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PosterThread
AmigaBlitter 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 7-Sep-2016 6:09:21
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3394
From: Unknown

@Beans

In a recent Anandtech article and test seems that power8 beats x86 in some area. The price, moreover, lowered to a rate that really makes power8 more affordable than x86 xeon server.

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Beans 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 7-Sep-2016 21:46:22
#142 ]
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Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@AmigaBlitter

Hmm, if we had a bigger market and a backer with deeper pockets than Aeon...

I LIKE the idea of staying away from standard PC hardware, so Power8 appeals to me.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 7-Sep-2016 22:24:18
#143 ]
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Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3394
From: Unknown

@Beans

I don't know how big is the a-aeon pockets, but certainly thay're doing well.

Maybe involving one of the big such, IBM, Freescale (Npx) and so on...

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Beans 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 8-Sep-2016 1:09:34
#144 ]
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Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
...certainly thay're doing well.


Mmm...not that well.

Producing only 500-1000 boards at a time is more of a vanity project or overblown hobby than a realistic business plan.

Its about a single digit percentage of what would be needed to really consider the project successful.

On the other hand, Trevor's willingness to pursue it has really benefited what remains of our community. I'm grateful.

However, the funds needed to really develop the OS to take advantage of something like Power8 in a timely fashion, AND groom the whole product so it appeals to those outside our community?
That is a really tall order.

And at the pace things are going, I don't see something like that happening.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 8-Sep-2016 10:59:41
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3394
From: Unknown

@Beans

If they move the right steps you can have a digit to add to the machine count.

Of course a-eon can't start selling motherboard with a margin loss like sony did initially with PS3.

Maybe the solution is to go to IBM showing a market plan and so on...

I'm confident that this may be a good step, i don't know why

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Beans 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 8-Sep-2016 20:04:16
#146 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@AmigaBlitter

That would work IF IBM operated like most companies, but they don't.
They want to qualify the uses their products are put to, you can't just buy them.

Power8 will be a little different in that its an open platform, but you'd still be faced with the fact that the small size of our community (and its uncertain growth in the future) would severely limit profitability.

Edit - Instead of discussing systems that are not in production yet, we ought to be focused on what IS available.

http://www.tyan.com/solutions/tyan_openpower_system.html

Last edited by Beans on 08-Sep-2016 at 10:13 PM.

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billt 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 8-Sep-2016 21:58:01
#147 ]
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Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3050
From: Maryland, USA

@Beans

https://www.crowdsupply.com/raptorcs/talos

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Beans 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 8-Sep-2016 22:17:47
#148 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@billt

I already have a contact at Raptor, Bill.

But I do think this ISA deserves watching.
Its not the dead end that Freescale/NXP's designs represent.
AND, its not X64.

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Rob 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 8-Sep-2016 23:51:39
#149 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5659
From: S.Wales

@Beans

Quote:
Producing only 500-1000 boards at a time is more of a vanity project or overblown hobby than a realistic business plan.


Producing them in quantities of 10,000 would certainly bring prices down but there's a high possibility that they'd still only be able sell a few thousand and lose a lot of money.

The OS needs improving more and even A-EONs own APIs aren't quite there and there's simply not enough good unique software on the platform to appeal to anyone but a small hardcore fanbase.

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wawa 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 1:45:55
#150 ]
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Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5930
From: Unknown

@Rob

Quote:

Producing them in quantities of 10,000 would certainly bring prices down but there's a high possibility that they'd still only be able sell a few thousand and lose a lot of money.

The OS needs improving more and even A-EONs own APIs aren't quite there and there's simply not enough good unique software on the platform to appeal to anyone but a small hardcore fanbase.


from this perspective its imho plainly wrong to invest hundreds of thouands into hadware, that is obsolete the day it is released, and if it was even complete by itself, becomes more obsolete any other passing by day, while it is wainting for dedicated software to catch up.

the only sensible execuse for such an investment was, if the hardware was declared retro or meant for some other task beforeahnd. which is what i hope it was..

Last edited by wawa on 09-Sep-2016 at 03:05 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 09-Sep-2016 at 01:46 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 09-Sep-2016 at 01:46 AM.

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 6:19:06
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3394
From: Unknown

@Beans

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ibm-power8-nvidia-tesla-p100-minsky,32661.html

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AmigaBlitter 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 10:53:10
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3394
From: Unknown

@AmigaBlitter

http://www.fudzilla.com/news/processors/41571-ibm-rolls-out-power8-processer

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Beans 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 14:00:47
#153 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ibm-power8-nvidia-tesla-p100-minsky,32661.html


That link doesn't work for me.

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Beans 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 14:06:19
#154 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@wawa

Quote:
...its imho plainly wrong to invest hundreds of thouands into hadware, that is obsolete the day it is released, and if it was even complete by itself, becomes more obsolete any other passing by day...


ALL hardware slowly becomes obsolete from the day its produced.
And this community is cheering on the recreation of obsolete hardware (like the C64 and legacy Amigas) because they throw the term "Retro" at them.

I'm more focused on utility, and NG hardware offers more of that than legacy hardware.
So, you have your "humble" opinion, and I have mine.

And since PowerPCs are still kicking Intel ass, obsolete is not a word I'd use.

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wawa 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 15:14:43
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5930
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
ALL hardware slowly becomes obsolete from the day its produced.


yes, this fact is not even restricted to computer hardware exclusively. but usually a product is meant to be used and pay off itself within certain time before a more advanced replacement becomes available. obviously this category doesnt apply here since the so called "ng hardware" cannot be effectively used for productivity anyway. (nor for any other task computers are being usually used today, like gaming, social networks, whatever..)

