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Belxjander 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 31-May-2012 18:00:27
#101 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2005
Posts: 557
From: Chiba prefecture Japan

@NutsAboutAmiga

I'm going to deal with "virtual address space" handling with regards segments inside the Emulation,
but try to map this using real addressing during operation.

so where possible there should remain a usable system without hacking the kernel (I'm also faking a kernel for the applications concerned)

each of the "bytecode"s is being interpreted initially as I need to rework the recompilation aspects of the design to account for the difference in CPU

the "virtual memory" mapping of the Emulated CPU is to be faked using the "real memory" mapping provided by the underlying AmigaOS is what I can recall right now,
I am referring to my notes as I am proceeding, just to make sure there are as few problems as possible.

@all

I am aware I have been putting it functions that are empty... I'm trying to deal with using GCC on the PPC with Inline Assembly (this part I am unfamiliar with) and have been working without compilation or testing stages for the existing codebase,

I'm also currently aware of what state the codebase itself is in and I am trying to focus on those sections with code to make sure I get each and every detail I can as "correct" to what is required as I enter it.

I am also currently reworking some of the function definitions to allow for differences on the updated system and trying to do so without losing compatability with the older system in the process.

I'm still proceeding... and don't mind that some members of the community are critical towards the projects I am undertaking.

I would hope that being open to such criticism and showing code to express the ideas and design may explain more of what I have in mind beyond those blog entries and forum postings I have explained here.

I am also well aware that I don't write "perfect" code, who does?, I also accept that my attempts at explaining my ideas (along with the loss of prior work) may come across confusing.
I think of it as my own failure in trying to communicate what I have in mind clearly.

feel free to mock, jeer or otherwise throw sarcastic comments at the bitbucket all you like...
I'm only going to promise to do my best and let the community decide how worthwhile the result is since I am making the source openly available.

as for "hacking the OS" the only "system patch" I see as required for Polymorph-VM would be applied to "dos.library/LoadSeg()" as a filter on failure results. (only when the normal OS call fails is Polymorph to actively do anything and provide valid material.)

Beyond this I am well aware I will have to deal with writing "wine" style libraries that use an Emulated CPU specific mechanism for certain "syscall" operations.

Because of all of the above I do not expect there to be any real acceptance by the community for this project until it shows how it will be useful as an arbitrary processing library.
I do accept that I have been unclear in my explanations so far.

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resle 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 31-May-2012 18:51:23
#102 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@jorkany

Quote:

void InitPolymorphDaemon(void)
{
return;
}


Well this is some extremely efficient code: I bet this function takes almost nothing to complete on his new Sam 440.

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Belxjander 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 31-May-2012 19:04:41
#103 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2005
Posts: 557
From: Chiba prefecture Japan

@resle

that is not yet filled out and I will be getting my hands on the sam440 (second hand, *not* new other than to me) kit by the 3rd or 4th of June,

at which time I can start filling in a lot of those "blank" routines with tested functionality.

I'm also trying to make sure I have a fixed definition around the inline PPC assembly fragments as well.
as those are core material in the "emucalls.c" files.

I've currently posted up only "work in progress" material and have yet to actually run GCC directly myself (the volunteer on the wiki has only run a build process for me a couple of times for a single session for which I am grateful for)

I can understand the community being highly negative, but even in showing code and trying to explain an idea (even after loss of the proof of concept which I know doesn't help).

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resle 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 31-May-2012 19:09:20
#104 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@Belxjander

I'm not highly negative! I'm a prick :)

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Belxjander 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 31-May-2012 19:11:54
#105 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2005
Posts: 557
From: Chiba prefecture Japan

@resle

Well... all guys get that label for having them... what else is "new" about that ?

Do you have anything in particular that you would like to know further about all this or shall I keep at coding a baby cthulthu ?

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Belxjander 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 30-Jun-2012 10:14:44
#106 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2005
Posts: 557
From: Chiba prefecture Japan

@Belxjander

Keymap (98% complete) pushed to a thread on Hyperion's forums,
free for anyone to use (currently missing 4 keys, only 1 is normally required for typing)
and a workaround is present for the missing key (use alt or shift+alt to type | on the /\ keys)

The workarounds only affect Japanese Layout Keyboards otherwise ignorable.

