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persia 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 14:51:20
#141 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

Here's he tweet where Harry outs himself as CommodoreUSA

https://twitter.com/CommodoreUSA/status/334831321782300672
ow.ly/l4LmW

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 14:58:44
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@persia

Sorry, I don't understand how this is something new.

@hhawk posted as their PR director on Commodore USA's forum site from the beginning. Job description in the past was listed as:
"Marketing & Communications".

short version of his history

#6

Last edited by number6 on 25-May-2013 at 03:05 PM.

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vox 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 17:11:20
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@number6

At least someone tweets

An interesting remark from Dammy at Moo was that Barrys daughter (which was listed as C-USA stuff) decided NOT to continue business "because of people like vox" (resistance to its idea).

Nice excuse for falling business. Wonder would the decision be the same if it gained
some momentum in sales (which it didnt just because of heavy pricing, people have
proven to be smarter, even Internet fuzz about "Commodore is back" was big. Or "new first new Amiga after CD32" - ah, what a propaganda!)

Again, only thing that matters are:

a) Still existance of anti Amiga propaganda by CUSA fans
Amig4Be published eBook claiming Amiga has become cult and making CUSA version of story "literal"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMpc0oUDx4Y
http://issuu.com/amig4be/docs/amiga__da_informatica_a_religione

Glad its only in Italian. If anyone can make a summary of its interpretation of events after 2003 (how accurate) would be glad to see it. Is it a contribution to a Amiga history or propaganda?

b) what will happen to Commodore and Amiga brand NAMES after CUSA

Last edited by vox on 25-May-2013 at 05:22 PM.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 17:18:39
#144 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@vox

Quote:
An interesting remark from Dammy at Moo was that Barrys daughter (which was listed as C-USA stuff) decided NOT to continue business "because of people like vox" (resistance to its idea).


So...you believe that?
You don't think Barry's son, who was brought in to the business in the last year or Renee would have a say in the decision making?

Quote:
what will happen to Commodore and Amiga brand NAMES after CUSA


It is the mere fact that no one -does- know who owns what, that keeps everyone in "business". Truth would not serve anyone well here.

#6

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vox 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 17:28:13
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@number6

Quote:
So...you believe that? You don't think Barry's son, who was brought in to the business in the last year or Renee would have a say in the decision making?


No, as usually, I dont trust Dammys first hand excuses of being C-USA in house friend. I believe everyone has taken the last year record after Barrys death and realized the bussiness is only wasting money, not making one, so they decided to close down. Real proof of that is not only complete shoutdown of even forum and website, leaving only inactive Facebook and tweeter,
but the lawsuit with their own supplier, meaning they havent meet the contract obligations.

Its interesting to see Leo (as major tech player) just disappeared. That is all of real major players, ex-C-USA fans like WoolfToTheMoon, Terminillis etc. have just continued criticizing AmigaOS development. But at least we got peace of mind and no abuse of Amiga and Commodore.

Quote:
It is the mere fact that no one -does- know who owns what, that keeps everyone in "business". Truth would not serve anyone well here.


At least we knew Amiga Inc HAD right to use names as they granted it to Hyperion (AmigaOS, AmigaOne trademarks) at the end handing it out in court. It wasn interesting to see they had no Kickstart rights (otherwise COS would not use AROS KS files for emulation) or rights to Workbench name (infamous CUSA Workbench V adventure).

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 17:51:22
#146 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@vox

Quote:
That is all of real major players, ex-C-USA fans like WoolfToTheMoon, Terminillis etc. have just continued criticizing AmigaOS development.


Maybe you should have a serious read of this before issuing judgment:

Getting serious about Printing

#6

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pavlor 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 18:08:42
#147 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9120
From: Unknown

@vox

Quote:
Glad its only in Italian. If anyone can make a summary of its interpretation of events after 2003 (how accurate) would be glad to see it. Is it a contribution to a Amiga history or propaganda?


I think it is mix of his past blog posts and "suitable" informations from other Amiga forums (eg. Piru┤s benchmarks). I must admire his passion... so much hatred.

