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wawa 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 25-Oct-2016 22:29:09
#881 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5987
From: Unknown

@Beans

Depends how you define those ng workloads. Looks like its mostly defined with being able to listen to audiostreams, view some videos, and browse some net halfaway, plus be able to play doom and quake.. Because thats what seems to break down to whats possible with the ng. All of above might be within reach for vampire to certain extent with the bonus being legacy compatible solution, where it may count less if you are already watching hd or only vga type of resolutions.

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mbrantley 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 25-Oct-2016 22:30:51
#882 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 10-Jun-2010
Posts: 523
From: Mobile, Alabama, United States

Gee willikers, everybody is always fussing about what everybody else is doing around here. I enjoy the X1000 and OS4, and I enjoy my classic Amigas. Lately I also have been having a ball with my little Mist FPGA computer. I cannot wait to get a Vampire as well. All this stuff is great fun, if you ask me. What's the friggin' deal? One effort does not hurt the other.

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gregthecanuck 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 26-Oct-2016 5:54:13
#883 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 30-Dec-2003
Posts: 792
From: Vancouver, Canada

@mbrantley

Absolutely!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAomAwIwxm8

Last edited by gregthecanuck on 26-Oct-2016 at 05:55 AM.

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Beans 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 26-Oct-2016 11:12:26
#884 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@wawa

Quote:
where it may count less if you are already watching hd or only vga type of resolutions.


Pretty much, since most NG systems can handle 720p video and a few can handle 1080p video,.
Then there is the matter of high resolution 32bit color screens, 16 bit audio, more modern browsers, OpenGL support, support for modern hardware like SATA hard drives, I could go on quite a while here...

But legacy support, yeah vampire is very useful there.
And I keep an A2000 and a CD32 around for a reason.

So I'm not going to be one of the polarized morons.

I can support both.

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tlosm 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 26-Oct-2016 11:18:50
#885 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2533
From: Amiga land

@Beans

Quote:
Pretty much, since most NG systems can handle 720p video and a few can handle 1080p video,.


NG amigas can handle 4k 3d video too what is missing are only video decoder accelerations in hw that are full present in LE architecture (yes it is present on Power8)
Note: from mesa 13 on linux ppc im start have the Vdpau working on mp4 decoding on my gpu.

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Dandy 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 31-Oct-2016 12:36:20
#886 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@ne_one

Quote:

ne_one wrote:
@Rob

...
Development needs to focus on the software so that the market will evolve and expand.
...



I don't think it is easy as that.

If you want to develop Amiga software, you need some kind of hardware to run that software on.

I personally would prefer modern, powerful and affordable hardware.

But to take full advantage of this new, affordable HW, you would have to modernise the OS first, e.g. by adding 64 Bit and multicore ability.

If you now come up with the argument to use emulation on PC hardwarware to do so, I'd reply that in this case I think it would be better to port the OS to this HW and run it natively on that HW.

But this still does not magically solve the problem of the lacking software.

And how long shall this take, given the current pace of AOS development?
I'm already 59 and may be dead until this task is halfway done...

So I think I (we?) would end up dropping AOS entirely and use one of those OSses instead that are already available and evolved enough to take full advantage of this modern HW and furthermore have enough productive software available...

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
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ne_one 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 1-Nov-2016 5:00:59
#887 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 793
From: Unknown

@Dandy

Quote:
But to take full advantage of this new, affordable HW, you would have to modernise the OS first, e.g. by adding 64 Bit and multicore ability...

So I think I (we?) would end up dropping AOS entirely and use one of those OSses instead that are already available and evolved enough to take full advantage of this modern HW and furthermore have enough productive software available...


Or have it both ways by gazing through the A.L.I.C.E looking glass.

Instead of confronting the monumental task of updating or porting the existing OS why not put it/leave it in maintenance mode and provide interoperability with its successor?

So where would the foundation for this next generation, modern AmigaOS come from?

We actively pillage from one particular source when it suits our needs. Browsers, device drivers, office suites, graphics applications etc.

Heck, we even have a close cousin OS that was developed by a very influential Amigan using principles from his experience working with the platform.

Apple figured this out a decade ago and it seemed to work out pretty well for them.

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Dandy 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 9-Nov-2016 12:45:01
#888 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Mar-2003
Posts: 3049
From: Cologne * Germany

@ne_one

Quote:

ne_one wrote:
@Dandy

Quote:


But to take full advantage of this new, affordable HW, you would have to modernise the OS first, e.g. by adding 64 Bit and multicore ability...

