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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 21-Jan-2015 14:59:00
#141 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote:
@BrianK
Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou,

I recall you complaining that science has never directly measured gravity.. Science fixed that for you.

http://m.phys.org/news/2015-01-gravity-curvature.html

So how does this disprove that gravity is merely radiation pressure/shielding?
Oh it doesn't - that's right.


Lou, You were the claiming the indirect observation of gravity as definitive proof that gravity can't be a real force. I was informing you that science has progressed and one of your old claims has become a canard.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 21-Jan-2015 19:14:55
#142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote:
The difference is my presenter matches his theory to direct observation [at every scale] where as direct observation makes gravity worshippers look like nimrods..

and

http://www.universetoday.com/118252/astronomers-are-predicting-at-least-two-more-large-planets-in-the-solar-system/

Looks like we have a planet X ... and Y.
The plot thickens...
The large point on these two is the same - hypothesis is not proof.

We know astronomy has predicted planets existing before. By using Newtonian gravity Neptune was discovered this way. Others, like Vulcan were not discovered and since have been discarded. The importance and usability comes with proof not hypothesis. You want us to accept Nibiru is real. Our acceptance is easy bring the proof.
(A bit of history side note: This is a really great example. See Newtonian's prediction of Mercury failed and science was befuddled as to why Mercury didn't spin into the sun and burn up. Because with the Newtonian Gravity that is what was dictated. Science worked on this problem and after time found an improved version - Einsteinian Gravity - which in it's equations saved Mercury from it's firey death. As such, it was clear that Einstein's version was more accurate. It complied with all known cases and it extended to problems that couldn't be accounted for. And importantly it was demonstrated to be more correct.)


If you want us to accept Primers claiming his hypothesis are really interesting is an insufficent means to convince. We're looking for demonstration. The guy claimed to be making 6 movies and quit early. Perhaps he's gone on to try to evidence his view not only does what we know today but extends to the unknowns. Thereby giving us new working knowledge (such as what we saw with Einstein's gravity over Newton's version.)

I find it interesting you're backing the Einsteinian predictions of astronomers. If found it is further demonstrates the formula's they're using from Einstein do indeed work. It's fairly bad evidence for your case that others do it better. What we see is that you aren't using your beliefs to make predictions.

It'd be far, far more interesting and supportive of your case if the Primers predicted the 2 planets and the scientists said - oh shit we found 2 planets and our Einsteinian equations can't account for them. You know it'd bring - EVIDENCE that Primer has it going on. Maybe you can use these beliefs instead of relying on Einstein yourself.


Again, I have free cold beer waiting for you when you swing by on your car that uses things your sources hypotheize and you believe to be true.. Any idea when you might arrive?

Last edited by BrianK on 21-Jan-2015 at 07:19 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 23-Jan-2015 17:01:53
#143 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Thought you might like this. Another experiment that the Speed of Light is not a constant . So while this showed we can run light slower there's been 0 experiments indicating that light can be run faster than 'c'. When thought of on the larger picture this experiment does show reasons why 'c' probably can't be breeched using this method.

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Lou 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 24-Jan-2015 18:54:20
#144 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3871
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Thought you might like this. Another experiment that the Speed of Light is not a constant . So while this showed we can run light slower there's been 0 experiments indicating that light can be run faster than 'c'. When thought of on the larger picture this experiment does show reasons why 'c' probably can't be breeched using this method.

I've been telling you light slows down for years.
Recall the videos I shared regarding the fine structure constant and the speed of transition?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4I5mgBKPZY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgjINXby-rQ

Last edited by Lou on 24-Jan-2015 at 07:16 PM.

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Lou 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 24-Jan-2015 19:00:59
#145 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3871
From: Rhode Island

@BrianK

Quote:

BrianK wrote:
@Lou

Quote:

Lou wrote:
The difference is my presenter matches his theory to direct observation [at every scale] where as direct observation makes gravity worshippers look like nimrods..

and

http://www.universetoday.com/118252/astronomers-are-predicting-at-least-two-more-large-planets-in-the-solar-system/

Looks like we have a planet X ... and Y.
The plot thickens...
The large point on these two is the same - hypothesis is not proof.

We know astronomy has predicted planets existing before. By using Newtonian gravity Neptune was discovered this way. Others, like Vulcan were not discovered and since have been discarded. The importance and usability comes with proof not hypothesis. You want us to accept Nibiru is real. Our acceptance is easy bring the proof.
(A bit of history side note: This is a really great example. See Newtonian's prediction of Mercury failed and science was befuddled as to why Mercury didn't spin into the sun and burn up. Because with the Newtonian Gravity that is what was dictated. Science worked on this problem and after time found an improved version - Einsteinian Gravity - which in it's equations saved Mercury from it's firey death. As such, it was clear that Einstein's version was more accurate. It complied with all known cases and it extended to problems that couldn't be accounted for. And importantly it was demonstrated to be more correct.)