I am still actively working on Perception-IME and Polymorph-VM functionality,

Does anyone have any examples of GCC Inline Assembly that works? I keep getting what I try thrown out by the compiler (and the documentation seems very unhelpful)

Anyway... I'm still working on this, and have the sam440 with me in Japan now (managed to get here just before my son was born by 3 days, phew!)

Hope everyone else has good things that can be shared...

Anyway... feel free to comment on any code shown so far (I haven't put in any actual OOP class material yet... thats coming...)

I don't have the sam itself hooked to an Internet connection right now but I will be working on that soon enough... hopefully to show a lot more updates with proper source functions more complete.

I don't expect anyone to grok the design just yet... but I am being a picky son of a b*ch for design reasons... and thank you to everyone for showing that this community hasn't "gone sour" yet...

I'll keep at it. hopefully being able to show something of the capabilities in the design by the end of this year.

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Karlos 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 30-Jun-2012 10:40:07
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@Belxjander

You may find this helpful.

http://www.ibiblio.org/gferg/ldp/GCC-Inline-Assembly-HOWTO.html

It's mostly aimed at x86, but the __asm__ construct works the same regardless of which CPU you are coding for, the only bit you really need to understand is the operand mapping and constraints.

The general structure is

__asm__ (
assembler template
: output operands
: input operands
: list of clobbered registers/memory/etc
);

GCC's inline assembler allows you to write your assembler template with placeholders for variables and references and it decides which registers to put them into when the construct is parsed. This allows it to work your asm code into the bigger picture more effectively, but there are times when you need to be able to specify exactly what you want it to do, and that's when you need to understand how and when to specify registers, memory operands and so on. The document above describes this.

You might also want to avoid GCC from modifying your asm during optimisation, in which case you should __volatile__ as a qualifier too.

As a really trivial example, here's an example function that's part of a driver operation that has to read a 32-bit word from a given address and byteswap it. It would be easy to write some C code for this, but as it happens, the PPC has a single load instruction that can be used:


static inline uint32 get32swapped(void* clr)
{
/* We can make some use of the PowerPC's load byteswapped operation here */
register uint32 c;
__asm__ __volatile__ (
"lwbrx %0, %%r0, %1"
: "=&r"(c)
: "r"(clr)
);
return c;
}


In this example, I don't care which register is used for either operand because this call is inlined wherever it is used and the compiler will choose appropriate registers on a per case basis. If I had specified them directly (r0 is a special use case in the above), they might collide with ones it has already allocated at this point and it would have to add code to juggle them before introducing my code.

_________________
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resle 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 18-May-2013 4:24:55
#108 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@Belxjander

Quote:
****FINAL*PAYMENT**** has been made... I am now only waiting on the seller to post and the system kit to arrive... I will be recording system construction and setup... along with development setup, Hopefully this will help explain some of the peculiarties with the sam board series and provide some means of basic problem resolution when setting up AmigaOS4.x based systems. Additionally I won't need further Volunteers for build testing, however anyone may volunteer to try out any of the tools and libraries I write up if feedback can be reported... Please report what feedback you can good or bad if you choose to test what I begin releasing after I have tested it as functional at least for my own setup.


It was may the first 2012! One year has gone. One glorious year with the Sam a bunch of naive souls paid for you.

So hey, where's Polymorph?
Your dearest friend,

resle

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Belxjander 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 18-May-2013 5:29:43
#109 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Jan-2005
Posts: 557
From: Chiba prefecture Japan

@resle

Still actively being written... you can checkout the sources and build it anytime you want to see what prorgess there is

I'm working on the Loader Plugin bindings at this time (trying to make sure I patch LoadSeg() in dos.library 100% properly without breaking anything)

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resle 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 18-May-2013 6:03:01
#110 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

@Belxjander

I had a look into the "code".

Luckily for you, a very very small percentage of users are developers, and most certainly not the ones who donated.

Enough said, see you on May 18 2014.

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Yo 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 18-May-2013 10:44:15
#111 ]
Team Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2004
Posts: 2043
From: France, on an ADSL line

@resle

Quote:
It was may the first 2012! One year has gone. One glorious year with the Sam... So hey, where's Polymorph?


