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PosterThread
zzd10h 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 13:48:29
#921 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 21-May-2012
Posts: 1069
From: France

@kamelit0

"256MB Is not much"
Even in real NG, GFX memory is limited to 256MB.

@Trevor
"I had some issues with the ZTools package but I was able to install the excellent SysMon utility."

Thank you for the kind word about SysMon but could you explain me what was wrong with zTools installation please ? (no problem under my WinUAE setup).
Thanks

Last edited by zzd10h on 22-Jan-2017 at 01:50 PM.

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kas1e 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 14:19:17
#922 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3282
From: Russia

@kamelit0
Quote:

256MB Is not much, as for PC being faster I understand that the need for real HW especially low end is questionable. If a bounty is made toward HW support for graphics under WinUAE then low end may be dead in the water.
Kamelito


And probably that reasons of that phrase, like "emulation is emulation, but real hw is better!". But yes, real hardware like x1000/x5000 currently anyway better than winuae :)

As for memory, as zzd10h point out 256 of graphcs memory is what we have everywhere (even in x5000 with super new radeonhd) , but in terms of emulation that all probably not that matter , even 64mb will be enough. Currently there is no 3d support in os4 under winuae (dunno if there some minigl.library which works in software, i fear not), so you can't run massic 3d games and co, and even 64mb will suits well for many apps opened at one time.


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thellier 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 14:54:37
#923 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2009
Posts: 244
From: Paris

@kas1e

You mean minigl + wazp3d ;-p

Alain

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Anonymous 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 14:57:05
# ]



@kas1e

What are the technical reasons for having only 256MB VRAM and 2GB RAM minus all various I/O taking the rest?
Why not 4GB minus various I/O address space, and all the VRAM your GFX card can provide?
Is this a legacy limitation? I suppose that the OS should be fixed first then the driver.
I'd love to hear the technicals details behind this.
Kamelito

Last edited by kamelit0 on 22-Jan-2017 at 02:58 PM.
Last edited by kamelit0 on 22-Jan-2017 at 02:57 PM.

 
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Kronos 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 15:14:26
#925 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2141
From: Unknown

@kamelit0

DOS uses negative returnvalues as error codes and positive as pointers, making those pointers 31bit short -> 2GB or you'll run into serious compability issues.

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thellier 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 17:11:17
#926 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2009
Posts: 244
From: Paris

@kas1e

BTW it seems that update1 got some basic compositing support as when I forgot to activate PatchCompositeTags then MACE still display some stuff

Anyway only PatchCompositeTags allow to really run MACE as it implements "triangles" mode too
I tried MACE at 1280x1024 and it play 6 fps (slow but so coool) but at 640x480 it reach 17 fps so playable
I will try to improve speed a few in next release

But until Toni Wilen will add "native" support to WinUAE-ppc nothing really faster can be done

Alain

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Anonymous 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 19:07:43
# ]



@Kronos

I saw that RAM was 31bit, VRAM 18 but didn't understand why.
I thought that DOS was rewriten entirely why not remove that limitation?
Any idea about VRAM being 256MB only?
Kamelito

Last edited by kamelit0 on 22-Jan-2017 at 07:08 PM.

 
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pavlor 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 19:12:38
#928 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8900
From: Unknown

@kamelit0

Quote:
I thought that DOS was rewriten entirely why not remove that limitation?


Too hard task if you want to maintain compatibility with current software.

Quote:
Any idea about VRAM being 256MB only?


Legacy of Picasso96. Hans wrote Warp3D will use all available GFX RAM one day.

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Kronos 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 19:16:51
#929 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2141
From: Unknown

@kamelit0

The limitation isn't really in DOS, it's in the API. Changing the API might be trivial but would require all apps accessing DOS to be rewritten/changed/recompiled.

Makes no sense unless one changes all shortcomings of the Amiga API and have a clean OS (that might never see any SW written for it.....)