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vox 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 18:32:34
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@pavlor

Quote:
I think it is mix of his past blog posts and "suitable" informations from other Amiga forums (eg. Piru┤s benchmarks). I must admire his passion... so much hatred.


Off course, he (ab)used whatever he could dig to present current AmigaOS as not successor, being unworthy etc. If it would come from Atari guy or Windows lover I would understand, what I actually never could understood in CUSA flamming era is how people that DO KNOW Amiga history well, fall for it.

But as in civilization they quote Hitler "people are easier to accept big lie, then a small lie".

It is said to see such propaganda continue beyond CUSA days, and my favourite example was this diagram trying to show CUSA as final AMiga progression and continuation of Commodore
http://anticusa.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/commodore-world.jpg

Off course, here at least they admit existence of PPC machines and MorphOS

I have GoogleTranslated part of his past "Amiga as cult" article
http://anticusa.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/more-amig4be-propaganda-amigaos-as-dogmatic-cult/

Where he tries to pin abuse of Amiga name to Hyperion and retro exploit of name,
while in fact (even if we accept that this is partialy true for OS4) he support even bigger abuse
of just name recycle with CUSA. Its also interesting to read he claims "Commodore never had plans to make PPC machine". True, because PPC didnt exist in Commodore days.
But as we know, most of Amiga resurrection plans after Commodore demise were PPC based
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/ppchistory.html

Such "time travelling" is interesting in making biased document such as this.

Cod3r gave a nice contrib to my antiCUSA blog by explaining we would not have anything against CommodoreUSA branded PCs if there was no such propaganda tries
http://anticusa.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/cod3rs-contrib-commodore-usa-revisiting-history-or-rewriting-it/

Gladly, such exploit idea didnt succeeed not because it didnt have the right idea (to exploit C64 look and Amiga creative image) but simply because of greed and overpricing. And lack of talent and innovation.

With better relations with community (supporting and promoting AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS at least on websites and by mentioning), better pricing and permanent OS development by Mint team, it could be a big boom, our next PC if needed and maybe some union with Linux geeks. But that train has left ... Could be a win-win, but it was a lose-lose:CUSA is dead and people laughed at something that was promoted as Amiga return.

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vox 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 18:34:47
#149 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@number6

Quote:
Maybe you should have a serious read of this before issuing judgment: Getting serious about Printing


This means that Treminillis is working on AROS/MorphOS printing system?
Nice. But that does not negate overwhelming negativity and criticism you can ecounter by him, now visible as "this has been addressed" in his signature.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 18:45:36
#150 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@vox

Quote:
This means that Treminillis is working on AROS/MorphOS printing system?


He mentions OS4 too. If you look at the nicks of those posting on AW and in his thread on Amigans.net, you might get a better idea of what he's doing and what it might work with.

His sig is clearly about a line used in some excess by an AW moderator. I'm not sure why you think that applies to OS4 in particular.

#6


Last edited by number6 on 25-May-2013 at 06:47 PM.

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vox 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 18:56:06
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@number6

Quote:
He mentions OS4 too. If you look at the nicks of those posting on AW and in his thread on Amigans.net, you might get a better idea of what he's doing and what it might work with. His sig is clearly about a line used in some excess by an AW moderator. I'm not sure why you think that applies to OS4 in particular.


I do know he is an AROS developer. Therefore, he might not be a best example,
but there were people like x86 Amigan and WolfToMoon whose pure role was to promote
CUSA as superior "x86 Amiga" and "x86 as way to go - even without AROS". Today I am glad they just cannot "sing the same tune" beside rational idea of MorphOS/AmigaOS x86/ARM transition which might happen one day, but surely not if we dont support its development until then. Maybe its not that visible here, but at uncontrolled Moo, you can see poeple just waiting for something bad to discuss - even regular development problems and bugs, users having trouble etc.

I am glad people do change, and CUSA has fallen to divide Amiga community to their own plans (as it seems their original idea was) but I am really sure there is a reason why have I listed him as CUSA fan during CUSA war days.
However, I am willing to remove names of people that donét do that anymore, which would size list down to Dammy They just need to say they want to be removed, PM is enough.