If you want us to accept Primers claiming his hypothesis are really interesting is an insufficent means to convince. We're looking for demonstration. The guy claimed to be making 6 movies and quit early. Perhaps he's gone on to try to evidence his view not only does what we know today but extends to the unknowns. Thereby giving us new working knowledge (such as what we saw with Einstein's gravity over Newton's version.)

I find it interesting you're backing the Einsteinian predictions of astronomers. If found it is further demonstrates the formula's they're using from Einstein do indeed work. It's fairly bad evidence for your case that others do it better. What we see is that you aren't using your beliefs to make predictions.

It'd be far, far more interesting and supportive of your case if the Primers predicted the 2 planets and the scientists said - oh shit we found 2 planets and our Einsteinian equations can't account for them. You know it'd bring - EVIDENCE that Primer has it going on. Maybe you can use these beliefs instead of relying on Einstein yourself.


Again, I have free cold beer waiting for you when you swing by on your car that uses things your sources hypotheize and you believe to be true.. Any idea when you might arrive?

Einstein's STILL YET theory works "good enough" for the solar system because it was formulated by what was easily observable.

I believe part 3 of the Primer Fields videos I linked showed you how light can bend.

As for beer and my car - you still haven't proved that the THEORY of GR isn't anything more than a theory. The theories I link match observation at all scales...something GR does not do.

Oh and I took 2nd place in my car at the track almost 2 years ago. With the mods I've made for this coming season - I will win first this coming season. So far my car has produced more results than you.

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Lou 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 24-Jan-2015 19:09:17
#146 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3871
From: Rhode Island

Edward Snowden has taught us that conspiracy theories are real.
Recent documents show that the government employs people LIKE SOME OF YOU do derail information in forums such as this one.

You're labels of me I find amusing. Labelling me a "conspiracy theorist". It's actually part of the protocol.

Did you know the government conspired to kill Martin Luther King Jr.?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Martin_Luther_King%2C_Jr.

He even predicted his own assassination after the Kennedy one...
...but according to government trolls - conspiracies don't exist...

yea uhm about that:

Conspiracy:
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law: An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design.

(mind you it needs updating past 2003)

List of Conspiracies that turned out to be True:
•The Catiline conspiracies in the 1st century BC.
•A group of Roman senators, calling itself the Liberatores, hoped to restore the Roman Republic by killing Julius Caesar in 44 BC.
•The Pisonian conspiracy AD 65.
•The Pazzi conspiracy, which included the Pope, of the late 15th century.
•The Babington Plot, as the event which most directly led to the execution of Mary, Queen of Scots. This was a second major plot against Elizabeth I of England after the Ridolfi plot. It was named after the chief conspirator Sir Anthony Babington (1561–1586), a young Catholic nobleman from Derbyshire.
•The Throckmorton Plot, was an attempt by English Roman Catholics in 1583 to murder Queen Elizabeth I of England and replace her with her cousin Mary, Queen of Scots. The plot is named after the key conspirator, Sir Francis Throckmorton, a catholic nobleman, who confessed to the plot under torture.
•The Main Plot of 1603, was a conspiracy by English Catholics, allegedly led by catholic noblemen Henry Brooke, Lord Cobham, Sir George Brooke and Thomas Grey, 15th Baron Grey de Wilton, to remove King James I from the English throne, replacing him by aid of Spain with his cousin Arabella (or Arbella) Stuart.
•The Bye Plot of 1603, led to the execution of Sir George Brooke
•The Gunpowder Plot of 1605, in earlier centuries often called the Gunpowder Treason Plot, was a failed assassination attempt against King James I of England and VI of Scotland by a group of provincial English Catholic Noblemen and Gentry led by Sir Robert Catesby. The plan was to blow up the House of Lords during the State Opening of Parliament on 5 November 1605, the prelude to a popular revolt in the Midlands during which James's nine-year-old daughter, Princess Elizabeth, was to be installed as the Catholic head of state. Catesby may have embarked on the scheme after hopes of securing greater religious tolerance under King James had faded, leaving many English Catholics disappointed. His fellow plotters included Thomas Wintour, Robert Wintour, John Wright, Christopher Wright, Guy Fawkes, Robert Keyes, John Grant, Lord of the Manor, Sir Thomas Percy, Sir Ambrose Rookwood, Sir Everard Digby, Sir Francis Tresham and Thomas Bates
•The Anjala conspiracy of 1788
•The conspiracy of 1865 to assassinate U.S. President Abraham Lincoln and members of his cabinet
•The French government's attempted cover-up following Émile Zola's accusations in the Dreyfus Affair, starting in 1894.
•The 1903 efforts by the Tsar's secret police to foment anti-Semitism by presenting The Protocols of the Elders of Zion as an authentic text.[1]
•The 1933 Business Plot - Fascists Coup d'état attempt in USA
•The 1939 Operation Himmler and its Gleiwitz incident - False Flag Terrorism by Nazi Germany in order to get a pretext for Invasion of Poland
•The 1939 Shelling of Mainila, False Flag Terrorism by USSR in order to get a pretext for Winter War
•CIA Operation Mockingbird, from 1948. In 1976, then CIA director George H. W. Bush ordered that paid media recruiting would be prohibited.
•The 1942 Wannsee Conference, 3rd Reich Nazis related to Final Solution.
•The 1945 OSS Operation Paperclip, the extraction of top Nazi scientists (incl. SS nazi Party members).
•CIA MKULTRA mind control program, from 1953 and continuing.
•The 1954 'Lavon affair'- Operation Susannah; False Flag Terrorism by Mossad
•The 1962 CIA Operation Northwoods
•CIA Project Cherry, United States non-stop attempt to assassinate Norodom Sihanouk
•The 1969 Manson Family murders
•The 1972 Watergate burglary and cover-up scandals
•The 1980 October surprise
•The 1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack
•The 1987 Iran-Contra Affair
•The supposed plot of Caucasians to regain control of and take over Washington, D.C.
•Breakup of Yugoslavia - To Kill a Nation: The Attack on Yugoslavia, Verso, 2000, ISBN 1859847765
•The Enron manipulation of the California Electricity Market during the California electricity crisis
•The Mafia
•Various CIA involvements in overseas coups d'état
•The 1991 Testimony of Nayirah before the U.S. Congress to rally the support of the U.S. public to launch the Gulf War
•The Tuskegee Study of Untreated Syphilis in the Negro Male[2]
•The General Motors streetcar conspiracy[3]
•The plot by some gaullists of the French Secret Service to destabilise future president Georges Pompidou, known as the Markovic affair
•The series of incidents in Italy connected to the so called "strategy of tension"
•CIA Operation Gladio, a NATO 'stay-behind' Operation
•The 2000 CIA Operation Merlin
•9/11 in 2001
•The 2002 Downing Street Memo
•The 2002 September Dossier UK and USA Governments Lies and Forgeries to Justify invasion of Iraq
•The 2002 Yellowcake forgery
•The 2003 Iraq and weapons of mass destruction reports in order to get a United Nations Security Council Resolution 1441 pretext to Iraq War