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Anonymous 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 20:43:25
# ]



@Kronos

AmigaOS 4 introduced Interfaces, I guess it has been put in place for things like that. They could maintain a legacy API and use the new one for new apps no?
Kamelito

 
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Kronos 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 22-Jan-2017 21:28:04
#931 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2141
From: Unknown

@kamelit0

Sure, but than the OS would need to keep track on which apps use legacy vs. new APIs (so it could direct "new" apps memory request >2GB). Sounds easy, just until some "new" app passes a pointer to a buffer to an device driver/handler that still relies on legacy APIs.


If you have sorted that one out, next one will want to go beyond 4GB (64Bit pointers) use proper SMP (all nice race conditions will occur) or even real MP (forget 90% of current APIs).

Or one could just create a new clean OS and keep old SW "boxed" away (just like MacOS9 stuff in early OSX).

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Spectre660 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 3-Apr-2017 22:45:39
#932 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 4-Jun-2005
Posts: 3714
From: Unknown



Quantum Leap

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 3-Apr-2017 23:40:56
#933 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4689
From: UK

@Spectre660

Ok, so there's availibility of the X5000 but it's the motherboard only (plus OS + Enhancer CD) but no option for a case or complete system yet! Not sure what to make of this as I'd heard the cases used were in short supply in the USA. Would be nice to have an engraved door like the X1000 if AmigaKit can supply them.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 3-Apr-2017 23:42:12
#934 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4689
From: UK

@Thread

Oh yeah and without the case, PSU, mouse, keyboard, etc it's £1,380.00 including VAT.

I guess £1,500 all in for a complete system is too good to hope for?

Last edited by BigD on 03-Apr-2017 at 11:44 PM.
Last edited by BigD on 03-Apr-2017 at 11:42 PM.

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OlafS25 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 8:40:08
#935 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5401
From: Unknown

@BigD

you want to buy it?

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 9:11:51
#936 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 4689
From: UK

@OlafS25

Are you offering complete systems with shipping to the UK?

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Rob 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 11:48:32
#937 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5746
From: S.Wales

@BigD

The advert from a while back says prices starting from £1699 so I don't know why you're talking about £1500 for a complete system. I think you could probably sort out the rest of the parts for £120 or less if you're prepared to look carefully and salvage hardware from few years old PC.

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outrun1978 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 13:04:56
#938 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2015
Posts: 501
From: Unknown

Glad to see Amigakit finally putting the board up for sale, although I am holding out for the X5000 as a system to be displayed on Amigakit's website and will definately buy when it is adverised.

I think its better to have brand new hardware and components with a fresh set up rather than recycle the Warp 3D/Nova compatible card and SSD drive from my Amigaone500 machine. Equally taking these items in particular out of my Amigaone500 machine and replacing those with the Radeon 5450 and 1 TB hard drive which came with the machine may impact on its re-sale value.

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Amiga1200 ACA1231/42 128MB and OS 3.9 Boing Bag update 2

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TRIPOS 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 13:53:15
#939 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 910
From: Unknown

@Rob

Quote:
Quote:

BigD wrote:
@Spectre660

Ok, so there's availibility of the X5000 but it's the motherboard only ... ...

I guess £ ... ...




@BigD

The advert from a while back says prices starting from £ ... ...


...and the Amigakit webstore says [dramatic drumroll] NOTHING about Amigaone X5000! Not even when I search the site (only get two items of backplate and front panel)! No price, no info, no nothing!

It's funny you should have to refer to "the advert from a while back" (is it one year back? Two?) for for essential information like price for a product that you label as "available".

IMHO "available" is a term used very liberally in context of Amigaone X5000...

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SHADES 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 4-Apr-2017 14:11:24
#940 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 633
From: Melbourne

@Kronos

what about a similar method to Hi Mem in MS DOS that got around the 640k barrier.
Programs that require compatibility ignore the extended memory, newer programs know where to look.

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