So I think I (we?) would end up dropping AOS entirely and use one of those OSses instead that are already available and evolved enough to take full advantage of this modern HW and furthermore have enough productive software available...



Or have it both ways by gazing through the A.L.I.C.E looking glass.



Isn't A.L.I.C.E. a WIntel laptop with AmigaForever/UAE installed?
I don't like laptops.

But I can install AmigaForever on my given quadcore core i5 PC instead and have the same result...

Quote:

ne_one wrote:

Instead of confronting the monumental task of updating or porting the existing OS why not put it/leave it in maintenance mode and provide interoperability with its successor?



I understand what you mean.
But then the OS would remain in "maintenance mode" forever and would never evolve.
If that's what you wish...


Quote:

ne_one wrote:

So where would the foundation for this next generation, modern AmigaOS come from?
...




What "next generation, modern AmigaOS"?
Didn't you just write "Instead of confronting the monumental task of updating or porting the existing OS why not put it/leave it in maintenance mode..."?

What now - leaving it in maintenance mode or advancing it by adding modern features like 64 Bit and multicore support?

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Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

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ne_one 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 9-Nov-2016 20:12:44
#889 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 793
From: Unknown

@Dandy

Quote:
Isn't A.L.I.C.E. a WIntel laptop with AmigaForever/UAE installed?


I'm referring to the paradigm of providing interoperability between systems, not the actual package.

It's impractical to continue to update a 30 year old operating system. So... continue to provide maintenance updates and provide support through emulation for backward compatibility.

Quote:
What "next generation, modern AmigaOS"? Didn't you just write "Instead of confronting the monumental task of updating or porting the existing OS why not put it/leave it in maintenance mode..."?


A next generation AmigaOS doesn't exist - that's the whole point. It should.

The resources are simply not there to bring a legacy solution up-to-date.

The only real alternative is to follow the precedents of others that have confronted this same situation. Apple is clearly the standout example.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 9-Nov-2016 21:01:38
#890 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 894
From: Unknown

@ne_one

Quote:
A next generation AmigaOS doesn't exist - that's the whole point. It should.


MorphOS "4.0"?

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Beans 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 9-Nov-2016 21:07:13
#891 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@TRIPOS

Quote:
MorphOS "4.0"?


Optimist, I'd settle for v.3.10.

What about Amiga OS4.2?

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ne_one 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 9-Nov-2016 21:18:07
#892 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 793
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

Quote:
MorphOS "4.0"?


I'm not privy to what's coming in the MorphOS universe but it would have to make a quantum leap forward to address current requirements and continue to evolve.

And no, I'm not suggesting in any way that a modern AmigaOS must be competitive with other platforms - it would have to meet modern requirements and become viable.

The issue ultimately comes down to how much the AmigaOS needs vs. how much Amiga-ness needs to be preserved.

I'm suggesting that the first list is far longer than the second one - and that's really not a bad thing.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 9-Nov-2016 21:20:52
#893 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 894
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:

Beans wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
MorphOS "4.0"?


Optimist, I'd settle for v.3.10.

What about Amiga OS4.2?


And you were calling me "optimist"?

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TRIPOS 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 9-Nov-2016 21:45:30
#894 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 894
From: Unknown

@ne_one

Quote:

ne_one wrote:
@TRIPOS

Quote:
MorphOS "4.0"?


I'm not privy to what's coming in the MorphOS universe but it would have to make a quantum leap forward to address current requirements and continue to evolve.

And no, I'm not suggesting in any way that a modern AmigaOS must be competitive with other platforms - it would have to meet modern requirements and become viable.

The issue ultimately comes down to how much the AmigaOS needs vs. how much Amiga-ness needs to be preserved.

I'm suggesting that the first list is far longer than the second one - and that's really not a bad thing.


This has officially (and publically) been on the MorphOS development agenda for at least 5 years. It sems to be exactly what you are asking for. They are doing it.

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OlafS25 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 10-Nov-2016 11:35:09
#895 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5222
From: Unknown

@TRIPOS

they are doing it?

Anything shown already?

Any official decision about ARM or AMD64?

I can only remember geit saying that it is years away. A little vague, don´t you think?

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TRIPOS 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 10-Nov-2016 14:38:23
#896 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 894
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@TRIPOS

they are doing it?


So they say (several key developers, repeatedly, and independently of each other), and I have never had any reason to not believing them.




Quote:
Anything shown already?


