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      /  Emulation: A passion
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PosterThread
fishy_fis 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 16-Oct-2014 15:42:54
#221 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 2108
From: Australia

Anyone tried 68k macos SoftWindows, or other x86 emulators?
I found a few videos on youtube a while ago of a guy running one under shapeshifter and he said that its faster than pc-task running natively.

I'll get around to it eventually myself, just wondering if anyone else has used them yet? Could be an interesting experiment for amithlon,... x86 cpu emulating 680x0 cpu, running 68k amiga os, emulating a 68k mac running mac os, emulating a pc :) Despite that though it'd probably run quite well given that shapeshifter uses the hosts cpu.
If any of these 68k mac emulators of x86 pcs have 386 emulation I'll try dos doom when I get the above setup.

I'll have to see how many layers of emulation I can get going as well. Pointless, but a weird sort of fun.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 16-Oct-2014 18:44:46
#222 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

dont belive too much ... softwindows is good in some way and worst in some other .. i had been tested all working x86 emulators on MacOsX ...
Real and Softwindows are the fastest and have great vesa video emulation plus the opportunity for use as native the 2x 3dfx on mac with pci.

Realpc probably have good cpu compatibility but video rendering is not the best.
GuestPc have a real fast 2d video rendering but the cpu is like a p3 500mhz in speed and is limited to 512mb of ram ...

this is the results of Vpc with quake

Vpc
Dos (1 colum):
Win: (2 colum)

320x200 = 105.2 fps 68.4 fps
640x480 = 46.8 fps 38.2 fps (the AmigaOne Xe 933 gave me 47 fps)
800x600 = 36.1 fps 29.6 fps
1024x768 = 26.8 fps
1280x1024 = 17.3

note 640x480 run like 1280x1024 on softwindows98

Last edited by tlosm on 16-Oct-2014 at 07:42 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 16-Oct-2014 at 07:40 PM.

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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 16-Oct-2014 20:06:28
#223 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

allow me to post a graph about this bench.
You should add 1024x768 and 1280x1024 for Quake with Winquake

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 16-Oct-2014 20:21:15
#224 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

i have to rise the video ram of the emulator but it will took code cache from the jit.
with worst performances

edit: sorry in windowed mode can go max 800x600
i tested with winquake pro too software max 800x600

Last edited by tlosm on 16-Oct-2014 at 08:30 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-Oct-2014 19:11:47
#225 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

OsX tiger quake nosound 1 Vpc winxp


320x240 78,3 fps
640x480 45.4 fps
800x600 = 37.7 fps

Dos

320x200 = 106.0 fps
640x480 = 47,8 fps
800x600= 39,1 fps
1024x768 = 27,2 fps
1280x1024 = 17,6 fps

will check with no audio in Leopard too.

This is leopard (tiger look like more faster)

103.8
50,6
37,1
25,7
16,8

win
65,8
40,7
32,9


I had been try to use lame but it crash ... i made test with the version for osx G5 altivec

this is my version of lame (note it use only one core):
http://tmkk.undo.jp/lame/index_e.html

this is the sound i had been use:
http://www.brainybetty.com/FacebookFans/Feb112010/ChillingMusic.wav

this is the result:

-V5

./lame -V5 /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.wav
LAME 3.99.5 32bits (http://lame.sf.net)
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 16538 Hz - 17071 Hz
Encoding /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.wav
to /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=5)
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1051/1051 (100%)| 0:00/ 0:00| 0:01/ 0:01| 31.199x| 0:00
32 [ 1] *
40 [ 0]
48 [ 0]
56 [ 0]
64 [ 0]
80 [ 0]
96 [ 5] %
112 [ 420] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%******************************************
128 [ 452] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%****************************************
160 [ 11] %*
192 [ 104] %%%%%%%*********
224 [ 30] %%***
256 [ 27] %%%**
320 [ 1] %
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
134.2 38.2 61.8 77.7 12.9 9.4
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: +0.5dB



