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PosterThread
Yo 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 11:28:14
#261 ]
Team Member
Joined: 8-Oct-2004
Posts: 2043
From: France, on an ADSL line

@TrevorDick

Quote:

TrevorDick wrote:

what else have the Romans done for us?

TrevorD



Pizza....

....and just where would the majority of the Amigaverse be without THAT invention?

_________________
Official Hyperion Zealot

(No, I didn't type that with a straight face.)

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Trixie 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 14:13:02
#262 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 2090
From: Czech Republic

@LyleHaze

A good reply but you know, the Amiga Whining Comedy (tm) will always go on:

1. There's no OS4.
2. Is it really legal?
3. OK but there's no hardware to run it.
4. The AmigaOne is too expensive...
5. ... and is no longer for sale.
6. The Sam is too low-end.
7. The OS is still beta.
8. There's no news.
9. The X1000 is too expensive.
10. The dev team keeps us in the dark.
11. And they lied about the netbook, too!
12. Geez, three new models, what's the big deal?
13. ...

_________________
The Rear Window blog

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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Rob 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 14:23:58
#263 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 6360
From: S.Wales

@Trixie

13. OS4 is no longer maintained.

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Boot_WB 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 14:40:46
#264 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@Trixie

Good point, but an alternative view would be:

2010:
Amiwest Announcements
- X1000 to be released by Summer 2011!
- 4.2 to follow soon after - will be awesome!
- Gallium & Multicore hype!
Actual progress (to Amiwest 2011):
- Blog entry: "As we move towards a 4.2 release" - SSolie

2011:
Amiwest Announcements
- X1000 delayed, but almost here!
- Netbook announced!
- Gallium & Multicore hype continued from previous hype!
- 4.2 release hype continued!
Actual progress (to Amiwest 2012):
- X1000 released
- No word on netbook
- No 4.2

2012:
Amiwest Announcements
- ha, ha!
- RadeonHD Warp3D driver announced!
- Gallium & Multicore hype continued from previous hype!
- 4.2 hype continued!
- Amiupdate announced! Subscription payment idea mooted and hastily dropped.
Actual progress (to Amiwest 2013):
- No official word on netbook (a reluctant unofficial "I've not been informed, last I knew.." 'on hold' statement is eventually given).
- No gallium/multicore
- No RadeonHD Warp3D driver
- No 4.2
- Amiupdate released! (first updates break systems)

2013:
Amiwest Announcements
- Cyrus, Cyrus +, Breezin announced!
- Netbook cancelled (look I've got an e-mail to prove it just happened last week!1)
- Gallium & Multicore hype continued from previous hype.
- 4.2 hype continued
- RadeonHD Warp3D driver kinda cancelled? Nobody seems entirely certain on that one.
Actual progress (to Amiwest 2013):
- tba

Feel free to fill in the blanks, or correct where I've got the years mixed up. The general trend (from an OS4 outsider's view*) is for announcements, misinformation, deliberately vague & misleading timescales, poor support and an unwillingness to stand by previous statements.
The last one is the killer, since it makes current and future statements (let alone promises) equally worthless.

This year's announcements seemed more grounded in reality (ie longer timescales to 4.1.7 let alone 4.2, gallium progress report, MP blog entry, etc) but given past performance I can't even say I have any confidence in those either.

A-Eon by contrast have stood by their plans, statements and announcements admirably - keeping their customers and potential customers informed of progress, any delays, and cost increases.

* I can't relistically call myself a potential customer of Hyperion anymore - Amiwest 2012 was the last point at which I would have considered buying an OS4 system - but I remain a potential customer of A-Eon.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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number6 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 14:52:10
#265 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11593
From: In the village

@Boot_WB

Actually some things move to a category of "low priority" and are no longer mentioned. You would have to inquire whether that is solely due to lack of resources or due to a change of approach.

Example:printing subsystem (mentioned at AmiWest 2012) not mentioned during the public segments at AmiWest 2013.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

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terminills 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 14:55:29
#266 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1472
From: Unknown

@Boot_WB

Quote:
A-Eon by contrast have stood by their plans, statements and announcements admirably - keeping their customers and potential customers informed of progress, any delays, and cost increases.



I completely agree with you here. :)

_________________
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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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tekmage 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 17:10:39
#267 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Mar-2005
Posts: 439
From: San Francisco

@terminills

That or not as old as Lyle :p

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terminills 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 17:30:02
#268 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1472
From: Unknown

@tekmage



Quote:
That or not as old as Lyle :p



Also true :P However I did pay for SAS/C for my A4000 years ago. :)

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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kamelito 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 17:38:54
#269 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Jul-2004
Posts: 815
From: Unknown

@lylehaze

I heard in one of the video that the Cyrus will come with an enhanced Xena chip, he said it was enhanced because you "asked" for it.
Don't know if you're able to tell us now how it is different from the one on the X1000, but if you can then don't hesitate :)

Regards
Kamelito

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ssolie 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 19:12:18
#270 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2755
From: Alberta, Canada

@Boot_WB
Quote:
Feel free to fill in the blanks, or correct where I've got the years mixed up.

I think you are taking things far too literally. Besides, everything is subject to change without notice.

It is clear to me that this list is meant for use by the prosecution in the jurisdiction is Salem so there really is no point in me trying to correct anything here.