Nope.

Not explicitly at least. Maybe some things are already there or being worked on as part as current releases, I don't know. One thing I could think of is MUI 5, which biggest changes are indeed internal, like further intuition integration, etc. Preparations for an SMP GUI (for example) could be part of this. GFX drivers for cards beyond AGP could definitely be seen as part of an "NG" effort, since this monumental effort just to support a PowerMac G5, Sam460 and Amigaone X5000 would not really be worth the effort IMHO. Preparations of the entire code base for 64-bit could perhaps have taken place or being a work in progress, even though compiled as/for 32-bit ATM?


Quote:
Any official decision about ARM or AMD64?


Yes, it is AMD64 (again, not necessarily meaning CPU's coming from AMD, but the rather 64-bit "x86" standard (a.k.a. "x64", "x86-64", etc)). At least one desktop, and at least one laptop supported at the time of release, and as you know the important thing about that in today's highly integrated designs is really the chipset family.

Quote:
I can only remember geit saying that it is years away. A little vague, don´t you think?



Indeed no ETA. IIRC there has only been one occasion of the MorphOS Team giving an ETA in advance. That time they released it just hours (minutes?) from breaking it. Giving ETA's are not their style. Neither roadmaps. In fact, what we know about the upcoming x64 release may not be much, but still quite much in comparison to what they usually communicate in advance.

Anyway, on every occasion this subject comes up, you always comment the same things, completely ignoring the few things we do know.

So bye for now, until the next time, when we'll go through this once again...

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wawa 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 10-Nov-2016 17:27:54
#897 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5987
From: Unknown

Quote:

TRIPOS wrote:
@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@TRIPOS

they are doing it?


So they say (several key developers, repeatedly, and independently of each other), and I have never had any reason to not believing them.




Quote:
Anything shown already?


Nope.

Not explicitly at least. Maybe some things are already there or being worked on as part as current releases, I don't know. One thing I could think of is MUI 5, which biggest changes are indeed internal, like further intuition integration, etc. Preparations for an SMP GUI (for example) could be part of this. GFX drivers for cards beyond AGP could definitely be seen as part of an "NG" effort, since this monumental effort just to support a PowerMac G5, Sam460 and Amigaone X5000 would not really be worth the effort IMHO. Preparations of the entire code base for 64-bit could perhaps have taken place or being a work in progress, even though compiled as/for 32-bit ATM?


Quote:
Any official decision about ARM or AMD64?


Yes, it is AMD64 (again, not necessarily meaning CPU's coming from AMD, but the rather 64-bit "x86" standard (a.k.a. "x64", "x86-64", etc)). At least one desktop, and at least one laptop supported at the time of release, and as you know the important thing about that in today's highly integrated designs is really the chipset family.

Quote:
I can only remember geit saying that it is years away. A little vague, don´t you think?



Indeed no ETA. IIRC there has only been one occasion of the MorphOS Team giving an ETA in advance. That time they released it just hours (minutes?) from breaking it. Giving ETA's are not their style. Neither roadmaps. In fact, what we know about the upcoming x64 release may not be much, but still quite much in comparison to what they usually communicate in advance.

Anyway, on every occasion this subject comes up, you always comment the same things, completely ignoring the few things we do know.

So bye for now, until the next time, when we'll go through this once again...

sorry to spoil your dreams, regardless how sane they are, you will even be less able to lead the fraction of whatever be left of amiga scene attracted to morphos to a new architecture, whatever it might be, than the fraction attracted to another architecture that have grown old while talking, like ppc. if there even# is a particular platform amiga is bound to, its 68k. thats a fact, not a wish. im with aros, rather than anything else ng, so i must have observed the choices and for a reason, i guess.

Last edited by wawa on 10-Nov-2016 at 05:30 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 10-Nov-2016 18:49:25
#898 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 894
From: Unknown

@wawa

WOW!

Where did all that come from?!

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lionstorm 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 20:51:35
#899 ]
Super Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 1554
From: the french side

@Trevor : I hope you are safe (and Epsilon too), after having seen the news and the earthquake that hit NZ !

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 14-Nov-2016 21:46:44
#900 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4361
From: UK

@lionstorm

I pray that he's ok too! It looks like a big one with far reaching effects! Reported as a 7.8-magnitude earthquake that killed two people!



BBC: New Zealand Earthquake, Landslides and Wrecked Infrastructure

Last edited by BigD on 14-Nov-2016 at 09:47 PM.

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