Last edited by Lou on 24-Jan-2015 at 07:10 PM.
Last edited by Lou on 24-Jan-2015 at 07:10 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 24-Jan-2015 22:15:09
#147 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Quote:
I've been telling you light slows down for years.
And as I said I thought you'd be interested in some more confirming evidence. A Thanks isn't needed.

Quote:
Einstein's STILL YET theory works "good enough" for the solar system because it was formulated by what was easily observable.
Several times I've discussed the difference between a theory and a scientific Theory. Gravity being the later. I'm not going to recap but I will mention that you appear to yet understand the difference.

Quote:
Oh and I took 2nd place in my car at the track almost 2 years ago. With the mods I've made for this coming season - I will win first this coming season.
Even here we see you making statements of truth without evidence. It's not you 'will win first'. It's that you 'hypothsize you will win first'. The actual out come is evidenced at the end of the racing season results. Though it would be fun to bring my money to the racing bookie say here's a million on Lou and request immediate pay out because you'll be first by year end. I'm sure that bookie would pay before any races were run.

Quote:
Edward Snowden has taught us that conspiracy theories are real.
No, Snowden showed us that some conspiracies do exist. Through use of your examples I think we can say that this was demonstrated way before Snowden's Grandma was born. Though, the fact that there exists the case that Conspiracies exist does not mean that every Conspiracy theory is true.

I don't believe I've called you a Conspiracy Nutter but I have demanded you evidence your claims. Showing us a YouTube of another claim isn't evidencing. It results in you stacking more work onto your 'yet to be proven' pile.

For example the alien built the pyramids is a Conspiracy theory because it's a hypothesis about how the pyramids were built that actually has the worst and most inconsistent evidence. Those that think it is the truth have some big proof to bring about extraterristals that enjoy zipping around the universe to only stack some rocks. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Last edited by BrianK on 24-Jan-2015 at 10:19 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 24-Jan-2015 at 10:18 PM.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 26-Jan-2015 2:00:41
#148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Here is an example of a Conspiracy theory, getting rid of incandescent light bulbs is a socialist plot. It turns out there was no conspiracy. Flash back to 2007 when that ct was foisted. After nearly two years of cfls and leds it is very clear in no way did they usher in a socialist USA.

A recent example of what I'm talking about. Just because a Conspiracy theory exists it doesn't mean it is a true conspiracy. People are constructed to identify patterns but sometimes people see patterns where there are none. The are even defined words around some similar false pattern building -Pareidolia for example.