I dont see Printing topic on Amigans.net recent discussions

Last edited by vox on 25-May-2013 at 06:59 PM.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 19:02:35
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@vox

Quote:
I dont see Printing topic on Amigans.net recent discussions


That's because he's still waiting on some test results, as he just posted here on AW. But here's the thread:

Re: USB (DOT4) Printers & OS4.1 **Testing in Progress**

#6

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terminills 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 19:58:26
#153 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

@vox

are you serious? you don't even remember why you put me on that list...

here's a hint it had nothing to do with my negatively towards Aos4,morphos or otherwise.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=704268&postcount=41

unlike you I don't forget.

as for my signature number6 is 100% correct. It had to do with a mod replacing 25% or more with that very line in a thread... Even he got the joke.

http://www.amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=35809&forum=33&start=160&viewmode=flat&order=0#703026

Last edited by terminills on 25-May-2013 at 08:07 PM.
Last edited by terminills on 25-May-2013 at 08:04 PM.

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vox 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 20:11:14
#154 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@terminills

Quote:
are you serious? you don't even remember why you put me on that list...


I am serious, and yes, beside your strange style of communication (inquiring me to be CUSA troll is kind of ... i dont know ... finding something suitable equally negative to pin on yourself), I havent`saved the exact link to why I did so, maybe it was a support at the times they presented themselves as AROS saviors (before they shunned it and then again promoted their Amiga line as AROS ready) or maybe it was lack of criticism towards what they do. I am not going to go over Amiga.org again, and its a bit harder once you dont have an account (permanently banned, having another account is prohibited and I don`t like to pretend to be someone else).

Quote:
unlike you I don't forget.


Great, good for you. I have no reasons not to believe you. So I will apologize for my unfair judgement of your character. It was "war" on few boards, with many post in relatively short time. And yes, deciding to easy off with ganja, will surely help my long term memory.

Shortly, its removed. And I highly value people that do something good for Amiga, like in this case you do.

Following AW.net users remain,

EXEC (not a real EXEC)
Wolf to The Moon (Croatian troll)
Big Aussie (Leo Nigro) (Aussie troll)
Linnar
Damocles (sounds like Spammy, unlike real Damocles)
x86 Amigist (no Amigist at all)

for good reasons I suppose, but I am willing to remove them too if they desire so. As I said to Leo "get a real job" - now he has to, and I suppose those people can no longer spam with CUSA news, so they can do only good. And give their share of aid, comments or good ideas.

Last edited by vox on 25-May-2013 at 08:14 PM.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 20:46:10
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@vox

Communication is difficult, especially with the language barrier. I don't mean just the words themselves...but also in how a wide audience of non-native english speakers might interpret those words.

For example: I can misread easily by intent what you're saying in your last post:

Quote:
maybe it was a support at the times they presented themselves as AROS saviors (before they shunned it
etc.

definition of "shunned": To avoid deliberately; keep away from.

This conveys that you believe CUSA intentionally tried to avoid AROS as an operating system of choice, either in full or in part. It conveys that CUSA had a choice.

This neither is, nor was, the issue. AROS as AmigaOS is in violation of the terms of the Amiga Inc. vs Hyperion VOF settlement agreement. As such there was no "choice" of what to do available to any of the 3 parties.
Considering CUSA was not active when this settlement agreement was drafted, you have a choice of only 2 companies to consider in regards to why AROS can not be presented as AmigaOS.

Assuming that lawyers understand all the implications of a settlement agreement until it has been tested with words and actions...is patently insane. Simply, they did NOT.

How people portrayed the reasons on web forums is moot. Therefore, all the arguments were merely for the sake of arguing alone and creating website traffic, NOT for coming to any agreement. An agreement was never possible.

#6

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vox 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 22:47:45
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@number6

Quote:
How people portrayed the reasons on web forums is moot. Therefore, all the arguments were merely for the sake of arguing alone and creating website traffic, NOT for coming to any agreement. An agreement was never possible.


