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BrianK 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 17-Dec-2012 15:06:04
#81 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Moxee

You are welcome.



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jkirk 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 17-Dec-2012 17:57:12
#82 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2005
Posts: 3348
From: Georgia (usa)

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote:
@Lou

Realistically, people would then be turning to Linux. It hasn't any of the hardware restrictions Amiga has and is very affordable.



Or they might try Classic Shell

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 18-Dec-2012 22:09:11
#83 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1916
From: Chicago, IL

Ballmer just voted #2 worse CEO today by CNBC.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100320782

From link

"Steve Ballmer of Microsoft. (Truth be told: For a few moments, as I argued with myself during the writing process, he took the No. 1 spot.) This is more of a cumulative call, culminating with Windows 8, which hasn't exactly knocked the cover off the ball (or moved the needle in PC sales, as Ballmer had predicted it would do.)

Its miserly low-single-digit gain lagged the S&P 500's roughly 12.5 percent gain this year. Worse, since Ballmer took control on January 1, 2000, Microsoft's shares have sunk by more than 40 percent. (Read More: Top Turnaround CEOs of 2012: Battley)

And let's not forget this year's write-off of almost the entire $6.3 billion spent on buying online advertising company aQuantive in 2007 — an egregious misstep that would get plenty of CEOs fired.

Yet, for all of the talk of Windows, it's only 25 percent of the business. Under Ballmer Xbox has excelled and the less-sexy but stickier "server and tools" segment for businesses grew to help buffer any slowdown in Windows.

But that's the point: Microsoft has largely become the equivalent of a lumbering, cash-rich, unregulated utility. Yet, with all of its cash — $53.6 billion (including debt) at last count — Microsoft pays a dividend that currently yields a paltry 3.4 percent. There hasn't even been a special dividend.

Maybe he's not the worst, but Ballmer deserves to be called out and including him on this list is one way to do it."

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Moxee 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 18-Dec-2012 23:17:32
#84 ]
Team Member
Joined: 20-Aug-2003
Posts: 6291
From: County Yakima, WA State, USA

@DiscreetFX

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Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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bison 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 1:45:23
#85 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1715
From: N-Space

@DiscreetFX

Video evidence that Steve's got a few bent pins:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 8:48:10
#86 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1916
From: Chicago, IL

After its launch splash, Windows 8 faces business skepticism

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2021330/after-its-launch-splash-windows-8-faces-business-skepticism.html

Here are some real gems from the article.

"Microsoft Certified Partner that makes an Internet filter appliance for businesses called NetSpective, calls the new Windows 8 touch-optimized interface "annoying" and "unintuitive." He refers to the new interface's Live Tiles icons as "big square blotches on the screen" that "don't make efficient use of the desktop space."

"At TeleMate.Net, he put Windows 8 on a couple of tech-savvy employees' PCs and they quickly requested to be switched back to Windows 7. "They said to put Windows 7 back in there because they had to use their computers."

"And while Windows 8 also has an alternate interface that more closely resembles the traditional Windows 7 desktop, Newton is also unimpressed by it. He dislikes that it doesn't have the Start button, and that it doesn't offer Windows 7's familiar menu system."

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 9:22:58
#87 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2248
From: Minnesota, USA

@thread

The only good thing about Win8 is that it allows unmodified DLL files to be held in memory and read by multiple tasks/cores. This makes the memory handling of Windows to be something like that of an Amiga. It's a crying shame they had to bundle the new GUI with it though.

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 9:37:20
#88 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 958
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@DiscreetFX

Of course you're reporting only articles that support your "failure" theory, while there're lots of others stating the contrary (even on the very sites you cite). So, basically, you're trying to say that gaining 1.09% of desktop market share in three months is a failure compared to, say, Linux which has 1.25% in years?

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Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

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KimmoK 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 9:49:21
#89 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5191
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Nibunnoichi

"that gaining 1.09% of desktop market share in three months"

Microsoft has a monopoly.
So, if they do not go beyond 50% soon, they have failed, IMO.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 10:37:53
#90 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 958
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@KimmoK

Quote:
Microsoft has a monopoly.

I like the fact that this whole thread makes me feel like i'm still stuck in the nineties, i feel younger!