(Corrected misspelling)

Last edited by BrianK on 27-Jan-2015 at 08:25 PM.
Last edited by BrianK on 26-Jan-2015 at 02:29 AM.

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Nimrod 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 26-Jan-2015 16:16:13
#149 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1206
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
I've been telling you light slows down for years.
We all know light slows down, it also bends. We also know that light doesn't slow down to 1.05 x 10^6 m/sec every time it approaches an atom. And Znidarsics equation only works when C=1.05 x 10^6 since that is the value he inserts as λf (wavelength times frequency)

Quote:
you still haven't proved that the THEORY of GR isn't anything more than a theory.
I think you need to go back to school and learn what a scientific theory is and how it compares with a "theory" about why your team didn't win the last game.
A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses that have been supported with repeated testing. If enough evidence accumulates to support a hypothesis, it moves to the next step - a theory - in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon.
A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method, and repeatedly confirmed through observation and experimentation.

GR tells us that for the universe to work in the way we see it working it needs more mass, and more energy than we were aware of, but it also tells us where to look to find the extra mass and energy. And as it says "Seek and ye shall find" and when we seek, we find dark matter and dark energy, right where GR tells us it should be.

_________________
When in trouble, fear or doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 28-Jan-2015 22:14:03
#150 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

Other Earths It seems the close-in rocky planet with gas giants on the outside of solar systems is a fairly common happening in our universe.

It makes the search for life 'easier' since we know the closer a planet is the sun the more likely it is to be rocky and therefore more like ours. Of course we need LOTS more data to show us if Gas Giant or Ice Giant life exists and if it is/or is not more common than life on the rocky planets.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 30-Jan-2015 14:56:52
#151 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Look Io engines at work. http://www.theskepticsguide.org/the-engines-of-dawn-and-the-dwarf-planet-ceres

Just as we had said the science has showed it does work it is just slow as snot. Got any Primer engines to race us?

Not all Conspiracy theories are real conspiracies - http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/peddling-paranoia-top-10-right-wing-conspiracy-theories

Last edited by BrianK on 04-Feb-2015 at 03:53 AM.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 4-Feb-2015 15:52:16
#152 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

General Relativity predicted TimeTravel appears to work on the quantum level

I'll add the default disclaimer that 1 experiment is insufficient to establish validity. What it is, is a start of walking the long road to confirmation.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 17-Feb-2015 11:04:31
#153 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Good read - Chariots if the Gods, ignoring the evidence. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2015/02/von-danikens-delusion-ignoring-the-known-part-1/

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 2-Mar-2015 23:19:30
#154 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

Quantum Mechanics tells us that light is BOTH a particle and a wave.

Now we have a photo of light and it shows the duality of a Wave-particle

Also, as the article mention, this is further evidence that Einstein was right, as was awarding his Nobel.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 3-Mar-2015 23:39:00
#155 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

Advanced LIGO

LIGO is built to detect gravity waves. The first experiment was a trial run to demonstrate the technology worked as expected. The 'advanced' is bumping up the power 10x. It's with this increase that science hopes to detect gravity waves.

It's a very interesting article at how small 'small' is going to be for this detector and how big (aka far out into space) they're reaching to find something that'll trip the detector.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 19-Mar-2015 15:12:02
#156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

Einstein's SpaceTime 'foam' confirmed after his prediction 100yrs ago.

...
A baby step closer in rectifying Einstein and the Quantum.

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Lou 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 30-Apr-2015 19:30:37
#157 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 2-Nov-2004
Posts: 3871
From: Rhode Island

http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/30/8521691/nasa-seemingly-impossible-space-drive-test-succeeds

I'm sure you'll keep ignoring the elephant in the room.

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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 1-May-2015 2:18:56
#158 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Maybe we aren't talking about it as it isn't new.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive

The NASA test had 50millinewtons of thrust. It wouldn't move a Fiero.

The wild unscientific crowd is crying warp drive. The experimentors have no such illusion.


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BrianK 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 1-May-2015 2:32:49
#159 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2003
Posts: 8111
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA

@Lou

Rm duplicate

Last edited by BrianK on 01-May-2015 at 02:33 AM.

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Nimrod 
Re: Nibiru, what if ? - Part 4
Posted on 1-May-2015 18:18:52
#160 ]
Super Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2010
Posts: 1206
From: Untied Kingdom

@Lou

Quote:
http://www.theverge.com/2015/4/30/8521691/nasa-seemingly-impossible-space-drive-test-succeeds

I'm sure you'll keep ignoring the elephant in the room.


The elephant in the room that you continue to ignore is the one called Orders of Magnitude The thrust acheived was somewhat slightly less than fifty billion TeraNewtons. This story will eventually fizzle out like the original cold fusion or even the FTL neutrinos.

_________________
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