On the word meaning: I ment it as kind of social shunning (rejecting existence and bashing publicly by fans and Barry in his interview)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunning

In fact they did it quite a while to MorphOS and OS4 too, just in the end puting a small print at COS download page that those exist, playing elitist, way forward, and "only Amiga" to exist. And while C64 is long dead, and everybody knew its retro case remake, with Amiga situation is way more difficult.

I agree much was done just to gain attention and website traffic, but not that there wasnét a proper way to do things before public ("agreement was never possible"). There can always be a new legal agreement, this way it looked like CUSA and Amiga Inc are trying to play off Hyperions past agreement.

Off course they had choice, to negotiate it with both AROS teams and Hyperion at first and to check the Amiga Inc Hyperion agreement that kind of almost clearly stated it. Dummy even claimed they have contacted OS4 and MOS teams first (for x86 port since they never considered PPC?) but this was never confirmed by any of the teams, including CUSA. It was the way they did things surely. In the end, there can always be a new legal contract if all parties agree.

Its strange that Amiga Inc licensee (CUSA), haven checked the legal limits of past Amiga Inc court case, which explicitly stated that but kind of desired to test it. Nowadays, when I see "non attacking clause" I do understand while Hyperion NEVER comments Amiga Inc moves, but this for sure was way too much not to react. Especially as it came about time of X1000 launch, promising almost model of same name (Commodore Amiga 1000x) with Workbench V at that time. And in CUSA modern ways, its was easy to create new models after C64x: you pick someone elses case, engrave Amiga XXX on it, assemble PC. We could fastly have Amiga 500x, Amiga 2000x, Amiga 3000x ... as CUSA even promised alongside idea to have, if I do remember correctly, up to $20 000 Amiga workstation (with COS? no pro software?). I am glad that we havent been flooded by all those fake Amigas.

So In my and legal eyes, its CUSA that has tried to brake the agreement, not other way around, which is simply proof of not serious business.

OK, they (CUSA) explained that they were prevented by (CUSA fans would say "evil") Hyperion and we do know Hyperion initially said they will take legal action. But then again, by shunning AROS I meant bashing, and by that I mean un-necessary criticism by Barry - initially his reaction was that it was useless (OK maybe as only OS, but they with Phoenix promised triple boot feature and started using Ubuntu), failure to at least support HD audio driver that would enable people to use AROS on C64x, and in the end using AROS Kickstart replacement without any contact with authors or donation given.

Even Barry and Leo explained after Hyperion ban they have no need for HD Audio AROS driver. Even if AROS is not bundled with every machine, that one would enable CUSA C64x users to use AROS. So, that is how much they cared for it (and their users) anyway.

And use of AROS KS was done, after they have first promised to bundle $20 worth AMiga Forever as part of COS, but never purchased the license I do have COS x64 installed on PC but I do believe in the end Amiga Classic emulation does not work out of box.

I havent saved the posts where either Barry, Leo or CUSA fans were at some point really bashing (shunning) AROS as unusable anyway (in terms anyway its nothing, useless ...), but I am certain it did happen, very contrasting from initial praises and promises of support. People at forums tried to explain idea to use it as Leos desire that was wrongly presented to Barry, who painted himself as knowledgeable Amigan.

Quote:
Assuming that lawyers understand all the implications of a settlement agreement until it has been tested with words and actions...is patently insane. Simply, they did NOT.


I do believe the way they decided to test it is insane, it was quite obvious they had only rights to name, and they haven't in any way contacted AROS team. Even open source is great thing, teams of people do develop it and usually against its commercial exploitation: it is supposed to make computers cheaper for software, not having someone pretending to have OS of their own and selling computer for higher profit margin. In the end, they have exploited Ubuntu and Mint as much or worse then Amiga name and likely they would do the same for AROS, even if they could get it running. They were unsatisfied with price of driver anyway and were unlikely to pay it for C64x and were happily promoting Amigas as AROS ready just because they have chosen components wisely.

I do believe agreement clearly states that Amiga Inc cannot deliver any systems that boot to Workbench or alike, only straightforward emulation. We can find the agreement article, its kind of obvious to non lawyers that would be a break.

Even they could not use it for legal reasons as initial or only OS or bundled OS, having it supported by bounties, presented as existing on their website, would surely make better relations with real Amiga community. And Leo promised big time support.