-V0
./lame -V0 /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.wav
LAME 3.99.5 32bits (http://lame.sf.net)
polyphase lowpass filter disabled
Encoding /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.wav
to /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III VBR(q=0)
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1051/1051 (100%)| 0:01/ 0:01| 0:01/ 0:01| 27.183x| 0:00
32 [ 1] *
40 [ 0]
48 [ 0]
56 [ 0]
64 [ 0]
80 [ 0]
96 [ 0]
112 [ 0]
128 [ 0]
160 [ 0]
192 [ 0]
224 [ 89] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
256 [ 581] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
320 [ 380] %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
276.2 99.9 0.1 77.7 12.9 9.4
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: +0.5dB

-b192

./lame -b192 /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.wav
LAME 3.99.5 32bits (http://lame.sf.net)
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 18671 Hz - 19205 Hz
Encoding /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.wav
to /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III (7.3x) 192 kbps qval=3
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1051/1051 (100%)| 0:01/ 0:01| 0:01/ 0:01| 24.734x| 0:00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
192.0 69.0 31.0 80.6 11.2 8.1
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: +0.8dB

-b320 -q0

./lame -b320 -q0 /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.wav
LAME 3.99.5 32bits (http://lame.sf.net)
Using polyphase lowpass filter, transition band: 20094 Hz - 20627 Hz
Encoding /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.wav
to /Users/intermediadc/Downloads/ChillingMusic.mp3
Encoding as 44.1 kHz j-stereo MPEG-1 Layer III (4.4x) 320 kbps qval=0
Frame | CPU time/estim | REAL time/estim | play/CPU | ETA
1051/1051 (100%)| 0:06/ 0:06| 0:06/ 0:06| 4.5758x| 0:00
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kbps LR MS % long switch short %
320.0 99.9 0.1 80.4 11.3 8.3
Writing LAME Tag...done
ReplayGain: +0.5dB

Last edited by tlosm on 17-Oct-2014 at 07:58 PM.
Last edited by tlosm on 17-Oct-2014 at 07:51 PM.

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-Oct-2014 20:42:25
#226 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

Quote:

OsX tiger quake nosound 1 Vpc winxp

Win
800x600 = 37.7 fps

Dos
800x600= 39,1 fps

OsX Leopard:

win
800x600 = 32,9

DOS
800x600 = 37,1


Tiger is slightly faster only with Winquake, but at higher resolution both have the same performance. however Quake it run very well as far as 800x600.
It's no important that VPC emulate only 1 core because this old games not require more core or more processor..


Quote:


-V5


no -V5.
you have to make it at default.

Lame musc.wav music.mp3



Quote:

1051/1051 (100%)| 0:00/ 0:00| 0:01/ 0:01| 31.199x| 0:00



you have to use at least a 3 -5 minutes song to have real peformance.
download from here. it free music
xoomer.virgilio.it/tuxcam/wave/osaka_theory.rar

Last edited by Seiya on 17-Oct-2014 at 09:08 PM.
Last edited by Seiya on 17-Oct-2014 at 09:06 PM.
Last edited by Seiya on 17-Oct-2014 at 08:47 PM.
Last edited by Seiya on 17-Oct-2014 at 08:43 PM.
Last edited by Seiya on 17-Oct-2014 at 08:43 PM.

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cdimauro 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 17-Oct-2014 23:13:52
#227 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3104
From: Germany

I think that there are two different arguments / topics that should be split.

One is the original topic, so showing emulators running in our systems. Here it makes sense to have only native emulators running.

The other is regarding performance. Again, it's better to have native applications running, keeping out synthetic benchmarks.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-Oct-2014 0:07:49
#228 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

yes i know but have 3 cores been used for the emulation eg 1 cpu 1 gpu and 1 the remaining part of the virtual machine i think will was better ;) the last one for the Os :P

this is possible because yabause did this on linux , or example GCC compiling too ...
are really rare see the 4 cpu been used on MacOs X 10.5 with one program... think this only 7 do this on PowerMac G5: Logic Pro, Final Cut pro, GCC , and 4 browsers.

