@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @NutsAboutAmiga Quote: think Dandy means whit out UAE, AmigaOS is ported to PowerPC, any thing that uses native libraries and system is regarded as native, same whit MacOS9/PowerPC running 68k applications. AmigaOS4.x on the other only runs on PowerPC chips, runs native, does not depend on Linux, has native libraries and drivers and devices, runs 68k application native thanks to recompilation whit JIT. That's not running a old Amiga OS/WB or Amiga 68K (OCS/ECS/AGA) games natively then.

Not?
Then it might be a semantic problem. I always thought if a machine/OS combo allows me to run old apps without having to install an emulator (the emu is already installed - e.g. JIT), then this is natively.
At least I can see no difference compared to running the same app on a real, classic Amiga.
You double-click the icon and the application starts - that's the same you would do on any classic Amiga...

Quote:

damocles wrote: Yes, I know Amiga OS4 runs only on PPC but Dandy was demanding old apps/games run natively. That is something a modern system (such as the A1X1K) can not do

That depends on how you define "native". See my definition above...

Quote:

damocles wrote: and have to depend on emulation or translation which is clearly not running a old (OCS/ECS/AGA) game natively. Best comparison I can think of is using a portable translation device to talk to someone speaking Hindi with me speaking English, that sure isn't native communication in Hindi on my part.

But if the emulation already is inconspiciously integrated into the OS you will notice no difference to running the app natively (according to your definition) on a classic Amiga. And If the re is no noticable difference - then why splitting hairs if it is native or not...

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Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

Quote:

I always thought if a machine/OS combo allows me to run old apps without having to install an emulator (the emu is already installed - e.g. JIT), then this is natively. At least I can see no difference compared to running the same app on a real, classic Amiga.

You must mean editing Workbench mimetypes so it launches UAE for #?.adf files?

Applications running in UAE are isolated from the system and you cant share clipboard or files easily between the host and emulated environment. But I think it might be possible mount your system partition in UAE as a share.

Games of course dont need system and you could run degrader in UAE or configure various UAE setups for different games.

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

The UAE setup is a tiny bit cooler then just that:

I believe RunInUAE has a way it can detect 68k programs when you click on the icons whit out changing the tooltype.

http://cshandley.co.uk/runinuae/

Yes native directory’s can be mounted in UAE as volumes.

I don't use it, more then happy whit AmigaOS4.1 support for 68k programs, UAE has never really interested me.

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@

Edited as Link
Not for prime time yet

Last edited by Spectre660 on 05-Jul-2012 at 07:49 PM.

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@amigakit

Re Graphics cards option for the new Batch of X1000's :

Not sure the that the Radeon HD5450 is going to give much punch to the X1000.
The 5450 HD gives about a third of the 3D performance of a Radeon HD4650 under Windows.
The HD 6570 might be a better option for the default configuration.
Hope you have tested or can test with the new Radeon HD driver before firming up the configuration options .

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

We don't have any games, that will really max any of the HD cards, when we have the new 3d graphics drivers.

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@_ThEcRoW

Quote:

_ThEcRoW wrote: @Dandy "1) Hyperion neither does nor wants to sell "machines" - they develop and sell software only," What?, are you serious?. ...

Of course.
Or can you point me to a piece of hardware that has been sold, is being sold or will be sold by Hyperion?
All I can buy from Hyperion so far is software...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @Dandy Quote: I always thought if a machine/OS combo allows me to run old apps without having to install an emulator (the emu is already installed - e.g. JIT), then this is natively. At least I can see no difference compared to running the same app on a real, classic Amiga. You must mean editing Workbench mimetypes so it launches UAE for #?.adf files?

No - I was referring to running old 68k apps on A1 X1k and OS 4.x...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@_ThEcRoW

"locked-down"
I can not see how HW would be loced in any way?

And moana would not be the answer, it would mean a lot of extra work.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Dandy

Ok, I thought you were referring to this:

Quote:

Those who want an Amiga want to run their old Amiga OS/software/Games natively on it - and this is something CUSAs super-duper so-called Amigas simply can not accomplish.

_________________
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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Quote:

itix wrote: @Dandy Ok, I thought you were referring to this: Quote: Those who want an Amiga want to run their old Amiga OS/software/Games natively on it - and this is something CUSAs super-duper so-called Amigas simply can not accomplish.

Yes, you're right - I was also referring to this.

I meant it that way, that you can't run old Amiga OS/software/Games natively on CUSAs super-duper so-called Amigas.

But you can run old Amiga OS/software/Games natively (according to my definition) on an A1 X1k.

At least someone who already has an A1 X1k wrote somewhere that starting old 68k apps on A1 X1k/OS 4.x would be as easy as on an classic Amiga.

Wait - or was it just about starting old 68k apps in OS 4.x - no matter on which hw?
I'm not sure a.t.m. ...

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

You can start old and new 68k apps on OS4 (no matter what hardware is used) but all 68k apps will not work. That is because hardware different i.e. requires Amiga custom chips, or the operating system is incompatible, or the software is incompatible.

