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      /  WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
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terminills 
WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 1-Aug-2014 17:32:57
#1 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1387
From: Unknown

After so much off topic in the spotify thread I thought it would best to start a new thread for this.

It seems after many years of Toni saying no to PowerPC emulation he's at least willing to work on it.



WinUAE 2.8.2 Beta 6 Change log

PowerPC Update

Powerpc showing Life

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PG 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 1-Aug-2014 18:05:21
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 114
From: Norway

@terminills

Thanks. :) This will be very interesting to follow.

Also written about it here:

Adding Amiga PPC support at Old School Game Blog

Last edited by PG on 01-Aug-2014 at 06:15 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 1-Aug-2014 18:12:44
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@terminills

I see Toni uses PearPC core for PowerPC CPU emulation. How fast is that? I found only some numbers from 2004 (1/40 of native performance - that would be close to SAM440 performance on not that recent Core i5).

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 1-Aug-2014 18:18:52
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@pavlor
It is not Bad. My g2030 reaches 1.4ghz g4 Performance.
With jit.

The 1/40 is based on the First jit Release and secondly misinterpreted by Most People.
It is not 3000/40mhz but more about real execution Speed.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Aug-2014 at 06:22 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 01-Aug-2014 at 06:19 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 1-Aug-2014 18:30:02
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:
It is not Bad. My g2030 reaches 1.4ghz g4 Performance.


1/9 of native performance (if my estimates are right).

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 1-Aug-2014 20:58:58
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@phoenixkonsole

That is not bad if it is true but it might be long road until it boots to any PPC native OS.

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wawa 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 1-Aug-2014 21:39:59
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6255
From: Unknown

@itix

better never than late imho.

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Hypex 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 16:20:30
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 9718
From: Greensborough, Australia

@terminills

I wonder if it will use a JIT? Well in any case this could be the end of the road for OS4 machines. Once a PC can emulate OS4 that's it. I expected one day this would be coming,

Now all we need is to merge it with OS4 PPC JIT code for a bit of transparency so we can run Fusion with OS4. And then extend that idea to run OSX on top of OS4!

What a vivid imagination!

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hotrod 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 16:51:47
#9 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2778
From: Stockholm, Sweden

@Hypex

I don't know if I'm right or wrong but the feeling that I've had for some time now is that things are not going as Hyperion had hoped or wanted it to. I might be completely wrong so don't be mad if I am, it's just a feeling. What I'm thinking is that maybe they've contacted him and wanted this since he said that it would never happen but suddenly changed his mind? It would make sense because AOS isn't gaining new people.

Just a thought. If it's good or bad I don't know but "I got a bad feeling about this".

Last edited by hotrod on 02-Aug-2014 at 04:53 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 17:03:13
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@hotrod

I think Toni just wanted new challenge.


He has no experience with PowerPC emulation, so it may take some until we see result, if any.

I think such possible support for OS4 in WinUAE is not bad idea - it would be limited by design (no compositing, no 3D, single core only etc.), but still good enough for basic use. WinUAE has splendid guest/host integration (fast GFX, network, filesystem), it could be even better basis for OS4 emulator than QEMU.

If emulated CPU is fast enough (and it seems PearPC core is), it would certainly destroy low-end OS4 hardware market. However, X1000/X5000 market will be not affected and emulated solution is probably best choice for notebook.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 17:07:16
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@pavlor
Of course X1000/X5000 market will be affected since you have no "PRO application" where you could need more power than what a emulated PPC offers (remember the price and the doubling of performance in i386/ARM land year by year. And if the day comes I will be the first who adds PPC Amiga emulation to AEROS : )

EDIT:
The only way to enhance the ppc HW situation is to offer attractive financing schemes.
So I, for example, would like to offer AmigaOS+SAM or X1000 on a leasing scheme.

And maybe a new very low-cost device could help. Take EFIKA as base and ask bplan (guys who know what to do).

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Aug-2014 at 05:10 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 17:09:52
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

People who buy X1000 want most powerful "Amiga" hardware with AmigaOS, UAE (or emulation in general) is not something attractive for them.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 17:11:02
#13 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@pavlor
Again: There is no choice yet.
If the choice would be there, they would buy a 12core XEON in sexy aluminum running AEROS with IcAROS on 1 desktop, Broadway on another one, AmigaOS 3 on desktop 3 and AmigaOS 4 on desktop 4.

Than switching in 3D between them:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9m2CLx2-SM

Just for the aaahhhh and ohhhhs : )

Running AROS on i386 is the fastest Amiga experience btw.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Aug-2014 at 05:14 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Aug-2014 at 05:13 PM.

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 18:48:19
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@hotrod

Toni Wilen said on EAB that running OS3 PPC software is his target. I dont think there is any Hyperion involvement.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 20:17:08
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

Quote:
There is no choice yet.


People looking for OS4 can choose between A1-500 (1000 USD) and A1-X1000 (3000 USD).

No-name computer (although realy powerful) certainly isn´t interesting for people buying X1000.

Quote:
Running AROS on i386 is the fastest Amiga experience btw.


I still prefer my OS3.x in WinUAE.

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itix 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 20:40:21
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@pavlor

Quote:

No-name computer (although realy powerful) certainly isn´t interesting for people buying X1000.


You can always buy Apple branded computer. I think their brand is better than AmigaOne brand and is soon capable to run OS4

Quote:

I still prefer my OS3.x in WinUAE.


Perhaps soon you dump your OS 3.x setup and start running OS4?

Last edited by itix on 02-Aug-2014 at 08:44 PM.
Last edited by itix on 02-Aug-2014 at 08:42 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 21:04:37
#17 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@itix

Quote:
I think their brand is better than AmigaOne brand


For Amiga user? I don´t think so.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 21:16:56
#18 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@pavlor
I meant there was no option to buy a fast PC to run OS4 yet.
Take this:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5-2697+v2+%40+2.70GHz&id=2009

Here is a benchmark result from dolphin running povray

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AunYlOAfGABxdFQ0UzJyTFAxbzZhYWtGcGwySlRFa1E#gid=0

The i7 in that test has only 70% as much grunt as the XEON.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Aug-2014 at 09:21 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Aug-2014 at 09:20 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Aug-2014 at 09:17 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 21:46:21
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9081
From: Unknown

@phoenixkonsole

If I read that Povray benchmark right, Dolphin delivers 1/10 of native performance. Similar to PearPC. Not bad.

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phoenixkonsole 
Re: WinUAE with Cyberstorm Emulation.
Posted on 2-Aug-2014 21:56:16
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Nov-2009
Posts: 1758
From: Unknown

@pavlor
Yep.. now the question is when offers 1/10 more value than the real thing.

If i multiplicate 729*3(because it was nearly 3 times faster) i get roughly 2.2GHZ g3 with a i7 4790k.

The Wii uses a similar to ATI9250 GPU which should come handy.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 02-Aug-2014 at 09:57 PM.

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