@all
If anybody is having trouble interpreting anything I have stated then please email me directly. Not only can I explain things better but I can also provide a current update on whatever item you are curious about.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

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terminills 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 19:19:11
#271 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1472
From: Unknown

@ssolie


Quote:

It is clear to me that this list is meant for use by the prosecution in the jurisdiction is Salem so there really is no point in me trying to correct anything here.



Are you claiming people are eating ergot? :D

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"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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damocles 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 19:28:15
#272 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@terminills

Quote:
Are you claiming people are eating ergot? :D


That would explain alot!

_________________
Dammy

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lylehaze 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 19:40:07
#273 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1142
From: North Florida - Big Bend area.

@kamelit0
I did request some changes to the way the Xena chip interfaces to the rest of the system.
I can not (yet) give any details until I have had more time to review the new design.

@Yo
Since Pizza is considered a "Basic Food Group", I'm not sure HOW I would live without it.

@Trevor
I had to look up "What have the Romans done for Us?". Once I found a Python reference I knew I was on the right track.

@All
I hoped to add some positive outlook to this thread. Thank you each for your assistance.

Now back to the compiler for me.
:)

_________________
question=(2b||!(2b))

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Boot_WB 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 21:24:21
#274 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@ssolie

Who are you who are so learned in the ways of science?

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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Boot_WB 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 21:28:58
#275 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK


Quote:

ssolie wrote:
@Boot_WB
I think you are taking things far too literally. Besides, everything is subject to change without notice.


If taking Hyperion announcements at Amiwest is taking things far too literally, then yes.

Of course everything is subject to change without notice, but when you've laid out a plan in public, and are selling product on the back of where that plan is going, then I do think there is a responsibility to be clear about changes, delays, etc.

That's not nailing you to the wall, that's just expecting some communication to occur that doesn't turn out to be a total crock 3 weeks later.

Quote:
It is clear to me that this list is meant for use by the prosecution in the jurisdiction is Salem so there really is no point in me trying to correct anything here.


I find that personally insulting and offensive, but your choice to deflect from answering criticism about previous announcements and timescales doesn't exactly surprise, and gives me no further confidence that any of your more recent 'forward looking statements' will be any different.

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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eliyahu 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 21:57:35
#276 ]
Super Member
Joined: 3-Mar-2010
Posts: 1961
From: Waterbury, Connecticut (USA)

@Boot_WB

"i am ssolie, king of the amigans."
with apologies to king arthur

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

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Boot_WB 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 22:10:39
#277 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Feb-2006
Posts: 1134
From: Kingston upon Hull, UK

@eliyahu

Lol.

@SSolie

Re: post #275

You probably think I'm being really horrible, but I'm trying (once again, and with no real hope of success) to point out how damaging the disparity between announcements and reality is.

Things get delayed - it happens. Announce the delays along with the progress (see Joakim's blogs, UAE-JIT, jAmiga blogs, Hans's updates as examples) rather than just grandiose announcements, silence for months, then no further statement.

You'll note my previous post praised the more realistic recent announcements, but with the caveat that I don't have much confidence in it.
Confidence requires building up. I'd love to be able to have some confidence that OS4 is progressing, and that the finances, manpower and skillset is in place to make it so, so sell it to me - give me some confidence that the new announcements aren't like the old announcements.
A start would be admitting that - compared to the actual progress that has taken place - previous announcements/timescales have been woefully out of touch with reality.
Maybe even touching on why that is, and giving some assurance that problems have been addressed.
Then perhaps setting out a more accurate projection, and maybe trying to add some flesh to the bones of a development plan such that might be considered realistic or even plausible.

This is the kind of communication that I'd like to see, not just continuing to brush under the rug previous announcements and timescales.

Perhaps you do this on a smaller, interpersonal scale at Amiwest - I don't know. That's the point: The broader community doesn't get the personal updates, just the announcements and then eventually it becomes apparent that it's not happening, or is a lot longer way off than anticipated.

Also, it has become difficult to seperate communication with/by Hyperion from communication with/by yourself, so I apologise to you if I personalise frustrations which are aimed in actuality at Hyperion.

With respects



Rich

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

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sundown 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 22:42:12
#278 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@Boot_WB

Not going to quote anything, just we have arm chair lawyers & now arm chair developers that think its so easy to make a road map & life will just let it happen. One day your healthy, next day your in the hospital, crap happens to change whats planned & devleoper have better things to do then post in forums. Email ssolie with your issues instead of posting here, you might get the answers you want.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

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amigadave 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 28-Oct-2013 22:49:00
#279 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1732
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@Boot_WB

lack of communication, and keeping important information from the AmigaOS4.x users is my chief complaint with Hyperion and the one thing I would most like to see changed in how they operate.

I know that Solie's hands are tied most of the time, on what he can, and cannot say in public (or even in private to most of us), so I feel sorry for the position he is put into most of the time. I can only hope that the situation will improve, as Hyperion sees how damaging their current policies can be and have been, over the past few years.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

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wawa 
Re: amiwest news
Posted on 29-Oct-2013 0:34:25
#280 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

@sundown

Quote:
we have arm chair lawyers & now arm chair developers that think its so easy to make a road map & life will just let it happen


the actual problem is, we deep in our armchairs have to do with an "arm chair" company on the other side. because a real company would actually have to find ways to develop the business plan to convince investors and clients, instead to throw statements like "everything is a subject to change without notice" at the crowd, loyal, come whatever will be, will be.

employees shortage or fate is not an excuse for the company as such, as long as we are talking customer relation. and just childishly "playing" a sandbox kitchen produces appropriate results, cakes of sand. you cant eat that.

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