Quote:
And this community is cheering on the recreation of obsolete hardware (like the C64 and legacy Amigas) because they throw the term "Retro" at them.


right. this is the only context the so called "ng hardware" can be considered, as collectible. funny thing is, it is a colletible with no paricular features of a colletible. features, which would justify its value as an unique item worth to have. this hardware has no legacy, no history, no unique partys or architecture. it doesnt even seem to gain value as rare collectible use to.

Quote:

I'm more focused on utility, and NG hardware offers more of that than legacy hardware.


curious, what utility would that be. graphics? sound? programming? bet none of the above, you would still be mercilessly restricted by the lack of proper software, and speed.

i know about but one application that works great on my amigas, and is ideal for portable emulated usage, which is hd-rec. but it seems it has (stability?)problems on os4 anyway or so i recall.

Quote:
So, you have your "humble" opinion, and I have mine.


be my guest.

Quote:
And since PowerPCs are still kicking Intel ass, obsolete is not a word I'd use.


news to me. i guess i must have been living under the rock since years, because i have not noticed everybody around uses ppc harware by now. or maybe they simply didnt know yet, ppc is better. how about to teach them the truth?

Last edited by wawa on 09-Sep-2016 at 03:16 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 09-Sep-2016 at 03:15 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 17:02:34
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8644
From: Unknown

@wawa

Quote:
from this perspective its imho plainly wrong to invest hundreds of thouands into hadware, that is obsolete the day it is released, and if it was even complete by itself, becomes more obsolete any other passing by day, while it is wainting for dedicated software to catch up.


You search logic in Amiga market? Good luck!

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ne_one 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 9-Sep-2016 23:01:19
#157 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 771
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
I'm more focused on utility, and NG hardware offers more of that than legacy hardware.


If you're emphasizing utility, investing in hardware is pure folly.

If the game plan (is there a game plan?) is to continue development of the existing OS, it needs to become platform agnostic.

If the strategy is to adopt a donor OS then it will already support multiple architectures.

Quote:
And since PowerPCs are still kicking Intel ass, obsolete is not a word I'd use.


"Obsolete" is the word we can safely use for the OS.

Just because you can add a V8 to a ratty old Studebaker doesn't mean people will rush out to buy them.

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Beans 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 3:19:21
#158 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 447
From: Bear Delaware USA

@wawa

Yes, obviously you haven't been paying attention to the thread. We've been discussing Power8 which is the current latest generation of the PowerPC.
And Goggle is supporting its development and use.
Further, the benches just provided just a few posts ago place Power8 in a pretty good light when compared to Intel processors.
Further, unlike X64 (and like ARM), Power8 is an open syandard you can buy a license to manufacture.

As to productivity software, I use web browsers, PDF viewers and other utilitarian software under MorphOS daily.

Maybe YOU can't fathom that, but with over 35 years using a variety of operating systems, NG OS' have an adequate level of productivity to suit several of my uses.

Last edited by Beans on 10-Sep-2016 at 03:20 AM.

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wawa 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 8:26:02
#159 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5930
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
Power8


oh, i have not been aware this is supported, envisoned or available as option for any of the ng systems. sorry..

Quote:
browsers, PDF viewers


not sure if this counts as "productivity", but then what concerns browsers there is to my knowledge currently just one really working option, almost comparable to todays standards on other platforms, namely odyssey. and (as we had it lately) this browser is crippled on ppc due to webkit not taking care of big endian any longer. so the only up to date verion of this browser is currently exclusively available for aros (x86). what concerns pdf, i dont even know if viewers available on "ng machines" would correctly display the pdf files currently in circulation , id be rather cautious about it, as i recall to have red something to the contrary.

Quote:
Maybe YOU can't fathom that, but with over 35 years using a variety of operating systems, NG OS' have an adequate level of productivity to suit several of my uses.


maybe.. but are you sure, you dont have a pc standing around somewhere in your house? or maybe your wife has one? ;) because if a regular x86 user could be convinced that an "ng machine" would be an upgrade, then where were these countless threads about how to gain more users coming from? nevertheless, if you can successfully restrict yourself to functionality you are being offered with "ng machines", its very impressive.

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Hammer 
Re: Some Power related news
Posted on 10-Sep-2016 9:04:23
#160 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3927
From: Australia

@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

AmigaBlitter wrote:
@Beans

In a recent Anandtech article and test seems that power8 beats x86 in some area. The price, moreover, lowered to a rate that really makes power8 more affordable than x86 xeon server.


With Intel based Haswell based cores?
From http://www.anandtech.com/show/9567/the-power-8-review-challenging-the-intel-xeon-/17


Xeon e5 2699 v3 (18 cores at 2.3 Ghz)'s price was reduced to $3760 from Anandtech's $4000 price tag.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/cPx9TW/intel-cpu-cm8064401739300


Intel Xeon E5-2697 V4 (18 cores at 2.3 Ghz) is price at $2662.99
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/NKp323/intel-cpu-bx80660e52697v4



From http://www.anandtech.com/show/9567/the-power-8-review-challenging-the-intel-xeon-/18

Before we close things out, let's spend a moment summarizing our results and comparing the performance we saw to the kind of performance advantages that IBM advertises POWER8 is capable of.

From a high level perspective, the S822L is more expensive and consumes a lot more power than a comparable Xeon system.

With limited optimization and with the current Ubuntu 15.04, the performance-per-watt ratio favors Intel even more as the POWER8 barely outperforms the very efficient 120W TDP Xeons. So there is no denying that the Intel systems offer a superior performance/watt ratio.


This server talk is useless for SOHO markets.

Where's IBM Power8 solution that can replace my Intel Core i7-4790K with a similar price range?




Last edited by Hammer on 10-Sep-2016 at 09:27 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Sep-2016 at 09:23 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 10-Sep-2016 at 09:08 AM.

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