Quote:
So, if they do not go beyond 50% soon, they have failed, IMO.

Define "soon". It can't be three months when they still have W7 available for sale and XP under active maintenance, these are both factors that don't put the urge to upgrade on people (while many here seem to think that it's just because of Metro).

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Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

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Rose 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 10:49:29
#91 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 728
From: Unknown

@Nibunnoichi

Quote:

@KimmoK
Quote:
So, if they do not go beyond 50% soon, they have failed, IMO.


Define "soon". It can't be three months when they still have W7 available for sale and XP under active maintenance, these are both factors that don't put the urge to upgrade on people (while many here seem to think that it's just because of Metro).



Seems like by KimmoK's definition Win7 is failure...

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Nimrod 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 11:01:15
#92 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1210
From: Untied Kingdom

@Nibunnoichi

Quote:
Define "soon". It can't be three months when they still have W7 available for sale and XP under active maintenance, these are both factors that don't put the urge to upgrade on people (while many here seem to think that it's just because of Metro).
Also don't forget that there was something that escaped (I won't dignify it with the term released) after XP but before 7.

Vista was hardly a runaway success either, was it. Can it be a sign of things to come?

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Franko 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 12:52:20
#93 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

@Nibunnoichi

Quote:

Nibunnoichi wrote:
@DiscreetFX

Of course you're reporting only articles that support your "failure" theory, while there're lots of others stating the contrary (even on the very sites you cite). So, basically, you're trying to say that gaining 1.09% of desktop market share in three months is a failure compared to, say, Linux which has 1.25% in years?



Just curious here... You're obviously a Windows/ Microsoft user/ supporter judging from various comments you made in the past, just wanted to ask if you are (with me never having been a fan of any OS Microsoft have ever made)...

Did you choose to use a Microsoft OS yourself or did you sort of feel you were forced to us it through maybe using it at work or in education...

I only ask because most people i know personally and have ever asked that question usually tell me they had to use it simply because it is what they use at their Workplace or it was the main platform in use in their college/ uni days...

Very few people have ever said to me that they chose the Windows platform because they actually liked it or thought it was the best OS available...

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The_Editor 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 13:14:53
#94 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7629
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

@Nibunnoichi

Quote:

Of course you're reporting only articles that support your "failure" theory, while there're lots of others stating the contrary (even on the very sites you cite). So, basically, you're trying to say that gaining 1.09% of desktop market share in three months is a failure compared to, say, Linux which has 1.25% in years?


Fail !


Quote:

The report also revealed that Microsoft has gone from 97 per cent share of computer market to 20 per cent


http://news.efytimes.com/e1/96641/Heres-The-Success-Story-Of-Linux-In

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 13:36:03
#95 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 958
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@Franko

So, trying to give an objective look at things means that i'm a defender of something other than common sense?

_________________
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Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

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Nibunnoichi 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 13:37:21
#96 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Nov-2004
Posts: 958
From: Roma + Lecco, Italia

@The_Editor

Quote:

The_Editor wrote:
Fail !
The report also revealed that Microsoft has gone from 97 per cent share of computer market to 20 per cent
http://news.efytimes.com/e1/96641/Heres-The-Success-Story-Of-Linux-In

I thought we were talking about desktops here... refer to Rose's link above.

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Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 13:51:25
#97 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1916
From: Chicago, IL

Believe it or not the most damning feature of Windows 8 is not the AOL 1996 looking interface.

From Forbes

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/12/16/has-windows-8-failed-as-the-pc-market-hasnt-boomed/

That Windows 8 is less bloated than Windows 7 is a good hypothesis, but I am afraid, that is not the reason. The reason Windows 8 is failing, and will continue to fail, can be summarized in one simple fact:

Windows 8 is a poorly-executed attempt at customer lock-in that is alienating all but the most naive/tolerant of Windows users.

If you examine the technical details of Windows 8, you will find that, unlike previous versions of Windows, it is rife with gimmicks that are meant to lock-in the customer. I believe, in the business world, you call this “customer stickiness”. Microsoft laid it on quite thick with Windows 8, and the strategy is backfiring immensely.