As usual, with Workbench name and some other issues, it seems they haven't check legal possibilities to do something, but promised first and only later figured out that might bring legal problems. I am sure they will initially continue to do as long as possible - I do remember they promoted Hacked MacOS X on their initial OS lists and original Commodore forum, just as example of that rule. Even Amiga MIni design, if was major success, way too much look a like to MacMini in design and name, to be a possible legal thing. Not to mention infamous campaign.

I am however certain that even if they did use AROS (if Hyperion didnt reacted to protect its interest of having fake competitor) they wouldn't contribute it back, just way they did with Linux Mint and Ubuntu. It seems it was business made on someone elses work and PR all along. Just as difference it was interesting to see how hastily they reacted by iContain bussiness which was direct competitor offering the similar "products", even TVs and phones labeled Amiga, but for way more reasonable price.

Overall, many lessons what not to do can be learned. As well as it is kind of sad story of Amiga abuse in long and troubling after Commodore history. But kind of worst zombie revival of them all.

And as I am being warned not to fall on their every mention, I will end it here.

AROS episode was nicely explained by users on AROS Exec

Last edited by vox on 25-May-2013 at 10:53 PM.
Last edited by vox on 25-May-2013 at 10:51 PM.

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A1200 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 23:05:19
#157 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 3014
From: Westhall, UK

@vox

To write all that would give the impression that you are not right in the head dude. Give it up already. It wasn't and never was your fight and there is no fight now anyway.

Edit: typo

Last edited by A1200 on 25-May-2013 at 11:07 PM.

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vox 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 25-May-2013 23:17:25
#158 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2005
Posts: 3725
From: Belgrade, Serbia

@A1200

Quote:
To write all that would give the impression that you are not right in the head dude. Give it up already. It wasn't and never was your fight and there is no fight now anyway.


OK, that is what I do perceive as their failures. Same thing could be achieved, in different way. I might and should make it shorter.

But its unpleasant to be called insane ("Not right in the head").

If you feel any of my interpretation of events is way too romantic on how business should be done ("we are not charity!) or that some of the facts on what happened or was posted are way incorrect, please say so. It looks from today perspective as an exaggeration of their small LCC and its influence, but they tried to be "Amiga instead of Amiga" (kind of like Iznogud) with way too high nose and constant shift of plans, with only one original product: C64x case. Rest, including way Mint was used, I do perceive as kind of abuse. Maybe more then everyone else (looks like a summ of fears) but it really gives a bad taste. So here I find space for your insane argument

In a way, they targeted Amigans, trolling YT videos and Amiga boards with their promises, and shunned them by officially ignoring any development after Commodore demise, and presenting themselves as Commodore (and Amiga returned). That strange tactics has really drove me to kind of madness to devote few months to fight it back. Was not much of success on worldwide level, but surely brought some resistance and recorded some of their shady tactics and undelivered promises. And I am satisfied by that. Especially by them killing themselves, as I always throught such shady tactics and greed will.

Oh, it was just in resistance to the way they did what they did, my battle too.

But you are right, its completely over.
Its time to be happy by having more developments coming, like more drivers, more features, more apps.

Amigans have survived even new Commodore

Last edited by vox on 25-May-2013 at 11:28 PM.
Last edited by vox on 25-May-2013 at 11:27 PM.
Last edited by vox on 25-May-2013 at 11:23 PM.

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number6 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 10-Jun-2013 19:25:51
#159 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@thread

CommodoreUSA is still posting as of June 9:

Quote:
The C64x is now available for sale at retail in Italy. They are our only partner in Italy.
http://www.amibyte.com/index.php/it/
á

Source

I suppose existing stock isn't exhausted yet.

#6

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CritAnime 
Re: Commdore USA.. the final thread
Posted on 11-Jun-2013 9:39:24
#160 ]
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Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 735
From: UK

@number6

As you say how do we know for sure the stock is or isn't exhausted? How do we know they simply haven't been dumping stock into a dumpster? All we know is Amibyte is the only reseller seen to be in operation. So I suppose Harry (the guy running the social media) is just making sure it's advertised.

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