(AROS and MorphOS of course have same restrictions supporting +/- n applications more or less and it is still more than Commodore USA "Amigas" offer.)

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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

RunInUAE is included in latest OS4.1 update 4 as option you can install, so I can understand Dandy confusion about the issue.

I think most definition of native is if its part of or integrated into, and does not require emulation.

UAE is a emulator, and RunInUAE is tool that is included to help users start programs inside UAE.

Petunia JIT is a JIT compiler integrated into AmigaOS4.1, it translates machine code, just in time for machine code to be executed, JIT compilers are often part of emulators or, program languages that are meant to run on many operating systems or types of CPU's, flash, java. Petunia is what makes programs run native in AmigaOS4.1, whit out the chipset emulation.

AmigaOS4.1 runs on classic hardware so, it can run AGA/OCS/ECS games and demos on classic hardware, on hardware that does not have AGA/OCS/ECS etc, you need UAE.

I hope this makes it clear what the boundaries are for 68k programs running inside of AmigaOS4, and when you need a UAE on top of the OS.

And as for users like Dandy it might be bit too confusing, because he does not see the difference, and way should he care about details like this, if he is happy whit it.

And to make it more confusing we have the XENA chip that might be used to simulate chipsets, like Paula.

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@itix

AROS does not yet provide a way for 68k programs to run inside of AROS x86, whit out UAE, But there is a project to get 68k programs to runs as part of AROS x86, but its lot of more work because of big endien, little endien stuff, they only have the workbench 1.3 clock running this way so far.

And they have Janus-UAE that tries hide UAE more then whats is done in MorphOS and AmigaOS4.1, by trying to integrate UAE windows and screens, into AROS.

On classic hardware 68k programs OCS/ECS/AGA can run whit in AROS 68k, In the same way they can on AmigaOS4.1 and MorphOS.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Aros 68k can run seperately in emulation (f.e. WinUAE, E-UAE) and on classic hardware. At the moment the different distribution-maintainers integrate 68k using JanusUAE with Aros 68k as base. As far as I know there will never be the same grade of integration of 68k in Aros like it is done with solutions in MOS and AOS.

So Aros is using UAE + Aros 68k + Kickstart Replacement for emulation. MOS and AOS offer the better integration, Aros is more compatible regarding "hardware-hitting" software. So from my view there is no clear winner/better solution. My personal view is that the tight integration between PPC/68k limit future improvements but it is a matter of taste.

Every of the "big three" will offer decent 68k emulation in future without buying additional licenses/software.

@BigD

Quote:

BigD wrote: @Spirantho Not interested in sending an email to register interest. Either A-Eon takes a punt and builds enough boards to satisfy demand in order to keep them in stock at Amigakit for more than 2 days or we call this what it is; an elitist rich boys club!! This hardware spec is already 2 years after announcement and about 6 months after the 'first contact' soft-launch! When is the final proper release date, or is this party never going to get started? Does this new batch support on-board ethernet/sound chips/graphics? Are we any closer to OS4.2 and dual-core support?

_________________
Ciao

Dandy
__________________________________________
If someone enjoys marching to military music, then I already despise him.
He got his brain accidently - the bone marrow in his back would have been sufficient for him!
(Albert Einstein)

@Dandy

Quote:

Not? Then it might be a semantic problem. I always thought if a machine/OS combo allows me to run old apps without having to install an emulator (the emu is already installed - e.g. JIT), then this is natively.

But it's running on a emu, the JIT. If it can run AOS 68K natively, how about a video of you DBANing the AmigaOne drive and install WB 3.9 floppies and then rebooting into WB 3.9, then I'll concede you are indeed running AOS 68K natively.

Last edited by damocles on 09-Jul-2012 at 10:18 AM.

_________________
Dammy

@damocles

You would be surprised...

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X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

So, is there any new owner of X1000?

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F1 Srbija

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

AROS does not yet provide a way for 68k programs to run inside of AROS x86, whit out UAE, But there is a project to get 68k programs to runs as part of AROS x86, but its lot of more work because of big endien, little endien stuff, they only have the workbench 1.3 clock running this way so far.

Regarding aros68k..
Lol. Why are you spreading Fud , or dont you really know Nothing about the Subject?
Aros 68k Runs quite Fine on winuae and native Hardware. Id say it Runs a Lot if Not the majority of the 68 k Software already, it Runs mui Applications Fine. It Runs scalos and Dopus magellan. It Runs Storm Mesa and warp3d Apps with some caveats. It Runs scout both aros and genuine 68k aminet versions. It Runs Majority of available sdl Ports including netsurf Browser. Now owb is in the Works and Gallium (Softpipe) Looks like just Around the corner. In cooperation with netbsd pci Support for Amiga pci bridges is being added. My a4k Mediator recognizes already most pci cards i throw at it... And, and, and..

So its a Lot more than just your clock.
Now, whadda you say?

(damn iPad German spellcheck gets in the Way, Sorry)