There is something called UEFI secure boot, which is a very beneficial thing in principle, as it creates a chain-of-guarantee from the very moment that the power switch is hit, to the moment that you see pretty colors on the screen, that no viruses have “got in and under” the OS while you were not looking. Microsoft insisted that, if OEM’s want to claim that their PC’s are “Windows 8 Ready”, it must support EUFI secure boot. Fine. But as it turns out, Microsoft went rogue with this feature and insisted that OEM’s implement it in a way that makes it problematic to use the brand new PC to boot Linux. Not very smart. Now you have hoards of techno-polyglots who use both Windows and Linux, very angry at Windows (Microsoft). And they tend to be more vocal in their discontent than average users.

Microsoft has the intent of generating revenue via cloud services, but rather than let the market dynamics play out, they are trying to force it. The idea is to get users used to the notion that Microsoft will “house” your data for you. Fine. Some consumers and business might like this. But, Microsoft was so worried that not enough users will buy in, they architecturally changed many of their applications to rely on the cloud *only*, so that customers have now no choice but to use cloud services. Not smart. Some people do not like the idea of their wife’s and babies pictures being forced onto Microsofts cloud.

Throughout the use of Windows 8, Microsoft presents “optional” agreements that are really not optional, if you want to play. Some of their “optional” agreements give them the right to analyze your personal data in while it sits in their cloud. Many users do not like these “optional”, non-optional agreements.

Microsoft is running a “de-branding” campaign to eliminate competition by calling your email applications simply “Mail”. Again, they are trying to destroy the decades-old perception that competition exists in the software space, and that there are different brands of mail applications, and the customer, not the OS, gets to decide which one to use, and how it will be presented to the user.

Microsoft tries to get you to sign up to a cloud account whether you want one or not. After the customer declines a few times, Microsoft repeatedly asks (harasses) the customer over and over until the customer acquiesces. Quite annoying from a user-perspective.

As we all know, Microsoft created a new UI, which they called “Metro”, that has tiles that look like they were designed by Fisher-Price. The name being used lately, I think, is “Modern UI.” Afraid that not enough customers will by into the “use-our-cloud” mandate, and simply revert to old branded applications found with “regular”, non “Modern UI” applications, Microsoft eliminated the START menu. “There, that’s better. Now our hoards of customers will be forced to use our tiles, and therefore, our cloud based services.” Not smart, and not working. Many of the users are older than 5, and they hate the new, restrictive, gimmicky interface. If you have a moment, Google “hate Windows 8″ to see the rage for yourself.

Thinking that users will now be forced into their cloud services, Microsoft lined up some cloud offerings, including video service and music. But then they thought, “Oh. What about those DVD things that people put into the DVD drives that come with every new computer….Hmmm…maybe if we eliminate the ability to play DVD’s on the computer, they will become desperate, and stampede their way to our music/video offerings. Yea, let’s do that!!!” Windows 8 will not play DVD’s, something every Windows user has come to expect as a not-even-up-for-discussion feature.

But Microsoft still had a problem: third-party software developers. Even with the formerly-known-as-Metro UI (Modern UI), the Windows 7 desktop is still lurking beneath the Surface (pun intended). Microsoft puts on thinking hat again: “Hmm…we have to force developers to stop writing desktop applications, as they only delay the adoption of Metro. How do we do that?…I got it!!! Let’s kill the API that they use to write desktop applications, and force them to write Metro applications!!! But…we cannot do it all at once. They will simply rebel. Let’s do it gradually, and be sneaky about it.” And so, this is what Microsoft is doing…gradually killing the API that software developers use to write applications that underly a $100 billion industry. [YES, THAT API.]

But, Microsoft still needs more ways to “monetize Windows 8. So they said, “What about Windows Phone 8? Is there something that we can do regarding Windows Phone 8 to induce upgrades to Windows 8? Yes!!! We can make it so that the software development tools that are now used to make Windows Phone 7 applications will be unable to make Windows Phone 8 applications, unless the tools run on Windows 8!!! Brilliant!” And so they did. Software developers around the world are all scratching their heads in unison, asking themselves the same question: “Why would Microsoft artificially restrict the development of Windows Phone 8 applications to machines running Windows 8? It takes less than an hours to make the tool run on Windows 7 too….”