While I certainly can't speak for Belx being tardy with his codework, nor can I necessarily excuse it, I can perhaps suggest an explanation. Belx and his Japanese wife have a new baby. There is a slight communication problem, sometimes, as Belx isn't fluent in Japanese and wife doesn't speak English. I would think living in Japan is trying enough for someone not conversant with the Mother Tongue, throw a newborn into the mix adds a higher stress level. So, possibly chillax on the judgemental attitude and cut the guy a bit of slack here. I'm certain if you found yourself wearing the same pair of shoes, you'd find them just as uncomfortable.

Thanks in advance for the kind consideration. There are far too few developers in this tiny community, let's not sully the ones that remain.

_________________
Official Hyperion Zealot

(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.)

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OlafS25 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 18-May-2013 12:49:26
#112 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5754
From: Unknown

@Yo

just one general comment from me because in another thread someone again asked to donate a SAM to System 3 so they will port their games to AmigaOS then... Commercial companies and developers buy their own hardware and will not support a platform because they get some hardware for free but because they expect a market for their products. The same is the case for hobby developers. The hardware should be lent for a certain amount of time but not given for free on the base of vague promises. It will always lead to frustration at the donators. My opinion is there should be two or three Sams that are sent to certain developers but only for a certain task and amount of time. Just my 2 (or 3) cents.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-May-2013 at 12:51 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 18-May-2013 at 12:50 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 18-May-2013 13:31:31
#113 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@Yo

Quote:
Belx and his Japanese wife have a new baby.

as kas1e usually says we all have our lives. no problem, but there are some among us who like to talk big and gather money or organize bounties for some imaginary projects. there is a saying, judge people by their actions not by their words. in this respect the scene has still few serious contributors left, no matter on os4, mos, aros or genuine amiga. but there are pretenders. i dont think we need them or actually need to support them.

Quote:
There are far too few developers in this tiny community, let's not sully the ones that remain.

then support the right ones, those who do something, supporting pretenders and unrealistic projects is demoralizing the scene, that has been ridden with scam forever and it is certainly frustrating for those real developers left, who mostly ask for nothing.

@belxjander
could you leave aros and aros team in peace, please? what do we need you porlymorph for?

Last edited by wawa on 18-May-2013 at 01:32 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 18-May-2013 at 01:31 PM.

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wawa 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 18-May-2013 13:34:36
#114 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

as an off hand example of a worthy contributor who deserves support:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=37677&forum=32

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resle 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 24-Apr-2015 3:17:30
#115 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

polymorph oh polymorph where are you

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Karlos 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 5-Dec-2016 16:24:30
#116 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

So, what became of these projects in the end?

_________________
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kas1e 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 5-Dec-2016 17:49:55
#117 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3425
From: Russia

@Karlos

Quote:

So, what became of these projects in the end?


Are you for real ?:) Everything happens as we say in that thread few years ago on first pages :)

_________________
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zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

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Karlos 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 6-Dec-2016 15:42:50
#118 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Aug-2003
Posts: 2020
From: As-sassin-aaate! As-sassin-aaate! Ooh! We forgot the ammunition!

@kas1e

Take the money and run, huh?

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fishy_fis 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 7-Dec-2016 5:52:31
#119 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1899
From: Australia

@Karlos

We (myself and kas1e) didn't warn people that they'd be throwing their money for no reason. We knew this is how things would eventuate based on years of history and experience with belxjander.
Can't say I'm happy to have been right, but I knew it'd pan out this way.
Even without the benefit of knowledge of the guy is it any great surprise? He could barely define his own fantasy software, let alone discuss it with people who understood the kind of things required to implement it.

I wouldn't mind an a1x5000 if others are willing to pay for it. Give me a few days to create a fantasy piece of software that sounds impressive, where I can talk above others (so I don't need to clearly define it) and we'll arrange a bounty. :)

Last edited by fishy_fis on 07-Dec-2016 at 05:53 AM.

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resle 
Re: Perception IME + Polymorph VM bounties...
Posted on 7-Dec-2016 7:26:46
#120 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2005
Posts: 500
From: shanghai

polymorph is coming in may 2017 on arix, for natami.

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