Last edited by tlosm on 18-Oct-2014 at 12:08 AM.

_________________
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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-Oct-2014 2:15:13
#229 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia



Quote:

cdimauro wrote:

One is the original topic, so showing emulators running in our systems. Here it makes sense to have only native emulators running.

Right!



Quote:
The other is regarding performance. Again, it's better to have native applications running, keeping out synthetic benchmarks.

Right again.
i think. it should be better to not post "here" benchmark of emulated environment, even it could be very interesting for many of us.

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cdimauro 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-Oct-2014 8:07:59
#230 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 3104
From: Germany

A proper, independent, thread can be created for this.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 18-Oct-2014 9:30:48
#231 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

here is http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=39443&forum=4

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 1-Nov-2014 18:40:24
#232 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

and Ladys and Getleman this is Aros Icaros desktop 2.0 on virtual pc PowerMac G5 Quad ..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGGMOsTqh70&feature=youtu.be

PowerPc Rulez!

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 1-Nov-2014 21:13:13
#233 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

fast, but not much smooth.
Or is it your screen recorder?

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 1-Nov-2014 21:22:21
#234 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

yes seya all because ScreenFlow it drain really much cpu timing and the result is what you see.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 1-Nov-2014 21:53:52
#235 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm

however your x86 cpu emulated is enough to use AROS :)

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 1-Nov-2014 22:26:43
#236 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

this is qemu check how much is slow compared with virtualpc ... for sure on Vpc aros is usable ;)

Icaros 2 on Qemu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l9wJnPBB2o&feature=youtu.be

Quake sdl on Aros VPC 320x240 = 117 fps 640x480 54fps :) if you consider on Xe 933 i have 47 , on Pegasos 2 1266ghz 63 and 61 on Sam 460 i think is good :P

(note sdl are totally software on Vpc)

Last edited by tlosm on 01-Nov-2014 at 10:27 PM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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Seiya 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 1-Nov-2014 23:29:09
#237 ]
Super Member
Joined: 19-Aug-2006
Posts: 1442
From: Italia

@tlosm


Quote:
Quake sdl on Aros VPC 320x240 = 117 fps 640x480 54fps :) if you consider on Xe 933 i have 47 , on Pegasos 2 1266ghz 63 and 61 on Sam 460 i think is good :P

(note sdl are totally software on Vpc)


It's a good result.

Last edited by Seiya on 01-Nov-2014 at 11:29 PM.

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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 1-Nov-2014 23:30:09
#238 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seiya

yes better than XP or other Windows os on Vpc

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 1-Nov-2014 23:42:12
#239 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@seya

On aros im facing a strange thing i cant see switch setting for mame roms or on fpse when i change the configs is slow ... i dont know if it is because vpc or there is something to fix in icaros... plus some time it is asking for "volume 2"...

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A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
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tlosm 
Re: Emulation: A passion
Posted on 2-Nov-2014 10:27:55
#240 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Jul-2012
Posts: 2734
From: Amiga land

@Seya for your gfx stats

Quake Sdl Aros on Vpc

320x240 = 117.3 fps
640x480= 53.8 fps
800x600= 37.2 fps
1024x768= (quake auto exit?)

I can play fast and smoot without frame skipping FPSE games at 800x600
With mame because resizing of game video to fit screen is need to auto frameskip the games ... i dont have the preference for change it to native size of the game and made more tests

edit: i made mame work with native rom size and running really good :) I had been test some roms who was gave me not good performance on my Pegasos2 1266 and last mame (bonze adventure) and are running great :)

@pavlor
this is doom time demo
2134 gametics in 215 realtics 347 fps

Last edited by tlosm on 02-Nov-2014 at 11:44 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 02-Nov-2014 at 11:08 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 02-Nov-2014 at 10:38 AM.
Last edited by tlosm on 02-Nov-2014 at 10:37 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

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