But wait! Let’s not forget Google! Tech CEO’s around the world go to bed every night envying the meteoric rise of the likes of Google and Facebook. They want some of that action. So does Microsoft. So Microsoft decided to put advertisements in many of their Windows 8 “apps”, tailored to the user, of course, after snooping the user’s data. Nice. Now, when am about to give my PowerPoint presentation, I can expect a Viagra ad to pop up in my free weather widget that came with the computer whether I wanted it or not.

Microsoft is not the first company to pull a stunt like Windows 8. It won’t be the last. The problem is that the gimmicks are so egregious and so readily apparent that even novices are looking at it and saying, “Uh…no…nah..unh..unh…this ain’t happening.”

And they are sticking to Windows 7.

If you are a business user thinking of upgrading to Windows 8, I would be very very careful. Find yourself a hard-core engineer, either in your company, or maybe a consultant, and ask not what is good about Windows 8, but what is bad. The last thing you want to do is find yourself locked into something that is very different from what you were expecting, based on previous versions of Windows.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 19-Dec-2012 at 01:52 PM.

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In_Correct 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 16:59:34
#98 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Apr-2010
Posts: 153
From: DFW, TX, USA

@DiscreetFX

Quote:
There is something called UEFI secure boot, which is a very beneficial thing in principle, as it creates a chain-of-guarantee from the very moment that the power switch is hit, to the moment that you see pretty colors on the screen, that no viruses have “got in and under” the OS while you were not looking. Microsoft insisted that, if OEM’s want to claim that their PC’s are “Windows 8 Ready”, it must support EUFI secure boot. Fine. But as it turns out, Microsoft went rogue with this feature and insisted that OEM’s implement it in a way that makes it problematic to use the brand new PC to boot Linux. Not very smart. Now you have hoards of techno-polyglots who use both Windows and Linux, very angry at Windows (Microsoft). And they tend to be more vocal in their discontent than average users.


Which hardware platform is Microsoft trying to conquer by manipulating the UEFI Secure Boot feature? ARM too? A solution to combat this to our advantage, is that Genesi Efika should support Linux, and also any (or all) Amiga OS. and that the Amiga OSs gets ported to Genesi Efika. People fleeing from Microsoft's tyrany (both Linux users, and people in general wanting something Fun to use) will now purchase Genesi products, install Linux &/or an Amiga OS.

Last edited by In_Correct on 19-Dec-2012 at 05:01 PM.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 17:52:55
#99 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1770
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX
Wow Win8 doesn't play DVD!!... good move! They save money which they would need to pay the mpeg consortium.

Every shity burner or OEM flooded PC comes with a DVDplayer ! If you buy a blue-ray player even a Blueray-player which plays DVD's.

Wait .. oh We collected data and can say : 90% of all user install VNC... you know what!? Ot plays DVD's.

No business man would pay for it! They do good.

I like the new UI. Wouldn't use it. But just because i have no Windows : )
I think it is nice for old people and for young people.. the later will be the nexgen users...

Even on AROS I use a Fullscreen Filer called DOPUS : )
Could be nicely integrated in New UI.
I can access instantly what I wan't... even if it is not on the screen.... just start typing...whait... was thi new Ui or Unity on linux ??? ..Whatever I like those "modern" tries.

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Overflow 
Re: Windows 8
Posted on 19-Dec-2012 18:05:54
#100 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1627
From: Norway

Customer "stickiness" seems like a valid point if what ive read about win8 is correct.

That said, Apple has been quite sucessful with their extreme version of this.

I personally loath it on my work ipad, but my collegues simply love it.
Maybe my c64/amiga heritage makes me appriciate the ability to do whatever I want with MY
hardware.
I do have Win XP and 7 (plus ....vista.... preinstalled on my laptop), but I do not plan on spending money on
Win8. Atm both xp and win 7 serves me well on the 2 stationary PCs, and I would think so for the forseeable future.
IF Windows becomes a hinderance in the new few years with lack of updates in an attempt to
"push" me to switch to Win8, I will probarly just stay with Linux only. Doubt that will happen in a long time tho.

As was mentioned by others, I think many WIn7 users are more than content with what they have atm, and their "resistance" to upgrade doesnt nessicarily mean Win8 is shit.

For me it just means I dont have the need to upgrade.

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