will come here.

Quote:

We also have NallePUH and the GUI was take out of that.

NallePUH not works anymore , since first aos4.1 releases. And i assume you will never finish Ciagent , just because of no time, no energy and other problems :) (free time developer :) ).

Quote:

This situation has to change. Because this is on "Amiga" it's like that's some kind of lame excuse these days to treat the users like crap! Or expect them to trace all sorts of files to get a program to work. This just isn't on. It has to be fixed up. Not all Amiga users are tech heads either. It's ridiculous to expect them to be and to follow cryptic manual install instructions. It's getting even more ridiculous when my Amiga friends contact me to install what should be a simple Amiga program or driver. And even I am taken aback sometimes what they expect a normal user to do!

To be honest, its all not _THAT_ problematic if you mean installers and lib deps only. Just release everything in one archive, and use only libs from PROGDIR:libs/ firstly. No need for any installer or anything, just unpack and run.

Installing 3d party libs, its really not problem right now. Right now problems are no protection of necessary os components to avoid crashes, freezes and lockup, all those opengl , smp and other stuff. So, i think developers will even not worry about for some

Quote:

People pay a bit to invest in the Amiga and I think it's high time they were rewarded! We should have software that installs easily and is easy to use because it is written the "Amiga" way with a GUI.

Gui-shmui .. I read from all the developers in last 2 years how limited reaction in that and that areas, to make modern GUI apps, and MUI was a bit anctient till now, so how you expect to have amigaos full of fancy and cool gui programms ?

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@kas1e

Quote:

kas1e wrote: @Metalheart X1000 will not solve any problems which we have with the OS and the software itself. HW will be faster, but problems with crashes, reboots, and no flash/java/wordprocessor will be present the same as it now.

It is still more stable than 3.x ever was.
I think one of the main problems is that some people use buggy hardware.
I really hope they find a way to implement memory protection somehow though.
And i agree about the lack of flash and java. At least we should hopefully be getting that open office lite soon.

Last edited by Tomas on 03-Sep-2011 at 07:05 PM.

@Tomas

Quote:

It is still more stable than classic ever was for me on my sam 440ep system.

This statement doesn't make sense? What do you mean?

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@ferrels

Quote:

ferrels wrote: @hotrod I agree with you totally. I'm also still an Amiga fan, believe it or not, just not a wealthy one. And I do think that AEON and Hyperion are taking advantage of loyal enthusiasts simply because they can. It's a shame really, and ultimately Hyperion and AEON will paint themselves into a corner. The number of users will continue to shrink due to high prices, which will only drive the price of new hardware and OS versions higher as well. It's a death spiral and I hate to see the Amiga go down this way. Financially, the only Amiga variant that make sense to me is AROS. True, it isn't a PPC system, but even the old Macintosh diehards swallowed their pride and eventually embraced x86 hardware when Apple decided to shift to Intel hardware. Ask a single one of those guys if they'd go back to using a PPC system. The answer will be no.

So I guess that is why they continue to improve the OS by developing it further?
It takes time for a small team to bring 90s software up to current standards.
It is already more stable than classic ever was if you have stable hardware to run it on.

And AROS is still way behind OS4.1 both when it comes to stability and software support.

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote: @kas1e Flash is not even supported on any Apple mobile devices such as the iPad or iPhone and that was a conscious design decision by Steve Jobs himself. So if people can show off their Apple hardware to me, I'm not going to claim it is rubbish because their is no Flash support ...

And that is one of the reasons why i stay the hell away from Apple products.

There are still loads of sites and services that require flash and i doubt that is going to change anytime soon.

@zerohero
Sorry :P What i meant is that OS4.1 for me is more stable than classic was on any classic system.
I of course never ran classic on my sam.

@Tomas

Makes much more sense now.

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@Hypex

Yes me too but when i risk to make my system instable (for any reason) i always prefer to install it from scratch, maybe just maybe the best solution has to be make availible an update and an ISO

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